F3 Racer Alex Peroni Escapes Huge Monza Shunt Unharmed

[bm91]

The especially annoying thing about this is that those curbs are there to solve the problem of drivers using that as part of the racing surface, which only came about because they pave every square meter of surface at modern tracks. I understand paved runoff is safer, but the implementation is asinine. They've just created a whole host of new problems by the way they've done it.

Like was suggested earlier, there should be a grass strip separating the runoff from the racing surface. It allows for a paved runoff for safety, prevents drivers from abusing that surface automatically, and completely removes the "need" for these stupid sausage curbs that are quite clearly dangerous. Remember that crash at Spa coming up Raidillon last year (was it F3 as well?)?

I'm still pissed off that they didn't do that in turn 2 at Mosport when they paved that runoff zone; completely neutered the corner and everyone takes advantage of it. Every start/restart is a farce now. They left a grass strip in turn 8, so why not in turn 2 as well?

I think they don't put grass strip because it can provoke drivers to loose control of their car. But these sausage kerbs aren't meant to be rolled at this speed.
Like you said, FIA created problems that didn't existed 20 years ago and laxness has never proven to be anything good, specially with safety. The recent accidents recalls it dramaticaly...
Perhaps they'll create a system slowing down automaticaly a car(or bike) whose wheels are off track limits.

 

[BillGuy]

I have a hard time getting through my head that good old gravel traps weren't safer.

I have a hard time getting it through my head why the exact same technology used for timing and scoring can’t be used to police out of bounds violations. It would need additional “left” and “right” transponders on the cars but is that really a big deal as long as the rules stipulate their installation details? So for Parabolica you’d be out of bounds if the “right” transponder crosses the line. Simple, objective, and removes the need for anything other than standard edge curbing or painted lines.

 

[Enerjex]

Dumb to use a sausage curb in such a high speed corner. Gravel would be more effective but will get dragged onto the track. Grass would also work but could cause a car to spin and hit the barrier out of control. There has to be a modern forward thinking solution to this, maybe some of that paint that slows cars down like PR so it ruins their run down the straight, or a rumble strip so jarring the drivers won't go near it, or a project cars 2 style curb that sucks the car off the track if it gets touched

 

[LeSunTzu]

There used to be gravel around parabolica and it is not that old. Something like 5 years ago. Sausage curbs are supposed to have a dissuasive effect. When drivers ride them full speed it is no wonder something nasty happens. I guess that's Murphy's law applied to racing.

Btw the halo might have been again proven useful with that scary reversed landing over the tyre barrier.

 

[Kjell81d]

That dude has a huge helmet. Did he wander off the set of Spaceballs.

 

[Jayblue]

I think they don't put grass strip because it can provoke drivers to loose control of their car. But these sausage kerbs aren't meant to be rolled at this speed.
Like you said, FIA created problems that didn't existed 20 years ago and laxness has never proven to be anything good, specially with safety. The recent accidents recalls it dramaticaly...
Perhaps they'll create a system slowing down automaticaly a car(or bike) whose wheels are off track limits.

Personally I don't see what the problem is with a driver losing control if they stray on to a grass strip at the edge of the course. Isn't that why street courses are so exciting, knowing a mistake will be instantly punished? Part of the skill of the sport is having that millimetre perfect accuracy that separates the great from the good drivers.

If a driver makes a mistake I want to see him loose time in a natural way rather than some computerised slow down or off track penalty being applied retrospectively. And I certainly don't want to see either no penalty because of the asphalt run off area or a totally avoidable incident like this one that should never happen.

 

[Ryno917]

I think they don't put grass strip because it can provoke drivers to loose control of their car. But these sausage kerbs aren't meant to be rolled at this speed.
Like you said, FIA created problems that didn't existed 20 years ago and laxness has never proven to be anything good, specially with safety. The recent accidents recalls it dramaticaly...
Perhaps they'll create a system slowing down automaticaly a car(or bike) whose wheels are off track limits.

They're not mean to be rolled over at all, really, that's their entire purpose. Putting one in a spot where a car can very easily travel through at high speed is such bad design it borders on negligence. Disuasion does nothing to mitigate a mistake.

I have a hard time getting it through my head why the exact same technology used for timing and scoring can’t be used to police out of bounds violations. It would need additional “left” and “right” transponders on the cars but is that really a big deal as long as the rules stipulate their installation details? So for Parabolica you’d be out of bounds if the “right” transponder crosses the line. Simple, objective, and removes the need for anything other than standard edge curbing or painted lines.

