Have Your Say: Can Women be Competitive in Modern Formula One Racing?

[mantasisg]

Yesterday in simchampionship in my country, four people from the crowd were chosen to participate in spectators race, and one of them was a girl. And she won that race. All of them were unexperienced. I think it shows that girls can be good.

 

[Damage Inc]

I don't believe it has gone off topic, but I'm not going to argue with someone who genuinely thinks that men and women are treated equally in this regard. You only need to look around you to know that they aren't. And I never said breasts are genitalia, but you suggested that men and women are treated equally in GoT. If you're only talking about topless men, then it's pretty poor if you think a man and woman being topless is the same. Talking about sex, you're not even allowed to show the same things on TV. Man that's wonderfully equal.

I think it has everything to do with motorsport, because I see motorsport displaying the same problems I see in the rest of the world. We've decided to use women as props for our sport. And that simply is not ok. I've given you a real world example of that turning women away from motorsport, and we've seen studies of it too. The argument of "it's there choice" is utterly laughable, as is the argument (you didn't make this one, but others have), that you're doing them out of a job. Firmly overestimating what people get paid if you think someone is living off of a couple of BTCC race weekends a year. BTCC mechanics are often doing multiple jobs, but the grid girl is making a living? Ok.

I personally am not ok with telling women there place at a motorsport event is to be quiet and hold a sign. I prefer my women as people, not props. If you're ok with that, then that's fine, but that's a reason you won't see women taking up the sport at the same rate as men. We tell them it is not their place early on, through grid girls, through discouraging them, and through treating them differently. Women are not treated equally in our sport, and I am not ok with that. You can't have it both ways.

To answer the original question again - of course women can do well in F1, and motorsport. Some do. But the numbers of women will always be less whilst we have a hostile sport to women, with childish male lust attitudes. With lower numbers, you'll never get the same success rate or chance, through pure maths.

I suspect like me, you're probably getting a bit tired of arguing with me, so we can call it quits if you want? I respect your opinion but completely disagree, and I suspect you'll never agree with me.

Sigh at no point did I say men and women are treated equally, what I am saying is that it's becoming more equal in both directions, i.e. men ARE being objectified more and people are still trying to stop female objectification...Either objectifying ANY sex is wrong or it's ok, do not pick and choose as that is NOT equality.

You never directly said breast are genitalia yet you did directly compare breast to a mans erect genitalia...so I pointed out how wrong that was. In GOT men get the breasts and women (and gays) get the cocks. Have you seen the South Park piss take of GOT? weiner floppy weiner?

My wife reminded me of adverts where a woman dropped a fork on the floor to oogle a waiters arse and one where a man was in a shower and women pinched his towel forcing him to come out of the shower room nude. (trust my wife to remember that LOL).

Stopping grid girls won't do them out of jobs because they are professional models and do other things as well. Because they chose that profession and I believe it pays really good. Hell if I could do a job that only required me to stand around and smile I'd do it in an instant!!! Not sure if I look good enough in heals and lycra though!

Also If women are "put off" just by grid girls then they arn't mentally tough enough to compete in the motorsport world.

Also why is it "childish" to be attracted to a women physically? That IMO is more about being an adult.

last thing, I do think it's daft that people will moan about this sort of thing yet ignore that Religion based maltreatment of girls and women is far far FAR worse.

But yup we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

This is one of the most hilarious post`s I have ever seen. You seem to lack experience of the opposite sex and as father of 4 girls, two competing in the top level and also having a wife who is a former athlete this is no problem at all

Thanks for correcting my misconception through your vast experience on the female species. You are right by the way, I am a single man with only several "experiences" with them.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

Charlie Kimbal can race with diabetes, and Mark Webber can throw up in his helmet and continue, but if a woman has a period she can't? Let's get a bloody grip here.

Don't make my post dramatic please. Having a period simply gives a disadvantage. What if Webber had to race while vomiting in nearly half of the races in his career?

