GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[jgf]

Whilst I agree with your policy, you are limiting yourself to old stuff these days. As a retro gamer and die hard PC enthusiast gamer since my first 386 pc (and old Amigas, C64's etc) I love the old stuff but all the new PC games are distribution systems that require Steam, Origin etc and are mainly needing to connect to the servers for playing single player and multiplayer. And hence you are going to miss out on some great games.

Lol, I'm missing nothing. The current generation of race sims hasn't excited me; each seems to excel in one area but be lacking in another. GTR2 is antiquated by computer standards but is good across the board, I am familiar with it, and have tracks and mods I'll probably not live long enough to try.

And beyond sims, games today are designed to hold your attention briefly, just long enough for the developers to get the next one on the market. There will be no more games like Morrowind, where you could play for a year and never touch the main quest. There will be no more games like SimCity or Transport Tycoon, open-ended games where you do what you want as long as you want. Planned obolescence, computer age.

"needing to connect to the servers for playing single player"
Just my point. There is absolutely no "need" for that, it is just something Steam/Origin/Ubi want - intrusive, invasive, and thoroughly unnecessary "management software". If it were actually "needed", all of us running GTR2, GTL, Oblivion, or any of numerous other games without an internet connection would not be able to do so.

But one thing that does grip my sheite is games like Raceroom that just will not allow me to play if I have no internet connection. I do detest that system.

Which is exactly what most do. Steam has an "offline" mode but it will eventuallly cry that it "needs" to connect. A few years ago Ubi stepped knee deep in it when they released Silent Hunter V with the requirement of a constant connection while running; this irritated people so, the hackers didn't bother with the game, they hacked Ubi's site so no one could play. Soon Ubi released an updated SHV that only "needed" to phone home when started.

 

[Andy_J]

Lol, I'm missing nothing.

You might kid yourself but not the rest of us. If you don't have modern sim games (games in general) how do you know what you are missing? So LOL right back at ya. Unless you are using pirated ripped software that is. I suppose you could get around Steam/ubi/Origin that way.

 

[jgf]

You might kid yourself but not the rest of us. If you don't have modern sim games (games in general) how do you know what you are missing? So LOL right back at ya. Unless you are using pirated ripped software that is. I suppose you could get around Steam/ubi/Origin that way.

Sarcasm, flippancy, and insinuation are counterproductive. I do not need to waste money on a game to know whether I will like it; I read what people say on sites like this or, in the past, nogrip, and generic game sites. When they are in agreement that a particular title has shortcomings, that is all I need to know. And regardless of how nice the game may be, I will not deal with Steam, EA/Origin, Ubi, or any such (were they to drop their totalitarian demands of installing software i do not want on my computer, they could quadruple their prices and I would be there now, Paypal in hand). I am quite content with the games I currently have, and will gladly buy something new ...when it is something I want, not because everyone else has bought it.

 

[Shovas]

But their specialty is buying rights to older games and occasionally optimizing them for newer OS, to get them back on the market. I'm not aware of them acting as distributor for new games.

This is definitely changing. It probably started with selling their own Witcher game and it has expanded to indie and early access games now.

I expect they're gunning to be a full-on Steam competitor minus all the bad points like DRM, always-on, never really owning anything, etc.

And I think they deserve it for all the positives they bring to consumers.

 

[jgf]

This is definitely changing. It probably started with selling their own Witcher game and it has expanded to indie and early access games now.

I expect they're gunning to be a full-on Steam competitor minus all the bad points like DRM, always-on, never really owning anything, etc.

And I think they deserve it for all the positives they bring to consumers.

Interesting. I would love to see another company bury Steam ...and rub salt in the wounds by acquiring all Steam's games and releasing them without the totalitarian manure. But that's dreaming.

I could tolerate Steam if more developers did as Runic Games did - offer the game via Steam for people who like that, and also from their own website, minus all the Steam nonsense, for those who just want the game. (With the demise of Runic, GOG acquired their games.)

 

[Shovas]

Fyi, Grand Prix Legends fans: There's a GOG.com community wishlist that GOG sometimes takes picks from to restore old games and this is the Grand Prix Legends wishlist entry, give it a vote!

https://www.gog.com/wishlist/games/grand_prix_legends

 

[manu68]

My opinion on the old simulations and why they remain unique until today is that these games have been developped during an totally different period of time. The world and the way of thinking was just different.
The devellopers had then to take into consideration all the material limitations and think about how to deal with that to make the game simply run. This is why there is so much details and stability in the old games.

