GTR2: Why are Modern Sims Still Not as Good?

[Paul Jeffrey]

GTR2 is 11 years old, features a series that no longer exists and was developed for technology less advanced than a modern smart phone. Unbelievably it's still one of the best sims available today.

What I want to know is why? Why in the last 10 + years have some of the many awesome features found in this now long forgotten game not made their way into something more modern? Ok granted many different games feature some of the bits in GTR2, but no single title has taken what was already an incredible base and expanded upon it with the aid of much advanced technology we now have at our disposal.

Driving School? Check
Fully animated pit workers? Check
Animated flag marshals? Check
Day - night transition? Check
Weather cycle? Check
Full official series licence, over two separate seasons? Check
...and the list goes on and on...

Simply put GTR2 was massively overdeveloped, period. SimBin Studios quite literally took every single aspect of the then premier GT racing series in the world and recreated it all into a compelling racing experience that still stands out as a top simulation even by the standards of today, 11 years after the game hit our shelves.

I just find it all incredibility bizarre. In very few industries outside of sim racing will you see a decline in product quality and content as the years progress like we have to put up with today. When GTR2 first shipped in September 2006 the game was a complete package, not splattered with ridiculous bugs that prevented anyone having a good time, not bombarded by wave after wave of disparate DLC content with little or no relevance to the main experience and not hanging on by the merest thread for dear life as another iteration of something that's been released by someone else already. It really was a golden time for sim racing fans, and those who witnessed it all first hand really did think this would be the beginning of something big in sim racing.

Fast forward to 2017 and sadly the progress expected post GTR2 has quite simply not materialised. The game, the official simulation of the FIA GT World Championship, was probably the very last fully feature complete racing simulation we have seen in our niche genre. We've had loads of new games since then, some of which have even been released by the same people responsible for GTR and GTR2, but none have even come close to matching the level of features and polish afforded fans back in 2006. It's down right strange.

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features. Added to the still missing animated flag marshals and a range of other GTR2 items that haven't made the move over with time, it's all rather a depressing scene in which to take in.

Ok I appreciate Sector3 have worked exceptionally hard at improving RaceRoom to get to a level where it is barely recognisable now to what it looked like on launch day, but still to even consider releasing a game that was basically stripped of everything that made GTR2 great is simply mind boggling.

And it's not just RaceRoom that are guilty of missing out some key features considered par for the course 11 years ago, everyone is doing it! You only have to look at one of the most popular sims on the market Assetto Corsa as a perfect example, they consider themselves to be perfectionists on a mission to produce the most true to life experience possible, and they even miss out the core basics like weather and day to night transition, never mind such "nice to have" features like a driving school, proper flag implementation and multiclass racing options. It's simply amazing to realise that these features quite simply only exist in a game that was designed and released over a decade ago. Unbelievable.

GTR2 still looks pretty good on top graphics settings, still feels very nice indeed with my trusty CSW V2 and still sounds like it belongs in the very top tier of audio experience. All that whilst replicating a seriously mega international championship in a exceptionally detailed simulation that really does pick out all the little features that makes driving on a virtual track feel like the real thing. With that said and the pretty compelling physics considering the age of the title added up with stuff that no other sim has all together in one package, this is why I still believe GTR2 is, without reservation, the very best simulation racing experience one can purchase during 2017.

I love the game, it's just a bit sad that no one has thought to try and make something similar in the following 132 months since it was released.

GTR was released by SimBin Studios exclusively for PC. The game is still available to purchase on Steam for £4.99.

Like GTR2? Well lucky you, we are seriously considering a brand new informal league! Check out the GTR2 sub forum for general GTR2 discussion or our new GTR2 RDGT Championship forum for more details of the new league season. To prepare for the league all we ask is you have Premium membership, a fresh GTR2 install and these two additional patches HERE and HERE. Get ready for a return of the legend....

Do you still enjoy GTR2? What did the sim do right in your opinion? Why do features present in GTR2 still not appear in moderns sims? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Rakotojaona]

I have AC installed in my pc, but GTR2 still the best, modding with physics is awesome (engine compression ratio, you can change it according to real engine spec, feel like you are in right engine responsiveness with the right fuel octane spec index, changing tyre to real street car is awesome, you can compare to your real time lap in street car, center of gravity is awesome according to real car calculation, inertia is awesome. One of the best game. Try to convert rfactor street car and a hillclimb track for your own strict private use only, and you are right in heaven. You will never leave GTR2.