 

[Akra]

It is a disadvantage, but plenty of people have disadvantages. Disabilities, too large, too fat, too tall, blind in one eye, colour blind, dyslexic, poor...."black", according to Lewis Hamiltons sense of humour. The list is endless. Most of those will have a bigger effect than periods. Most disadvantages are permanant too. You're not going to regain sight in your eye, you won't lose height. Granted you can lose weight...and if you're Michael Jackson you might even change race.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

It is a disadvantage, but plenty of people have disadvantages. Disabilities, too large, too fat, too tall, blind in one eye, colour blind, dyslexic, poor....

You prove my point, none of them can compete at the top level of motorsports.

 

[Akra]

You prove my point, none of them can compete at the top level of motorsports.

Really? Charlie Kimball competes in the top level in American motorsport. Justin Wilson was a giant and raced in F1 and IndyCar. Hulk is 6ft tall and at a disadvantage, competes in F1 and won Le Mans. Matt Neal, multiple touring car champion. Montoya was never slim, and he raced in F1, and then competed in the top level of stock car racing, and then won the Indy 500 as a bit of a large man. Tony Stewart liked his cheeseburgers, won a few of those NASCAR things. Lord Drayson is blind in one eye, and won in Americas top sportscar series and competed in the top class at Le Mans. Dyslexic, that guy Lewis Hamilton is. I hear he's quite successful. That man with the tartan hat, Jackie - he was too.

None of them can compete at the top level? Seems a lot of them have been champions mate.

Maybe people refuse to accept this because it kinda kills the argument that only the greatest human beings alive could possibly race a car. I don't know. But motorsport is one of the few sports where disabilities and disadvantages can be overcome, and drivers can compete together, rather than separated out into gender, weights and height categories. We should celebrate that, rather than try and deny it to somehow big up our sport. Being a woman is not as big a disadvantage as most of the things I've listed. They can compete, if they want to. The question is why they don't want to.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

None of those guys are "too fat or too long" as you put it.

 

[Akra]

Nigel Mansell couldn't fit in a car only a year after winning races. JPM struggled to fit in his new DW12. Justin Wilson couldn't drive certain chassis during his early years due to his height, and struggled to get a sportscar that he could compete in. Lord Drayson was denied a racing license and had to fight for the license to race at Le Mans. There's plenty of times these have been restrictive to the driver and had to be overcome.

If you want to argue semantics rather than the point, then that's fine. However the claim that a womans period would somehow discount them when male racing drivers have overcome a wide variety of disadvantages is ridiculous. I'm also assuming that all the current racing drivers must not have periods to be able to compete? What about other sports? Why do we have sports women in every other sport, despite periods?

It's a non-issue. Just like the rest of the physical excuses.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

I'm also assuming that all the current racing drivers must not have periods to be able to compete? What about other sports? Why do we have sports women in every other sport, despite periods?

There is a reason why most sports have man/woman categorizations. Mouton was 1 in 1000s. Yes, she proves that there can be fast female racers, but in F1, in the top of motorsports? I think not.

 

[AndrewBo]

Okay, we got it now........
Please keep the thread friendly. Thank you.

 

[Gary Ludlum]

Okay, we got it now........
Please keep the thread friendly. Thank you.

I am friendly. And he is too. We are just having a civilized banter.

 

[AndrewBo]

I know.

 

[Akra]

I agree, there certainly is no hostility in these posts. Lack of emojis does make it look a bit harsh though, agreed.

However I'm not going to continue on with the banter, because if I;m honest, I hate when people cherry pick quotes. You said periods would be an issue, I disagreed and provided some pretty good evidence IMO of males overcoming bigger issues. I do not see periods as an issue for the same reason I do not see physical attributes really being an issue. Common sense and some basic observation skills will tell you that. If you continue to disagree that's fine, I respect your opinion but completely disagree.