The "young" simracers will laugh at playing a vanilla Grand prix legends, but at that time it cames from about nowhere as an UFO im the computer racing universe.
All was here from day 1.
1985 was about the start of personal computer. about 13 years later appears GPL, with an incredible car physics and AI. Today the graphics are a lot better, but the core satisfaction playing the game is exactly the same as during the first day.
My first online race has been made on a 33.6k modem. Something totally impossible nowadays.

I of course have bought GTR, GTR2, GTL (netkar pro, RBR, Nascar 2003 :..), ... from day one, and even if I didn't played these game as much as Grand Prix legends (I played them mainly offline), they mean a lot to me. All of them, because they have all a special ambiance within.

I recently built a new simracing PC (after some years with other priorities...), and my first action have been to install my "old" simulation on my pc, from the DVD/CD. (yes, I have a DVD player on my new pc for that).
I could not have a simracing pc without these games not installed. Impossible. They HAVE to be there ready in case I "need" to start them. They are like old good friends

The pleasure of opening the box, looking at the booklet is something I like to do regularly.

Of course the world has changed , I don't live in the past, and I don't play much these game anymore. I have not much time to simracing, and I prefer to look at the future and enjoy/discover the recent title too.

I play mainly assetto corsa, and I am amazed everytime I start the game , with all the content and mod (GBWsuite, shaders, ...). It looks so great.
I am enthusiastic about Assetto corsa competizione, because they try to make something a little different. I personally like the graphic and the ambiance on the track. It remains me the first days of Netkar namie or Netkar pro.
We will see the final game.

Long live the old good simulations !!

 

[charly222]

i'm not a hardcore racer/gamer. what sucks in my opinon is that you do not own your games anymore. steam and other online platforms may work nice, but if internet fails all your current games fail. and i hate the bigbrother attitude of most platforms including ms and apple system software. i know most people are already relaxed with this.
here is the advantage of all these older games including gtr2 and fsx. i really own them. and apart from that gtr2 is so nicely and scalable and moddable deveveoped that it is still fun even playing with 4k resolution. and even a gtx 1080ti with 4k res will barely reach the 60fps if you activate all eyecandy features available and if you know how to manipulate the dx9 shaders, with stunning visible results. the only limit left is the 32bit memory limitation..

this is what in my oprinion makes gtr2 an epic car simulation:
- more than10 year old active and capable modding scene
- still scalable dx9c graphics with 4k patch
- HQ / 4K capable
- fully featured
- capable and moddable ai and animations
- fantastic amount of available tracks, cars and tools
- fully capable single player mode

just something like enboost for skyrim (memory enhancer for 32bit) is missing.

Long live the good old simulaton!

 

[Shovas]

and even a gtx 1080ti with 4k res will barely reach the 60fps if you activate all eyecandy features available and if you know how to manipulate the dx9 shaders, with stunning visible results. the only limit left is the 32bit memory limitation..

You're in for a treat, then, go get the 4GB patch to allow GTR2 to use more memory and enable bigger tracks with more cars and objects to work:

https://selah.ca/secrets-of-gtr2/#4GB_Patch

Then go download Bill's Process Manager and use to enable GTR2 to use all of your cores: Now you'll have *way* more than 60fps minimum:

https://selah.ca/secrets-of-gtr2/#I...ng_GTR2_Use_More_Cores_For_Better_Performance

 

[GTR233]

I think charly222 already knows the 4gb patch but what he wants (and me too ) is another tweak to go beyond the 4gb and fully use your amount of ram (i.e. 16 or 32Gb)

 

[charly222]

yes, i use the 4GB patch already. my gtr.exe process maxed out with 2,5 GB so far.
i limited gtr2 to 60fps because i play with oled tv 4k 60hz. i use process explorer to set cpu affinity and io and thread priority. that works great. without sync fps go up tp 200fps and more. but the jagged lines ssaa killer setting i found today cuts fps severely.

enboost is a memory enhancer for skyrim and it starts helper threads for the textures to control the size of the game.exe file while you can load more and bigger textures even beyond the 32bit 4GB limit.
i must admit hat the existing hq gtr mods and tracks are already eyecandy. even with 3k resolution.
great stuff, all these hq mods!

 

[OzzyNeil]

Developers need to wake up to this, people still playing GTR2, and by the sounds of it they'll still be playing it when GTR3 comes out.
If it had native VR I'd be playing it to.

 

[GTR233]

Bjarne plays GTR2 in VR so you can ask him tips

 

[Durge Driven]

Without Steam buying sims would be a nightmare you would have countless sites, accounts .....nah
Steam you can test then get a refund
Steam you get constant sales
Steam is not invasive
Steam can verify your files and restore them

Steam with new OS you just click old Steam, click repair and all sims are up to date and working in a minute
With standalone all sims on new OS need to re-installed .....unless you use offline hacks

Anyway I was one of Steams biggest detractors but you simply can't argue no Steam is better
In what way? how does standalone do anything better ?