 

[Easty]

If I have standalone copies of such games, why on earth would I want Steam involved?

Well if you add it to your steam account then you will never need to use your discs again or at least till steam is no more. and its free.

 

[Shovas]

The only "clear modeling leader" for me at the moment is DCS World, and even that thing has its issues.

I meant to ask about this. I had to youtube DCS World. Looks like a military "simulation": Sim in terms of warface, strategty, tactics; Maybe I'm wrong but surely they don't have any reason to model car/tire physics realistically? If DCS World models those better than RF2 than S397/ISI need to talk to them

 

[jgf]

Well if you add it to your steam account then you will never need to use your discs again or at least till steam is no more. and its free.

Have two GTL installs and three GTR2 installs, don't need a disc for any of them. And am probably the only person here without a Steam account.

 

[GTR233]

Have two GTL installs and three GTR2 installs, don't need a disc for any of them. And am probably the only person here without a Steam account.

Same here, I keep my collector's dvds in safe place in their own boxes

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

I got both steam and disc.
But living in a humid place the Gtr2 disc got a mold spot and will not install anymore.
Have now made iso copies of my other game discs as those discs will not last forever.
While I was a reluctant late adopter to steam I now find it quite convenient!

 

[Pawgy]

Have most of the new games and they cost too much. ANd they keep wanting more.

 

[GTR233]

Yep, like many people here I miss the good old time (10 years ago is not so far though) when I bought a finished game in its nice colorful box with cd or dvd

 

[jgf]

Yep, like many people here I miss the good old time (10 years ago is not so far though) when I bought a finished game in its nice colorful box with cd or dvd

With a nice printed manual and, where applicable, a card showing all the keyboard controls.

I wouldn't mind downloading new games if given something I could burn to disc. Then reinstalling is a matter of minutes, not a 2+ hr download/install and verification, registration, validation, or whatever other "ations" are necessary.

Also, years ago you could find demos of most games (often on a CD included with a gaming magazine ...remember those); you could play one level or play for 30 minutes or drive one car on one track, and buy the full game if you liked it. Today it seems you pay full price for what is essentially a demo then get nickeled and dimed to death for all the small pieces to make the full game.

 

[Shovas]

Today it seems you pay full price for what is essentially a demo then get nickeled and dimed to death for all the small pieces to make the full game.

Steam pretty much has this solved with their no questions 2 hour return policy. Not the best for sims where you can spend a couple of hours tuning ffb but for everything else it's probably fine.

 

[jgf]

Steam pretty much has this solved with their no questions 2 hour return policy. Not the best for sims where you can spend a couple of hours tuning ffb but for everything else it's probably fine.

Unfortunately Steam's business paradigm is an absolute deal breaker for me. Though my complaint is more with developers who decide to solely release their games via Steam, thereby depriving me of any options of where to spend my money.

 

[Kenny Paton]

Unfortunately Steam's business paradigm is an absolute deal breaker for me

Morally, I dislike and distrust monopolies.
Pragmatically, I've had it more or less from the beginning and never had a problem.
Now with Microsoft, Origin and apparently Discord doing the same thing it seems to be where game distribution is heading to.
I do sympathise with people who have not had a good experience with Steam as they are gradually being set adrift from modern gaming.

 

[jgf]

Morally, I dislike and distrust monopolies.
Pragmatically, I've had it more or less from the beginning and never had a problem.
Now with Microsoft, Origin and apparently Discord doing the same thing it seems to be where game distribution is heading to.
I do sympathise with people who have not had a good experience with Steam as they are gradually being set adrift from modern gaming.

Well, for me it is quite simple; the merchant gets my money, I get a product, end of relationship as long as that product functions as expected. I've no interest in joining his community, I've no interest in achievement lists, and I adamantly will not allow installation of unwanted and unnecessary software on my system. If a game is not mulitplayer there is no valid reason for it to "phone home", especially every blasted time it is started (ahem... EA/Origin and Ubi), and it is egregiously unacceptable if said game will not even start if it cannot connect.