 

[Damage Inc]

Personally from experience of dealing with my wife's mood changes at that time I'd say a woman at that point of the month would probably get the extra aggression boost she'd need! It's never healthy for a bloke to irritate his wife at that time.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

If Serena Williams can win Wimbledon whilst pregnant, I don't see why any women can't deal with something they've been dealing with since their teens in order to perform, just like all the women's athletes and racers thus far have already done.

 

[bsmooth]

I'm going to take a different tact here, yes anyone can compete, anyone at all. Yet I wonder about something that can't really be proven one way or the other, and it comes down to decision making, and how differently men and woman make actual decisions. Everyone whos driven out there knows what I mean, and I mean everyday driving, not just racing. Ladies, woman just plain drive differently, not better or worse, just different, and more often times than not its based on making quick decisions.
Its just what I see every single day when I'm driving. You can almost tell when you see a car and what it does who's driving.
This may sound like a sexist remark, but its based on real world everyday experiences.
Whatever woman who does break into racing and makes a mark for herself will have overcome many obstacles on her way there, so she'll deserve every accolade thats coming to her.

 

[Akra]

I'm going to take a different tact here, yes anyone can compete, anyone at all. Yet I wonder about something that can't really be proven one way or the other, and it comes down to decision making, and how differently men and woman make actual decisions. Everyone whos driven out there knows what I mean, and I mean everyday driving, not just racing. Ladies, woman just plain drive differently, not better or worse, just different, and more often times than not its based on making quick decisions.
Its just what I see every single day when I'm driving. You can almost tell when you see a car and what it does who's driving.
This may sound like a sexist remark, but its based on real world everyday experiences.
Whatever woman who does break into racing and makes a mark for herself will have overcome many obstacles on her way there, so she'll deserve every accolade thats coming to her.

I agree with this although it isn't always just quick decisions, it's a completely different style even under no pressure. Not saying men are better or worse, but men certainly make more overtakes on country roads (my road car is not fast). A female driver is more likely to stay behind me. Neither is better or worse, or more dangerous or whatever, just different.

Also tend to find that on country roads a woman will let off the throttle earlier and brake less than a man, whilst a man will drive deeper into a corner before braking. Again, not saying the man was more dangerous, as it's always well within safe limits, but they are certainly different. If you were desperate you could argue the womans way of driving in this case will be better for the car, but that's clutching at straws.

When it comes to dangers, I certainly do see some overly aggressive driving by men on public roads. But I also see a lot more mobile phone use by women (in the UK it is illegal, with tougher fines now, to use a mobile phone without a hands free kit). In these limited cases, it probably balances out.

 

[Austin Ogonoski]

Ayy, lots of sub-topics to explore on this one.

Women can physically handle formula one cars, no question about that. Graham Rahal's wife Courtney Force has an insane workout schedule just for NHRA drag racing, and I'd attribute his recent indycar success to her forcing him to have some sort of workout routine (in Instagram pics from a few years ago you can see him sporting a bit of a belly, that seems to have changed). I can easily see another woman taking up this same sort of initiative had they been placed on a Formula One team with an actual spot on the grid.

But the question is can women be competitive in Formula One and I just don't think so. The decision making process between males and females is just so fundamentally different. Women are very much driven by emotions whereas men make decisions based on logic and reason. As a race car driver you can't let things get to you under the helmet when battling wheel to wheel against another opponent, and that's where women would typically struggle because they are PRONE TO THIS. A good example of this would be Danica Patrick, who throughout her career (Indy & Cup) has been known for temper tantrums, petty rivalries, her inability to drive in a pack, and goofy attempts at revenge on the other drivers for doing literally nothing to her in the first place. That's what you get with a female on the grid in a top level ride.

But this is also why women do very well in drag racing (Muldowney, Enders, Pritchett, A/B/C Force) and rally (Muton); there are no side by side opponents to battle and manipulate their emotions.

 

[Ghoults]

The decision making process between males and females is just so fundamentally different. Women are very much driven by emotions whereas men make decisions based on logic and reason.

citation needed although ... well whatever...