Dumb to use a sausage curb in such a high speed corner. Gravel would be more effective but will get dragged onto the track. Grass would also work but could cause a car to spin and hit the barrier out of control. There has to be a modern forward thinking solution to this, maybe some of that paint that slows cars down like PR so it ruins their run down the straight, or a rumble strip so jarring the drivers won't go near it, or a project cars 2 style curb that sucks the car off the track if it gets touched

There doesn't need to be a "modern" solution to this, really. Throwing a bunch of technology at this is vastly over-complicating things. Simple solutions are almost always the best. In this case, change the design to have a safe situation that still punishes making mistakes.

So what if a car spins on the grass? They made a mistake. The alternative is essentially no penalty, which results in the area being abused. Always. Every track with paved runoff right aside the racing surface has this problem, to the point that some (even relatively high level) series don't even bother policing the issue at some tracks. Look at that Miata race from COTA last year; it's pathetic, and it's 100% caused by bad design.

 

[Deleted member 561801]

WTF?

 

[bm91]

Personally I don't see what the problem is with a driver losing control if they stray on to a grass strip at the edge of the course. Isn't that why street courses are so exciting, knowing a mistake will be instantly punished? Part of the skill of the sport is having that millimetre perfect accuracy that separates the great from the good drivers.

If a driver makes a mistake I want to see him loose time in a natural way rather than some computerised slow down or off track penalty being applied retrospectively. And I certainly don't want to see either no penalty because of the asphalt run off area or a totally avoidable incident like this one that should never happen.

I'm also in favor of the grass/gravel runoff but FIA will never go back to this. Everything now is about safety and to permit the bad drivers to recover from their mistakes.

 

[bm91]

They're not mean to be rolled over at all, really, that's their entire purpose. Putting one in a spot where a car can very easily travel through at high speed is such bad design it borders on negligence. Disuasion does nothing to mitigate a mistake.





There doesn't need to be a "modern" solution to this, really. Throwing a bunch of technology at this is vastly over-complicating things. Simple solutions are almost always the best. In this case, change the design to have a safe situation that still punishes making mistakes.

So what if a car spins on the grass? They made a mistake. The alternative is essentially no penalty, which results in the area being abused. Always. Every track with paved runoff right aside the racing surface has this problem, to the point that some (even relatively high level) series don't even bother policing the issue at some tracks. Look at that Miata race from COTA last year; it's pathetic, and it's 100% caused by bad design.

Yes they can be rolled, but only at very low speed. That's why they are put on chicanes and we have seen many times drivers passing over these kerbs without damage. But it would be more simple and safe to put grass instead.

 

[Omer Said]

This is Midtown Madness level of physics. Something must be off with the Earth's settings.

 

[OZ67]

Deep Gravel Traps would be the safest option imo, If you go into them your out of the race but walk away alive.

 

[PoopMan]

The traffic council is getting really carried away with their speed bumps.

 

[BillGuy]

Deep Gravel Traps would be the safest option imo, If you go into them your out of the race but walk away alive.

Deep gravel traps have the very real possibility of “grabbing” sideways skidding cars causing them to roll, potentially violently, whereas they would simply keep on sliding otherwise. For areas where there is a decent amount of runoff room, the simple slippery “grass” strip, followed by more pavement, then tecpro or tire barriers is far safer, IMO.

 

[mopro]

Pheeew I'm really glad Peroni "only" suffered "minor" injury.
Whoever put that sausage curb over there must have watched too many Hollywood's B action movies

 

[Matt Y]

This is Midtown Madness level of physics. Something must be off with the Earth's settings.

Pheeew I'm really glad Peroni "only" suffered "minor" injury.
Whoever put that sausage curb over there must have watched too many Hollywood's B action movies

*cough* Driven *cough*

 

[Thang Nguyen]

His escape made me relieved after I had seen the car flying over the barriers

 

[farjam]

So, they have remove that thing and F1 drivers start to go wide at that particular area to gain time in Qualy.

 

[gamer19]

Apparently. And apparently mr Vettel milk the last drop out of it.

 

[Enerjex]

There doesn't need to be a "modern" solution to this, really. Throwing a bunch of technology at this is vastly over-complicating things. Simple solutions are almost always the best. In this case, change the design to have a safe situation that still punishes making mistakes.

So what if a car spins on the grass? They made a mistake.

I certainly agree that there's nothing wrong with a car spinning as a consequence of a mistake. In this example given the high speed of the corner spinning on a patch of grass will likely result in the car catapulting into the fence. For this corner a better solution would be something that causes the car to lose a few seconds off track and down the following straight. i think a curb or texture to inflict a penalty such as this is more in line with the modern 'tarmac forest' way of F1 tracks than grass/gravel, without implementing expensive electronic systems and throwing a bunch of technology at it.