If you are worried about evasive software you would have to give up online all together
Forget Steam, if you use internet without a top VPN you are more open to attack

 

[charly222]

Without Steam buying sims would be a nightmare you would have countless sites, accounts .....nah
Steam you can test then get a refund
Steam you get constant sales
Steam is not invasive
Steam can verify your files and restore them

it seems you are happy in your steam world and you are not alone... that is absolutely ok. i think you would be even happy if you have to use steam for opening your car and your house if it makes all checks and veryfy all things before you enter and and even if they tell you that this is not invasive - you would believe it!
but there is a world without steam, valve and all the other gaming platforms (including the ones already closed...) and without a 24h internet connection. call me oldfashioned or stupid but i do absolutely not believe that steam is not invasive. i'm still happy with all the games i can play 24h a day offline and where ever i want to and without anyone else who tells me when i have to go online.

so it's very unlikely that any online dependent game that i can't own will ever reach a higher rank in my favorite games list or even cult status
cheers!

 

[mr_roschie]

Take a look of www.rennsimulanten.de
2 or 3 online races in a week .( Wednesday , Saturday , Sunday )
About 20 - 30 drivers !!

I make events there and specialy i find the weather tool very good .
There i can say .. after 20 minutes very hard rain or i can change the temperature during a race .

Also I am on youtube with livestream ( Roschie Racing )

Greets from Holland

 

[Shovas]

Without Steam buying sims would be a nightmare

You should quote the post to show why you posted otherwise we think you're just randomly inserting a topic lol This post seemed to come out of nowhere

Steam's features are great but it is very unfortunate we have to trade our right to 'own' the thing we bought to get those features.

That's why whenever possible I will buy from GOG.com which doesn't have DRM and gives you an actual download and you own it.

If it's on GOG, buy it from them, otherwise yeah, buy on Steam.

 

[OzzyNeil]

Bjarne plays GTR2 in VR so you can ask him tips

Probably with VorpX software which i avoid like the plague, unless i have an urgent need to vomit.
I'll try to find out though, cheers.

 

[benoityip]

Just played gtr2 again after so many years with anniversary mod. Love Ferrari and Lamborghini naturally aspirated engines.

Latest raceroom still have better physics in the gt3 and gt2 cars, not all cars in raceroom has latest physics, but the latest physics are very good

But gtr2 is quite good, and as other said, it is more completed, but physics are clearly falling behind.

The high resolution Graphics in gtr2 cockpit is probably better than raceroom..

 

[Spinelli]

GTR1

- I'm surprised GTR1 is the only ISI based sim where you could click on each corner on the circuit map and you will hear your engineer give you information and tips about the corner. So cool. I wonder if that is built in the ISI/rFactor engine or if the Simbin/Blimey/GTR guys had to edit the game's code for that. If it's built right in, then I'm shocked no other games nor modders have taken advantage of such a cool yet simple feature. I don't think any other ISI engine based game has this, not even GTR2.

- I also love how GTR1 had, I think, 3 different radio buttons. One asked your engineer about car damage, the other about your current position, and I can't remember the other one (maybe to pit?). I don't think any other ISI engine based game has this, not even GTR2.

- If I remember correctly, GTR1 seemed to take offline marbles more seriously than GTR2; you could really see and feel them add up over the course of the race but in GTR2 they seemed less prominent if I remember correctly. I could be wrong but this is how I remember it for some reason.

- Regardless of which one had better physics, GTR1 or GTR2, I for some reason always felt a more mechanical "presence" with GTR1. I felt more immersed in the car in GTR1 and less like I was playing a videogame. Physics felt more detailed in GTR1 than GTR2 regardless if they were better or worse than GTR2; I don't know why, I just got more of a mechanical and complex sensation driving GTR1 than GTR2.

GT Legends

- Then there's the absolutely brilliant career mode in GT Legends which is the coolest career mode as it forces you to try different cars and tracks and slowly progressing to larger version circuits, faster cars, faster car classes, longer races, bigger fields, and even mixed fields. I love it because I discovered so many amazing circuits and cars which I probably never would have tried if I just did occasional "pick-up" racing or joined a league.

- Another thing, why do the cars and often environment in GT Legends still look so damn good and how come this wasn't translated over to GTR2 or Race 07? Is there a special lighting or shader system used in GT Legends that was never used again in future games? It still shocks me to this day how good it sometimes looks and why this doesn't seem to have been carried over to GTR2, Race 07, etc.