Have Your Say: Wet Weather Sim Racing - Is It Even Necessary?
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M-Bimmer
WhAt GoEs ArOuNd CoMeS ArOuNd
Keeping it honest...
Rain yes definelty. there are intermediates and full wets tyres in F1 for a reason as an example.
But having thunderstorms/fog is nonesense. Races in real life are red flagged for a reason.
Having snow/ice in titles that are not for rally is plain stupid. There is no STCC in the winter for a reason for example.
Still don't mind a track to do some hotlapping on with some (un)studded tyres but that's it.
(We have silverstone, paul ricard, Nurburgring replicas on ice among other tracks in the north of Sweden)
Rain yes definelty. there are intermediates and full wets tyres in F1 for a reason as an example.
But having thunderstorms/fog is nonesense. Races in real life are red flagged for a reason.
Having snow/ice in titles that are not for rally is plain stupid. There is no STCC in the winter for a reason for example.
Still don't mind a track to do some hotlapping on with some (un)studded tyres but that's it.
(We have silverstone, paul ricard, Nurburgring replicas on ice among other tracks in the north of Sweden)
Last edited:
Davide Nativo
Premium
How much Kunos paid you to ask this question? 
*duck and cover*
*duck and cover*Immersion...I had a dream some days ago. I shook hands with an engineer talked to other crew members. It was like I had been in a film or something. Then and sat into the car and went to the track. After a few laps I came back into the pits and discussed the laps with the engineer. Then I put down the VR headset...and I was shocked by the fact that the events were not real and that was just a simulation. It would be nice if the technology was that advanced.
Rain is probably my favorite thing in sims. F1 2010 was the first game, that I feel, really started to nail rain racing down. Dynamic racing line, puddles, detailed graphics... And then Project CARS came along and did it much better. If Assetto 2, Reizza 2018, etc, don't have rain, I will be seriously disappointed.
This is not even a question. Dynamic weather condition are part of a simulator.
The reason why I race racing sims for many years is not to have a pretty picture of blue skies and sunshine but to get as close as possible in conditions to actually racing the real thing.
This covers EVERY aspect of racing - getting informed about the weather forecast, studying and planning options for different conditions with your setups and race strategy are all part of that.
The exhilaration when during a race the conditions change, taking risks with your strategy and tire choices that pay off is currently completely missing in the major racing sims.
We had this already back a few years with some major racing simulators (several high end F1 sims and of course GTR2 come to mind).
To me it really is not how pretty particle effects and window textures can be but the effects on grip, a dynamic racing line and visibility. If those points can be simulated well enough to be realistic we should have weather effects.
My biggest hope for Project Cars 2 is not necessarily that it offers something I can enjoy personally (I will probably end up buying it at some point or another anyway), but that it actually turns out to be reasonably competent in physics and VERY successful commercially.
Reason for this hope of mine is really only that it might be an important influencer to awake more interest in dynamic track and weather conditions.
It is not about how many vehicles or tracks a simulator has at day 1 - it is about how close it gets to the real thing.
I only wish we will soon enough a version / successor of Assetto Corsa that will have convincing dynamic lighting (with day/night transitions) and dynamic weather conditions.
Here is also why I have high hopes for rFactor2 to developing a more competent set of original content and refine it's weather system as rF2 is currently the closest sim we have that has the potential to actually bring a combination of well executed physics, good enough graphics, day/night and basic weather simulation.
It just finally needs a strong hand at finishing the product.
At some point in history of simracing some truly basic and absolutely essental features of simulators have been silently cut and the community culture has somehow generally accepted those features to not be as important any longer as more cars, more tracks, more DLCs, ...
It would have been absolutely unthinkable for a major F1 sim in the late 1990's to omit dynamic weather conditions, full pitstops, tire compounds, flag and penalty systems, ...
It has somehow become a new normal that some racing sim makers boast with a proud chest and big fanfare to "introduce" flags or different tire compounds after being on the market with their product FOR YEARS.
