Have Your Say: Can Women be Competitive in Modern Formula One Racing?

[Bruce Banner]

Im pretty sure a woman could be competitive in F1 if she had the talent and was given a chance . There's always been this assumption in society and jokes about women being bad drivers when , to be honest , by far the worst drivers on the road are boy racers who have no regard for other drivers and are a danger to everybody ( including themselves ) ( sounds a bit like Pastor Maldonado like the previous guy said ) .

 

[Rob Musgrove]

The simple answer is yes - but not how it stands..

I have watched F1 Stock Cars and Ministox for many years and not one of the girls have gone on to bigger things.. yet there have been 1000's... it's because it's a sport not in the frame when someone is looking for talent.. yet they are in the cars from about 14 yrs old. They learn ever little bit as much as the lads and a lot are actually quicker.. I've seen a top 3 lockout..

but it's all ££££ / $$$$.. There is the talent around, but these girls not only have to go through the normal "Wrong" route of Karts to either hatchbacks or single seaters... and that is the only path.. it's not.. Rally X / Ministox and a few other series have a ton of female racers who shall never be picked up..

Have a look at the current line up and you'll see the amount of girls racing side by side with the boys.. http://www.nationalministoxclub.co.uk/page12.htm

4 out of the first 6 names are girls.

 

[Nevini]

Not a chance, simply not strong enough. Like saying can women play in the premiership. A woman will never ever win a F1 championship even if 21 of the 22 are woman.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

That coupled with the women with the best results on avg. raced in the 70's and 80's where the cars had way less driving aids, more power, and was generally more raw and harder to driver.

Wait? What? References? Last time I checked there were hardly any women in racing in both generations, and certainly not enough to necessitate that kind of quote.

*List of female drivers with better than average results from the 1900's until 70's and 80's (with one from the 90's)

Okay, so 5 women in the (distant) modern era. And that's all you could provide? How about in the past 10-20 years then? Not almost 40-50 years ago?

70's and 80's are almost 40-50 years ago, it's just what I said in my initial post.

 

[Jan Larsen]

Not a chance, simply not strong enough. Like saying can women play in the premiership. A woman will never ever win a F1 championship even if 21 of the 22 are woman.

Unless proven spectacularly otherwise, I agree. If you hear Hamilton panting on the radio, what chance will a woman have? Will unless she looks this though, but I doubt she would fit in the cockpit...

Joking aside, Danica is the slim hope women have a future in top level motorsport, but Indycar dosent have near the same downforce as F1. And theres no future female drivers on the horizon either.

 

[Damage Inc]

So out of interest I just went and looked at the 'pit babes thread' in the premium members forum.

Anyone who has access, just go and look at the last few pages, its discussion of 'cameltoes', asses and so on.

Until the Top Gear mentality is gone, there's going to be far less desire amongst women to be involved in the sport

Maybe women prefer it that way. They'll continue to run the world while all the little boys drive around in clrcles and giggle at photos of anatomy.

ahem, David Beckham and "golden balls".....women lust after male sporting figures, and often objectify them and their abs and arses. I won't even mention the "chipendales" or the coke adverts with the muscular men.

 

[Damage Inc]

Im pretty sure a woman could be competitive in F1 if she had the talent and was given a chance . There's always been this assumption in society and jokes about women being bad drivers when , to be honest , by far the worst drivers on the road are boy racers who have no regard for other drivers and are a danger to everybody ( including themselves ) ( sounds a bit like Pastor Maldonado like the previous guy said ) .

yeah but statistically the BEST drivers are men in their 40's.

women have less accidents but MORE per mile travelled, so even tho "statistically" they have less accidents they travel less so are more likely to have an accident.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

So out of interest I just went and looked at the 'pit babes thread' in the premium members forum.

Anyone who has access, just go and look at the last few pages, its discussion of 'cameltoes', asses and so on.

Until the Top Gear mentality is gone, there's going to be far less desire amongst women to be involved in the sport

I'm glad you mentioned Top Gear, as I forgot it had this segment (relevant bit starts at 1:22):

 

[Akra]

ahem, David Beckham and "golden balls".....women lust after male sporting figures, and often objectify them and their abs and arses. I won't even mention the "chipendales" or the coke adverts with the muscular men.

