Electric Cars - The Future of Consumer Motoring?

[jonelsorel]

I own a Diesel and after watching a documentary realised I should not have bought one, they are filthy and should be banned. I was shocked by how bad they are.

Really? Talk about (manufacturing) priorities, guilt and the lesser of two evils.

"The device found that the air on the deck downwind of, and directly next to the ship’s funnels, had 84,000 ultra-fine particulates per cubic centimetre. Directly next to the funnels on the deck, the numbers rocketed to 144,000 with a peak at 226,000.

This is more than double the average found in central London’s Piccadilly Circus, where using the same device, the Dispatches team recorded 38,400 ultra-fine particulates per cubic centimetre."

https://greenworldwarriors.com/2019...ip-emits-as-much-pollution-as-a-million-cars/

"Last year, the German watchdog Nabu surveyed 77 cruise ships and found that all but one used toxic heavy fuel oil that the group described as “dirtiest of all fuels”. This came a year after the same watchdog blew the whistle on German cruise operators for failing to adhere to their own air quality safety standards. The data collected reveals that standing on the deck of a cruise ship is similar to being in one of the world’s most polluted cities, with health experts warning of the issues surrounding poor air quality."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamese...alth-and-environmental-problems/#24a337ec37db

 

[Ruy Horta]

The creation of the current tech of car batteries, the eventual disposable after x-number of charge cycles and the eventual disposal of the electric car. Within a decade or two at the most we’ll start reading about the environmental impact of battery waste.

It is the same as nuclear energy, nice on paper, but please don’t calculate the cost of long term storage and disposal. We have multiple examples of the real impact and the cost of nuclear accidents, we have examples of the problems with long term (exclamation mark fully deserved) disposal and clean up.

A lot of clean up is being postponed or bypassed, both in the west and east.
In short the challenge with nuclear waste is being postponed for future generations to deal with.
That’s not calculating long term cost to man and nature.

Not being dramatic.
On paper nuclear energy is great.

Fossil fuels are not dead, we just need to be working on energy efficiency and if applicable clean usage including disposal. Same with nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal and tidal.

Electric power* as such does not exist, it is directly linked to generation and storage.

*unless you follow the electric universe and Tesla, if you do you know that electricity is all around us and we just to tap into that free energy.

 

[FinFan]

I am from Germany, too. Our politicians are great in making bold statements (like x number of electric cars on the street up to a given date) and than not backing that up. Well I guess this is true for other countries as well.
We do not have the infrastructure to charge all this cars. I am not talking charging points alone. Even if we had those the electric grid simply can't provide the energy needed for millions of cars. They basically have to build a completely new grid and they haven't even started. I wouldn't mind owning an electric car. But there isn't one I can afford buying. I do not belong to those for whom 30k+ € is affordable. Plus, we live in a 32 unit block with a garage across the street. No powerline. Where do I charge it ?? And speaking of charging: I fill up my petrol car within minutes and are on my way again. I don't want to spend 20-30 minutes at a charging point when I am travelling. If I have two or three cars ahead of me at a gas station I can live with that. Do I have to wait 90 min at a charging point ??
Yes, we need to change the way our cars are powered. Be it for the sake of the environment or simply because fossil fuels are not endless. We are already way behind. But the way it is handled now will lead us nowhere fast. It is pure activism.

 

[brown_recluse]

I just wish the environment freaks would stop pushing a single tech. Sometimes it looks like if someone found a fuel that works on current ICE cars and made 0 or near 0 polution these freaks would block it because it's not what/how they wanted

Environment freaks? Unchecked carbon pollution will end our civilization and motorsport with it. If a loud, visceral hydrogen or some such engine were developed, I would be all over it.

 

[ZeldaACFan17]

Hydrogen propulsion will mean most likely that cars will not have gears, which is not what car guys like myself want in a car

 

[ZeldaACFan17]

Same thing with electric cars. No gears, no buy.

 

[Dr. Death]

Electrics are still a more expensive option and that will be the case for a few more years.

When we hit the cost tipping point people will get EV's because they will be cheaper and cost less to maintain. Until then it is pretty much just early adopters as people get comfortable with the technology.