This is really laughable to be honest.
Imagine you buy a brand new BMW, finding it is missing the passenger seat and rear bench.
You scratch your head, then after a few months of aggravation and car forum posts you find out that other BMW owners have bolted down anything from garden chairs to beer kegs to their cars interior to transport more than one person.
Then 5 years into ownership and yourself having pretty much found comfort with the fact that your BMW runs with only one seat, one garden chair, a beer keg and a bean bag you get a newsletter mail from your local dealership that they offer a NEWLY developed upgrade for your car at cost "passenger seat package" while the car owners forums are still holding discussions about the validity of passenger seats.
Yes we bloody need weather. It belongs into simulators. And yes, I will absolutely enjoy hours and hours of racing Porsche 911 RSR 3.0 in freezing cold, foggy, windy downpours at the Nordschleife - it may not look inviting and the thought about all the discomfort of constant rain at a racetrack may bring negative thoughts back, but it will be simulating and I will love it.
The reason why I race racing sims for many years is not to have a pretty picture of blue skies and sunshine but to get as close as possible in conditions to actually racing the real thing.
This covers EVERY aspect of racing - getting informed about the weather forecast, studying and planning options for different conditions with your setups and race strategy are all part of that.
The exhilaration when during a race the conditions change, taking risks with your strategy and tire choices that pay off is currently completely missing in the major racing sims.
We had this already back a few years with some major racing simulators (several high end F1 sims and of course GTR2 come to mind).
To me it really is not how pretty particle effects and window textures can be but the effects on grip, a dynamic racing line and visibility. If those points can be simulated well enough to be realistic we should have weather effects.
My biggest hope for Project Cars 2 is not necessarily that it offers something I can enjoy personally (I will probably end up buying it at some point or another anyway), but that it actually turns out to be reasonably competent in physics and VERY successful commercially.
Reason for this hope of mine is really only that it might be an important influencer to awake more interest in dynamic track and weather conditions.
It is not about how many vehicles or tracks a simulator has at day 1 - it is about how close it gets to the real thing.
I only wish we will soon enough a version / successor of Assetto Corsa that will have convincing dynamic lighting (with day/night transitions) and dynamic weather conditions.
Here is also why I have high hopes for rFactor2 to developing a more competent set of original content and refine it's weather system as rF2 is currently the closest sim we have that has the potential to actually bring a combination of well executed physics, good enough graphics, day/night and basic weather simulation.
It just finally needs a strong hand at finishing the product.
At some point in history of simracing some truly basic and absolutely essental features of simulators have been silently cut and the community culture has somehow generally accepted those features to not be as important any longer as more cars, more tracks, more DLCs, ...
It would have been absolutely unthinkable for a major F1 sim in the late 1990's to omit dynamic weather conditions, full pitstops, tire compounds, flag and penalty systems, ...
It has somehow become a new normal that some racing sim makers boast with a proud chest and big fanfare to "introduce" flags or different tire compounds after being on the market with their product FOR YEARS.
This is really laughable to be honest.
Imagine you buy a brand new BMW, finding it is missing the passenger seat and rear bench.
You scratch your head, then after a few months of aggravation and car forum posts you find out that other BMW owners have bolted down anything from garden chairs to beer kegs to their cars interior to transport more than one person.
Then 5 years into ownership and yourself having pretty much found comfort with the fact that your BMW runs with only one seat, one garden chair, a beer keg and a bean bag you get a newsletter mail from your local dealership that they offer a NEWLY developed upgrade for your car at cost "passenger seat package" while the car owners forums are still holding discussions about the validity of passenger seats.
Yes we bloody need weather. It belongs into simulators. And yes, I will absolutely enjoy hours and hours of racing Porsche 911 RSR 3.0 in freezing cold, foggy, windy downpours at the Nordschleife - it may not look inviting and the thought about all the discomfort of constant rain at a racetrack may bring negative thoughts back, but it will be simulating and I will love it.
