AC GT3 @ Spa - Sunday 3rd January 2021

[GeekyDeaks]

Just managed to grab a bit of time to try some of the tips @Chris Down suggested and managed a 2:20.4. I'm struggling to use the kerbs with the 911, it seems to really upset it and I tend to lose the back end. Maybe just more practice?

Here is the motec @RasmusP https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3_ft32H1mVI3m8luNj7DJl7lIGVnW_s/view?usp=sharing

 

[doof205]

Just managed to grab a bit of time to try some of the tips @Chris Down suggested and managed a 2:20.4. I'm struggling to use the kerbs with the 911, it seems to really upset it and I tend to lose the back end. Maybe just more practice?

Here is the motec @RasmusP https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3_ft32H1mVI3m8luNj7DJl7lIGVnW_s/view?usp=sharing

What tyres are you on?

 

[GeekyDeaks]

What tyres are you on?

Medium. I tend to only practice with what I intend to to race with. Only had about 15 litres of fuel though, Let me attach the setup
EDIT: need to reduce the fuel... that was my race setup

 

[GeekyDeaks]

@RasmusP that motec thread is pretty cool. Was thinking maybe we can share on the race threads prior to the event going forward, but would that be considered off topic? I know people already share setup etc... not sure how many people have ACTI installed either...

 

[Chris Down]

Just managed to grab a bit of time to try some of the tips @Chris Down suggested and managed a 2:20.4. I'm struggling to use the kerbs with the 911, it seems to really upset it and I tend to lose the back end. Maybe just more practice?

Here is the motec @RasmusP https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S3_ft32H1mVI3m8luNj7DJl7lIGVnW_s/view?usp=sharing

Hmm, I'd love to help, but I've never used Motec really.

As for kerbs, from what I remember the 911 is a bit more edgy over kerbs because of the weight distribution, but it can be tuned out with some adjustments in the suspension and dampers.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

Hmm, I'd love to help, but I've never used Motec really.

Ah, my bad... that was just for @RasmusP Thanks so much for taking the time to review earlier though!

 

[RasmusP]

@RasmusP that motec thread is pretty cool. Was thinking maybe we can share on the race threads prior to the event going forward, but would that be considered off topic? I know people already share setup etc... not sure how many people have ACTI installed either...

I'd love that.. Sadly when I was hosting races I got slaps on my wrist when allowing talks about lap times. So motec probably falls into the same category. It's funny because that's meant to not scare off new poeple but to be honest I'm yet to meet someone who took part in the race because he didn't know the timings..
Most want an honest reflection of their skill and then take part, knowing where they will be racing.

I'd say let's try it and Chris will just continue to give general advice. If nobody cries about it, who cares.
The responsible staffies never read these threads anyway...

Hmm, I'd love to help, but I've never used Motec really.

As for kerbs, from what I remember the 911 is a bit more edgy over kerbs because of the weight distribution, but it can be tuned out with some adjustments in the suspension and dampers.

Your advice is just as, if not a lot more useful than some motec data.
In the end it's about having fun and pushing to your limit.
Motec helps to practice and correct some driving behavior but it's quite specific and "boring".

 

[GeekyDeaks]

I'd love that.. Sadly when I was hosting races I got slaps on my wrist when allowing talks about lap times. So motec probably falls into the same category.

Yeah, I understand why they would want to restrict competitive discussions at the sharp end, but I still remember trying to figure out what the rear pack was running at to prep for my first race and not having much of a clue.

Motec helps to practice and correct some driving behavior but it's quite specific and "boring".

I struggle to get a clear picture with just the telemetry data anyway. I did find it useful to identify that I was consistently down by 4-5mph on my apex speed over the quick drivers, but otherwise I tend to use it to compare my own laps to see where I am being inconsistent.

 

[RasmusP]

I struggle to get a clear picture with just the telemetry data anyway. I did find it useful to identify that I was consistently down by 4-5mph on my apex speed over the quick drivers, but otherwise I tend to use it to compare my own laps to see where I am being inconsistent.