Open message to developers - to get my dollar, give me the game and nothing else, and I should be able to install and play that game on a computer that is not even connected to the internet.

In the meantime most of my gaming dollar is going to ebay, thrift shops, yard sales, etc. picking up games I've missed in the past. And periodically reinstalling old favorites to enjoy again.

 

[Andy_J]

Open message to developers - to get my dollar, give me the game and nothing else, and I should be able to install and play that game on a computer that is not even connected to the internet.

In the meantime most of my gaming dollar is going to ebay, thrift shops, yard sales, etc. picking up games I've missed in the past. And periodically reinstalling old favorites to enjoy again.

Whilst I agree with your policy, you are limiting yourself to old stuff these days. As a retro gamer and die hard PC enthusiast gamer since my first 386 pc (and old Amigas, C64's etc) I love the old stuff but all the new PC games are distribution systems that require Steam, Origin etc and are mainly needing to connect to the servers for playing single player and multiplayer. And hence you are going to miss out on some great games.

But one thing that does grip my sheite is games like Raceroom that just will not allow me to play if I have no internet connection. I do detest that system.

 

[Amanda]

Take RaceRoom Racing Experience for example, developed as the next GT game from the people behind GTR and GTR2, when the title first hit public beta stage back in February 2013 what did we have? Basically a hotlapping simulation with limited content, no official series licence, no AI to race against and precisely zero multiplayer features.

That's because GTR2 was developed by what is now known as Slightly Mad Studios. Which is why Race07 or even RaceRoom didn't have all the features of GTR2, because these guys didn't develop them. Which is also why EA picked SMS/Blimey to develop some of the Need for Speed games, and not "SimBin".

You, better than anyone, Paul, should know that what is known as "SimBin", the guys that developed Race07, then split and formed Sector3, are not the guys behind GTR2 at all

 

[Shovas]

One thing we can all do is encourage Steam competitors that don't have that always-connected/always-on thing: The best of them is GOG.com. They just don't have the selection of sims we would want.

But if we encourage devs in the right way and shop with our wallets things might happen. I can already see it starting to change. Slowly but surely devs, especially indie, are releasing off Steam or on another platform that doesn't have the integration requirements.

Hopefully we'll get back to owning our stuff properly one day.

 

[Shovas]

You, better than anyone, Paul, should know that what is known as "SimBin", the guys that developed Race07, then split and formed Sector3, are not the guys behind GTR2 at all

#unpopularopinion: I've always thought that Project Cars 2 (SMS) was the real successor to GTR2.

Think about it. It has all the features you'd want and it's also not quite there when it comes to physics and ffb but, I suspect, if somebody with FFB chops got on it they could produce good FFB from it, at least to the level of RF1/AMS. And hopefully they keep improving.

One day when it's in my budget and on sale I'll buy the whole kit and kaboodle and see what I can do with that FFB. I have a sneaking suspicion I could tune that thing given what I was able to get out of GTR2.

 

[Amanda]

Feature wise Project Cars 2 is one of the most complete packages out there, it's well optimized and has a lot of content.
I just think that a successor for GTR2 should be focused on a real racing series instead of putting a bunch of classes together. If SMS did that, it'd definitely be the best successor for GTR2, from the people that actually developed GTR2

And FFB, I was actually surprised how similar PC2's FFB felt in my G29, felt just like a lot of content for rFactor 2.

 

[Will Mazeo]

#unpopularopinion: I've always thought that Project Cars 2 (SMS) was the real successor to GTR2.

It is... the problem is convincing many GTR2 fans about it...

 

[jgf]

One thing we can all do is encourage Steam competitors that don't have that always-connected/always-on thing: The best of them is GOG.com. They just don't have the selection of sims we would want.

But their specialty is buying rights to older games and occasionally optimizing them for newer OS, to get them back on the market. I'm not aware of them acting as distributor for new games.

But if we encourage devs in the right way and shop with our wallets things might happen.

Exactly why I do not patronize Steam, EA/Origin, Ubi, et.al. The only reason they have persisted in their reprehensible policies is that everyone went along with them.

I'm not advocating eliminating Steam, many enjoy it, only that developers give us options. For anything else I wish to buy, from a hamburger to a new car, I have a choice of many merchants. Don't like one? Deal with another. But ... Don't like Steam? Do without. So I will.