I don't currently race online so much so I can't speak to that side of things (although I can totally imagine the utterly careless of some drivers) but as far as single player and AI races go, variation in race conditions are definitely welcome.
The challenge of deciding when to pit pull the trigger and switch to slicks or wets depending on the weather changes is a nice addition to the excitement of a race but I think it is all dependant on how much individual players are willing to suck it up and race on rather than quit races when things go wrong.
The challenge of deciding when to pit pull the trigger and switch to slicks or wets depending on the weather changes is a nice addition to the excitement of a race but I think it is all dependant on how much individual players are willing to suck it up and race on rather than quit races when things go wrong.
Yes yes yes, rain is a must have in sim racing... Most of the servers have almost static weather on rF2, and not enough are using all the fun of changing visibility and grip while racing !! Too Bad, cause all these changes are part of racing !!
Nice to see most answers are in favor of yes....this should not even be a question to be honest....we've being racing hot lappers for years now pretending their a full sims, they are not. Weather and ever changing track conditions and time of day are part of a simulator. If Pcars2 got their handling and force feedback this time they will have a clear advantage over simulators that don't.
I agree with everything you said above, but...
I believe dynamic weather is something fantastic to "play with".
It adds realism, because it happens in real life as well to have random weather conditions to face during a race weekend.
We want a sim, don't we? Therefore we need also dynamic weather conditions.
Moreover, I think replays are something as cool as a race.
Since Grand Prix series by Geoff Crammond, I loved to watch replays after race or right after amazing moments. They add immersion as well, using as seen on TV replay cams.
I wouldn't understimate animated Pit Crews. I love to see everything that I can see in real life, during a race weekend.
I don't have VR glasses but, I can tell you using EDTracker 2 to move my head, is something amazing!
Last but not least, 3D trees (static) are very welcome.
Essential - no. AC is the obvious example that not having wet weather is not a barrier to popularity and indeed has its roots in Kunos experience of adding rain to NKpro which had little impact on sales, especially compared to the impact on sales of adding their first licensed car.
Desirable - yes. As others have said we are in theory at least trying to simulate reality and most racing series do race in the rain. Indeed the impact of rain usually makes the racing much more interesting from a spectators point of view if not neccessarily from the drivers point of view.
I don't agree that wet weather simulation has to be perfect or it is best omitted. No aspect of simulation is perfect - it is all simplified/approximated. Damage is an obvious example - it is clearly very simplified compared to reality in most sims but I don't see people suggesting sims shouldn't include damage unless its perfect. Simplified simulation of damage is better than no damage. Aerodynamics is another example - it is simplified compared to reality but no one suggests it should be omitted.
Desirable - yes. As others have said we are in theory at least trying to simulate reality and most racing series do race in the rain. Indeed the impact of rain usually makes the racing much more interesting from a spectators point of view if not neccessarily from the drivers point of view.
I don't agree that wet weather simulation has to be perfect or it is best omitted. No aspect of simulation is perfect - it is all simplified/approximated. Damage is an obvious example - it is clearly very simplified compared to reality in most sims but I don't see people suggesting sims shouldn't include damage unless its perfect. Simplified simulation of damage is better than no damage. Aerodynamics is another example - it is simplified compared to reality but no one suggests it should be omitted.
It's a good feature, but when the physics are completely messed up, what is the point?
Imo weather in sims is a bare necessity.
rF2 has rain, but sadly it is not very well implemented.
AC does not, but some modders are trying to mimic it, not very good either, but it shows that people do want it.
No doubt: rain is a must in a proper sim if you want to experience the whole thing.
PCars already was the best at that, pCars2 is even better.
rF2 has rain, but sadly it is not very well implemented.
AC does not, but some modders are trying to mimic it, not very good either, but it shows that people do want it.