I had the luck to find a friend in Matteo Caruso and he helped me a few times by setting a benchmark lap for me.
Sometimes it was nice to see that I'm not far off but just not as smooth and needed more practice. But sometimes I was like "oooh... Aaahhh... Oooookay...."
Sometimes it looked quite similar on the replay but motec showed the critical details to get faster.

You really need both in the end.
In theory motec can sync a video feed to the data but I've never done that...

 

[pattikins]

Yeah, I understand why they would want to restrict competitive discussions at the sharp end, but I still remember trying to figure out what the rear pack was running at to prep for my first race and not having much of a clue.


I struggle to get a clear picture with just the telemetry data anyway. I did find it useful to identify that I was consistently down by 4-5mph on my apex speed over the quick drivers, but otherwise I tend to use it to compare my own laps to see where I am being inconsistent.

The car makes a big difference. 7/8 drivers @ the front of the grid driving a McLaren isn't a fluke. Personally, if I'd have used the SCG I'd have been battling for 6th on the grid and for 10th place if I was in the Z4. I dread to think where I'd be if I was driving the Porsche .

 

[GeekyDeaks]

The car makes a big difference. 7/8 drivers @ the front of the grid driving a McLaren isn't a fluke. Personally, if I'd have used the SCG I'd have been battling for 6th on the grid and for 10th place if I was in the Z4. I dread to think where I'd be if I was driving the Porsche .

Is that down to a few 1/10s or a lot more?

For someone of my ability, stability is a factor too. I can get around without major incident in the 911, but my last two attempts in the 650S had a few waltzer moments

I do like the pointy'ness of the 650S though, just not got the skill to go with it

 

[RasmusP]

Is that down to a few 1/10s or a lot more?

For someone of my ability, stability is a factor too. I can get around without major incident in the 911, but my last two attempts in the 650S had a few waltzer moments

I do like the pointy'ness of the 650S though, just not got the skill to go with it

Do you and all the others know about Phil's awesome base setups? They are basically just tweaked defaults but the 650s for example is made a LOT softer at the rear!
The default is super stiff at the rear springs and undrivable for me. Phil's base setup is still edgy but manageable.
Here's the link again:

GT3 Car Pack @Mugello

Been thinking of doing this for a while so here it is. Base setups for the current relevant GT3 field. I used Mugello. The track has everything, big braking zone, slow corners, direction changes, fast corners, off camber corners...the setups that work well here should work well everywhere. The...

www.racedepartment.com

 

[pattikins]

Is that down to a few 1/10s or a lot more?

For someone of my ability, stability is a factor too. I can get around without major incident in the 911, but my last two attempts in the 650S had a few waltzer moments

I do like the pointy'ness of the 650S though, just not got the skill to go with it

It's hard to say between the SCG & 650s - I went out with too much fuel in the qualifying round (mind elsewhere...) so I think there was more time that I could've found in the 650s, whereas in the practice session in the SCG I was near my limit @ 2.17.3. I was around 2.18.1 in the BMW in the practice session - it was my first attempt using the Z4, but I couldn't see where I'd find a second or more with it.

As Rasmus alludes too, it's probably the setup that you have for the 650s that is causing your 'waltzer moments' - I've only had one of those moments (Red Bull Ring), & that was when I was having stuttering issues. The Lambo is a different story. I still have nightmares about it now .

I don't know if it's variation of 'Phil's... setup', but John posted a 650s Bathurst setup a while back that is very stable.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

As Rasmus alludes too, it's probably the setup that you have for the 650s that is causing your 'waltzer moments'

Ok, will give it another go. When I can keep it on track, I really like the responsiveness of the 650S as I don't seem to need to preempt the turn in. I even managed to qualify in the top 10 at croft when I first tried it as it seemed so much more stable over the bumps than the 911 and I could really get on the power early. It is a very unusual track for GT3 though.