I'm not disagreeing, but if you need to go all the way back to the coke advert for an example, it kinda proves his point doesn't it? A couple of examples from decades ago? There's more naked women on display in a Game Of Thrones episode than there is guys in all TV shows combined.

Mind you I'm pretty sure if they raided old George RR Martins hard drive they'd find some questionable stuff.

Tell you what though, a good way of explaining if something is sexist or not, then just think about the same situation, but with races not genders. What if we only had a tiny amount of black racing drivers, but we exclusively used black people to hold up the pit signs? Holy sh*t that's a can of worms isn't it? What if black people were paid less? Oh dear...

But then again, we could always replace all the pit girls with pit guys and stick them in lyrca and get them to pout at the camera. We'll see how well that goes down.

 

[MoerasGrizzly]

Mind you I'm pretty sure if they raided old George RR Martins hard drive they'd find some questionable stuff.

Apperently George RR Martin is still using a DOS programme to write his books so I wouldn't count on it too much

 

[Akra]

Apperently George RR Martin is still using a DOS programme to write his books so I wouldn't count on it too much

Hey pixel porn can be illegal too!

 

[Ghoults]

Unless proven spectacularly otherwise, I agree. If you hear Hamilton panting on the radio, what chance will a woman have?

Hearing panting in the radio is more about where the microphone is placed than about actual physical stress (mic directly in front of the mouth so normal breathing is picked up by the mic). And how do you explain michelle mouton driving the group b cars and almost winning the championship back then? Long days with very little sleep driving hot racing cars one handed while doing thousands of gear changes every day and beating the top drivers of that era? Proves nothing? The drivers back then had personal massagers with them to help with the constant stresses with their shoulders and neck for example. And with that amount of power and turbo lag you needed to be 100% awake all the time. Lots of drivers made mistakes due to sheer exhaustion.

Some of the stages like Liamone-Suaricchio in corsica were over 50 miles long. Just to compare in 2016 the average length of one rally is about 2 to 4 hours. In 1983 the time was from 4 hours to 12 hours.

No driver in the last 20 years or so have had any physical issues in the race. Webber finished a race while puking and losing tons and tons of liquids, hamilton does not even carry drinks bottle in his car to save weight and verstappen also did australian gp without drinks bottle. F1 cars simply do not push the physical limits far enough for it to be an issue for any man or woman who bothers to train for it.

 

[Akra]

Lewis panting on the radio is more because he's a complete moron who decided he's a strong independent racing driver and he don't need no personal trainer, or drinks bottle. The only driver who goes without those, and the only driver who appeared to have any sort of issue.

 

[P*Funk]

Ashley Freiberg struggling to get an IMSA seat definitely makes me wonder how much the sport still needs to change. I suspect its to do with advertizing. Too few women watch the sport to make sponsors want to support enough of the existing female talent. A novelty act like Danica (from the perspective of the sponsors) probably is the exception that proves the rule.

Its a self fulfilling cycle unfortunately. Motorsport has always been about money and its always been an upper crust privileged sort of gig. I don't see that changing any time soon as as a result I don't see women breaking in even if more of them start trying to become drivers. Ultimately I think its the audience that's the limiting factor. Whatever changes will come very very slowly and I'm not thinking 10 years is even the start of the shift.

Discussing physical capability is just a non starter and anyone trying to argue this is remotely similar to tennis or footie is just having a laugh.

 

[Flammenjc]

Also Emma Kimilainen was getting good results in STCC when she was there, and Michelle Gatting was winning races in DTC in Denmark

 

[Damage Inc]

I'm not disagreeing, but if you need to go all the way back to the coke advert for an example, it kinda proves his point doesn't it? A couple of examples from decades ago? There's more naked women on display in a Game Of Thrones episode than there is guys in all TV shows combined.

Mind you I'm pretty sure if they raided old George RR Martins hard drive they'd find some questionable stuff.

Tell you what though, a good way of explaining if something is sexist or not, then just think about the same situation, but with races not genders. What if we only had a tiny amount of black racing drivers, but we exclusively used black people to hold up the pit signs? Holy sh*t that's a can of worms isn't it? What if black people were paid less? Oh dear...

But then again, we could always replace all the pit girls with pit guys and stick them in lyrca and get them to pout at the camera. We'll see how well that goes down.

erm in the UK the "coke" advert is alive and well, only this time it's a mother, daughter AND son lusting after the muscular male model. Yes a BRAND new male objectifying coke advert.