No doubt: rain is a must in a proper sim if you want to experience the whole thing.
PCars already was the best at that, pCars2 is even better.
I like the challenge and driving on dry tarmac with only tyre wear as a dynamic condition starts getting boring for me nowadays, so I prefer cars that are at least a handful to drive. But I see enough people struggling with "the basics" like racing lines, breaking points, weight transfer, saving a spin like I did in the past. Dynamic weather is like the hardcore mode in a shooter. It's not for everybody, but when the nazis or aliens can't kill you anymore you just need it. But I'm bad with shooters and "normal" difficulty is frustrating enough for me.
Is your sim a racing sim? Then yes
Is your sim nothing more than a driving sim? Then this goes to dev choice if they want to simulate rain driving or not.
IMO whenever you have endurance cars the minimum you MUST offer is day/night cycles, but yes if you want to sell people a racing sim rain is mandatory. But then so is many other things that are part of a real life race event but are not being covered in sim tittles (in none of them, including PC2)... the lack of immersion sucks so bad, they are all equaly crap in this aspect.
Is your sim nothing more than a driving sim? Then this goes to dev choice if they want to simulate rain driving or not.
IMO whenever you have endurance cars the minimum you MUST offer is day/night cycles, but yes if you want to sell people a racing sim rain is mandatory. But then so is many other things that are part of a real life race event but are not being covered in sim tittles (in none of them, including PC2)... the lack of immersion sucks so bad, they are all equaly crap in this aspect.
Totally not necessary. A Sim is a game which has its features as close as possible to the reality. Just cause Forza has rain and day/night transition it doesnt mean its a Sim. Basically every hardcore Sim you can find on the market hasnt got these features and is still considered realistic.
Stuart Gillard
Sir Ropey
In my own opinion a racing simulator isn't a complete simulator without all real world weather, and I'm not just talking rain but also things like fog which does sometimes have just as much impact on visibility as the spray from a rain soaked track without the impact on grip and so on. There is also one other things which is also just as important as weather in my opinion and that is a good day and night cycle, especially in 6/12/24 hour races.
This is what makes a racing simulator a complete racing simulator for me as well as the other usually inclusions, a few have tried with weather and day and night cycles like rFactor 2 and pCars with pCars probably having the best implementation of this however rFactor 2 had the much much better physics. Then you have AC with some weather options such as fog, the option to race at certain times of the day with time progression into dusk and so on and then others such as RaceRoom having just static dry weather really and not a lot to offer in that area but with very good physics and sounds etc.
One thing to remember though is a lot of what is possible in any given racing sim is limited by the game engine and what it is able to support.
Many racing sims have a mix of the above but I don't think there has been one yet which has had them all and done it well in every area, and the question is will we ever get to that place, I personally think we will and we're almost there.
Sim racing is becoming more and more popular as times goes on. With sim racers now demanding more realism and competition than ever especially with growing e-sports and such, its something developers have now go to start taking seriously and implementing for their racing sim to be a leading title and shine amongst all those available.
This is what makes a racing simulator a complete racing simulator for me as well as the other usually inclusions, a few have tried with weather and day and night cycles like rFactor 2 and pCars with pCars probably having the best implementation of this however rFactor 2 had the much much better physics. Then you have AC with some weather options such as fog, the option to race at certain times of the day with time progression into dusk and so on and then others such as RaceRoom having just static dry weather really and not a lot to offer in that area but with very good physics and sounds etc.
One thing to remember though is a lot of what is possible in any given racing sim is limited by the game engine and what it is able to support.
Many racing sims have a mix of the above but I don't think there has been one yet which has had them all and done it well in every area, and the question is will we ever get to that place, I personally think we will and we're almost there.
Sim racing is becoming more and more popular as times goes on. With sim racers now demanding more realism and competition than ever especially with growing e-sports and such, its something developers have now go to start taking seriously and implementing for their racing sim to be a leading title and shine amongst all those available.