 

[Chris Down]

The car makes a big difference. 7/8 drivers @ the front of the grid driving a McLaren isn't a fluke. Personally, if I'd have used the SCG I'd have been battling for 6th on the grid and for 10th place if I was in the Z4. I dread to think where I'd be if I was driving the Porsche .

Hmm, the SCG happens to be a particularly... interesting car with only a couple of viable tracks with good race pace due to the godawful brakes and tyre wear, whereas the 911 tends to be a lot more viable, although yes, it requires relearning some tuning because of the totally inverted weight distribution and tyre heating.

To be clear: I think most of us would be further down the grid if we switched car, but not because the other cars are no good or the 650s is better -- it's because one doesn't know them anywhere near as well as the car one is driving, and one can't crank out consistent pace with them because of that. That said, my previous win here with the 488 had better pace than Sunday's race, so I'm pretty sure the 488 is definitely ahead of the 650s, since I don't know it as well and can still drive it faster here.

I was surprised not to see more 488s for that reason. The 650s is always pretty great hotlapping, but in the race I'd expect the 488, R8, and (maybe) the Lambo to be faster than it.

 

[Kek700]

@GeekyDeaks

Not very good with the Porsche here, if you can get Reik to upload, the lad is very rapid here, at least 2 or three seconds faster than me in the Porsche.

How he does it is another one of lives mysteries to me.

I am a second quicker, so probably it is a bit more workable for you to judge where you are losing time.

if it were Reik data print out, like me you would soon be losing the will to live.

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

 

[GeekyDeaks]

To be clear: I think most of us would be further down the grid if we switched car, but not because the other cars are no good or the 650s is better -- it's because one doesn't know them anywhere near as well as the car one is driving,

This matches my recent experience completely. I can jump in the 911 and get up to my usual off-pace within a few laps. When I try out another car I'm scrapping around like crazy for what seems like ages before I'm close to what I set in the 911. The only exception so far was at croft, but that was a 'colourful' track

 

[pattikins]

Hmm, the SCG happens to be a particularly... interesting car with only a couple of viable tracks with good race pace due to the godawful brakes and tyre wear, whereas the 911 tends to be a lot more viable, although yes, it requires relearning some tuning because of the totally inverted weight distribution and tyre heating.

To be clear: I think most of us would be further down the grid if we switched car, but not because the other cars are no good or the 650s is better -- it's because one doesn't know them anywhere near as well as the car one is driving, and one can't crank out consistent pace with them because of that. That said, my previous win here with the 488 had better pace than Sunday's race, so I'm pretty sure the 488 is definitely ahead of the 650s, since I don't know it as well and can still drive it faster here.

I was surprised not to see more 488s for that reason. The 650s is always pretty great hotlapping, but in the race I'd expect the 488, R8, and (maybe) the Lambo to be faster than it.

I think you could borrow Ernie's milk float & still win the race , but I do think it's important to be honest about the performance of the 650s. It dominated the grid last Sunday, & it will do the same again @ Brands Hatch. That's not about getting used to a car.

 

[Kek700]

You should not give up on the 911, it is a quick car, you can competively run mediums, uses least fuel, very very good car. It teaches you a lot about how to get good pace out of a car.
I still think, if mastered, it is the quickest overall, just difficult, but that means you are learning how to drive, not like me relying of big dobbs of torque to get an advantage.

 

[GeekyDeaks]

You should not give up on the 911, it is a quick car, you can competively run mediums, uses least fuel, very very good car. It teaches you a lot about how to get good pace out of a car.
I still think, if mastered, it is the quickest overall, just difficult, but that means you are learning how to drive, not like me relying of big dobbs of torque to get an advantage.

Yeah, I'm really reluctant to go swapping around as I quite like the 911's tendency to push under power and have got used to it's quirks under braking. I'll give the 650S another quick go with Phil's base setups later today for a bit of fun though and see if it makes a big difference for me or not. I'll also try out his 911 setup. I know he quoted about .8s difference between the 911 and 650S, but realistically I'm probably only going to see a 1/5th of that until I can sort things out my end.