Game of Thrones proves MY point, there's an equal amount of todger in those.

And female models are paid considerably more in almost EVERY modelling industry than their male counterparts...so.....

Face it people it's a KNOWN advertising/marketing FACT...SEX sells, always has, always will. It's been biased in the past but is getting more equal now. It's just that sexual attraction for women is not visually based anywhere near as much as men.

Your analogy of using men the same way as women as pit girls will only attract gay men, most women don't like men portrayed in that manner, in fact I'd argue the DRIVERS themselves are lusted after by many women.

Don't forget that advertising and marketing is driven by results and what is not liked by the populace is ditched pretty fast.

 

[Akra]

So sex sells and women like a good naked diet coke man, but they don't like men portrayed in that manner? I'm not sure what you're point is as you appear to have argued against yourself. But so far we've only got diet coke. What about, oh I don't know, every other advert? Even holiday adverts spend half the time with a camera panning over a woman sunbathing in a bikini, and the BTCC camera man has an unhealthy fascination with grid girls to the point where he needs a restraining order

Note that showing male genitalia in an aroused state in illegal in most countries, so no, GoT spends the entire time getting tits out for the sake of showing off a woman but can't actually show a man in a similar state. Wonder who made those laws eh? Bet it wasn't a woman. Other shows such as American Horror Story are just as bad. Lets get some crotch in there!

You can even see it in the general entertainment industry. This phenomenon is even recognised, and called "something for the dads". The idea that a man couldn't possibly watch or enjoy a TV show without a woman standing as a prop. The man presents the show, but lets get as much flesh on show as possible. If we can have it so the woman doesn't even get to talk, that's even better. Dara O Briain did a fantastic sketch about it actually -

Sex sells, but that doesn't make it ok to decide a womans place is as an object before she is a person - and that's exactly what we do at motor racing events, and you can see it everywhere in society if you watch closely. You can deny it if you want and shout "DIET COKE MAN! DIET COKE MAN!", but it doesn't change anything.

How is this related to motorsport? Well if you produce an environment that is painted in such a way that a womans role is to hold a board and look pretty, then you're going to get less women interested in it. Since I value women as people in our society, I'm not ok with that.

 

[Damage Inc]

So sex sells and women like a good naked diet coke man, but they don't like men portrayed in that manner? I'm not sure what you're point is as you appear to have argued against yourself. But so far we've only got diet coke. What about, oh I don't know, every other advert? Even holiday adverts spend half the time with a camera panning over a woman sunbathing in a bikini, and the BTCC camera man has an unhealthy fascination with grid girls to the point where he needs a restraining order

Note that showing male genitalia in an aroused state in illegal in most countries, so no, GoT spends the entire time getting tits out for the sake of showing off a woman but can't actually show a man in a similar state. Wonder who made those laws eh? Bet it wasn't a woman. Other shows such as American Horror Story are just as bad. Lets get some crotch in there!

You can even see it in the general entertainment industry. This phenomenon is even recognised, and called "something for the dads". The idea that a man couldn't possibly watch or enjoy a TV show without a woman standing as a prop. The man presents the show, but lets get as much flesh on show as possible. If we can have it so the woman doesn't even get to talk, that's even better. Dara O Briain did a fantastic sketch about it actually -

Sex sells, but that doesn't make it ok to decide a womans place is as an object before she is a person - and that's exactly what we do at motor racing events, and you can see it everywhere in society if you watch closely. You can deny it if you want and shout "DIET COKE MAN! DIET COKE MAN!", but it doesn't change anything.

How is this related to motorsport? Well if you produce an environment that is painted in such a way that a womans role is to hold a board and look pretty, then you're going to get less women interested in it. Since I value women as people in our society, I'm not ok with that.

Um.....breast are breast, why do people think that equates to a "hard" manhood. Erect nipples? Well that happens in the cold too so no cigar. the ONLY thing that equates to an aroused male genitalia is aroused female genitalia and that does NOT include breasts. End of that argument.

Ok how about the constant "yoghurt" adverts in the UK depicting muscular men and even showing them less than intelligent with the "thick yoghurt" link? There's more, but I can't be arsed.

No I don't think most women would like to see a man prance about in tight lycra. Like I say advertisers and marketers have a pretty good idea what women like and that is not it. Otherwise every man in an advert would be wearing a mankini (shudders).

I'm not denying it happens, you seem to be denying the objectification of men is catching up FAST. Either BOTH are no go or BOTH are ok end of story, THAT's equality, but harping on about objectifying women whilst men are increasingly objectified (in the name of equality LOL) is that complete OPPOSITE of equality.

Then again why am I arguing the point with someone who thinks breast are genitalia?

Ultimately this has nothing to do with motorsport I wasn't the one who brought up grid girls. If people want Umbrella Fellas to go with the Brolly dollies then so be it. I don't give a butchers personally, but it sells the sport so is part of advertising and marketing. Also I don't understand why people need role models to decide if they can do something or not.....BE the one who paves the way, ignore the peripheral crap, but stop raining on someone elses parade. I'd imagine most female models LIKE being models, no-one puts a gun to their heads and says "DO THIS" (I admit there will be some pressurised and agree that is wrong and needs to be stopped).

So sorry to all that this has gone massively off topic.

 

[Akra]

Um.....breast are breast, why do people think that equates to a "hard" manhood. Erect nipples? Well that happens in the cold too so no cigar. the ONLY thing that equates to an aroused male genitalia is aroused female genitalia and that does NOT include breasts. End of that argument.

Ok how about the constant "yoghurt" adverts in the UK depicting muscular men and even showing them less than intelligent with the "thick yoghurt" link? There's more, but I can't be arsed.

No I don't think most women would like to see a man prance about in tight lycra. Like I say advertisers and marketers have a pretty good idea what women like and that is not it. Otherwise every man in an advert would be wearing a mankini (shudders).

I'm not denying it happens, you seem to be denying the objectification of men is catching up FAST. Either BOTH are no go or BOTH are ok end of story, THAT's equality, but harping on about objectifying women whilst men are increasingly objectified (in the name of equality LOL) is that complete OPPOSITE of equality.

Then again why am I arguing the point with someone who thinks breast are genitalia?

Ultimately this has nothing to do with motorsport I wasn't the one who brought up grid girls. If people want Umbrella Fellas to go with the Brolly dollies then so be it. I don't give a butchers personally, but it sells the sport so is part of advertising and marketing. Also I don't understand why people need role models to decide if they can do something or not.....BE the one who paves the way, ignore the peripheral crap, but stop raining on someone elses parade. I'd imagine most female models LIKE being models, no-one puts a gun to their heads and says "DO THIS" (I admit there will be some pressurised and agree that is wrong and needs to be stopped).

So sorry to all that this has gone massively off topic.

I don't believe it has gone off topic, but I'm not going to argue with someone who genuinely thinks that men and women are treated equally in this regard. You only need to look around you to know that they aren't. And I never said breasts are genitalia, but you suggested that men and women are treated equally in GoT. If you're only talking about topless men, then it's pretty poor if you think a man and woman being topless is the same. Talking about sex, you're not even allowed to show the same things on TV. Man that's wonderfully equal.

I think it has everything to do with motorsport, because I see motorsport displaying the same problems I see in the rest of the world. We've decided to use women as props for our sport. And that simply is not ok. I've given you a real world example of that turning women away from motorsport, and we've seen studies of it too. The argument of "it's there choice" is utterly laughable, as is the argument (you didn't make this one, but others have), that you're doing them out of a job. Firmly overestimating what people get paid if you think someone is living off of a couple of BTCC race weekends a year. BTCC mechanics are often doing multiple jobs, but the grid girl is making a living? Ok.

I personally am not ok with telling women there place at a motorsport event is to be quiet and hold a sign. I prefer my women as people, not props. If you're ok with that, then that's fine, but that's a reason you won't see women taking up the sport at the same rate as men. We tell them it is not their place early on, through grid girls, through discouraging them, and through treating them differently. Women are not treated equally in our sport, and I am not ok with that. You can't have it both ways.

To answer the original question again - of course women can do well in F1, and motorsport. Some do. But the numbers of women will always be less whilst we have a hostile sport to women, with childish male lust attitudes. With lower numbers, you'll never get the same success rate or chance, through pure maths.

I suspect like me, you're probably getting a bit tired of arguing with me, so we can call it quits if you want? I respect your opinion but completely disagree, and I suspect you'll never agree with me.

 

[Kevin Pheiffer]

Well, Desiree Wilson in a saloon car at cota.....she looks pretty comfortable I think. South African BTW, same as me.