An electric car is much easier and simpler to build and maintain than an ICE car. The only reason they are more expensive is battery cost. Once that price drops the car price will drop. Tesla already dropped the price of their Model S at one point because of dropping battery costs. However they did also get rid of the lowest cost option with the smallest battery. Still they will get cheaper with time.

Also from this point on we will have relatively cheap gas and diesel, so fuel prices won't push electric adoption. The demand for petroleum fuels is still increasing, but just barely and the growth is decelerating quickly such that demand will be dropping in the very near future. Meanwhile we have found an abundance of oil and the Saudi's know that oil will only be valuable for a very short time before the bottom drops out and they will continue to keep oil prices low to make their competition less profitable and keep of the higher cost pumping operations shut down.

Fuel cell tech is simply not going to happen because H2 requires a lot of power to generate. This will keep H2 at least twice as expensive as electricity will be and we would be burning a lot more fossil fuel to generate the H2 and even more to transport it to gas stations. So people will just charge up with the power directly rather than wasting half of that power to break water into H2 and O2. That is the bottom line. It requires a large amount of energy to break the chemical bonds of water. That's physics/chemistry and the amount of power won't change.

When electric cars become dominant, we will be able to reclaim all the wasted space used by gas stations today in prime real estate. Instead there will be solar cell shades in parking lots, but most people will just top off at home at night and never need to charge anywhere else unless they take a trip.

The technology is advancing very quickly and it is just a matter of time.

I have yet to see a single person with hands on experience on modern consumer grade electric cars (and not just home-built prototypes) claim that EV are easier to work on than ICE cars. Every tesla/electric domestic car mechanic i've read about claims that they are a very lethal nigthmare, since the current difference in the main battery can kill you even if the car is "off".

 

[RCHeliguy]

The people I know who own Tesla's, love them. I know one guy with both a model X and a model 3 and another here local to me just has a Model 3. With regard to working on them, so far they have only had software updates that occur at night while they are charging, windshield wiper fluid, and tires. That's it.

That seems like pretty easy maintenance.

 

[Wedge]

Petrol based fuel must DIE. Or else we will, along with our planet.

 

[ZeldaACFan17]

Don't say that

 

[protonv5]

I am from Germany, too. Our politicians are great in making bold statements (like x number of electric cars on the street up to a given date) and than not backing that up. Well I guess this is true for other countries as well.
We do not have the infrastructure to charge all this cars. I am not talking charging points alone. Even if we had those the electric grid simply can't provide the energy needed for millions of cars. They basically have to build a completely new grid and they haven't even started. I wouldn't mind owning an electric car. But there isn't one I can afford buying. I do not belong to those for whom 30k+ € is affordable. Plus, we live in a 32 unit block with a garage across the street. No powerline. Where do I charge it ?? And speaking of charging: I fill up my petrol car within minutes and are on my way again. I don't want to spend 20-30 minutes at a charging point when I am travelling. If I have two or three cars ahead of me at a gas station I can live with that. Do I have to wait 90 min at a charging point ??
Yes, we need to change the way our cars are powered. Be it for the sake of the environment or simply because fossil fuels are not endless. We are already way behind. But the way it is handled now will lead us nowhere fast. It is pure activism.

Very well said.

 

[protonv5]

Petrol based fuel must DIE. Or else we will, along with our planet.

Baloney. But you believe this because, well you want to.

https://www.wnd.com/2016/01/time-runs-out-on-al-gores-global-warming-armageddon/

 

[Easty]

These electric cars dont suport VR.
No VR no buy.

 

[MarkR]

Same thing with electric cars. No gears, no buy.

Why though? What real difference does changing gear yourself make? The illusion of greater control? You like the left leg workout constantly pushing the clutch pedal in traffic? There was a joy to snicking through the sweet gear changes in something like the rifle bolt S2000 gearbox but I'm not sure it matters anymore.

Most of the current fast cars are already semi-automatic and the latest R8 DSG triple shaft box is incredible in shift speed and seems to have some sort of magic built into the way it knows what the driver wants next, BMW Sport 8 speed is a masterpiece and the latest Mercedes boxes can either be super smooth for the road or give the full-on race effect on track.

I highly doubt you'll be faster on track in a real car too with manual, it's a conversation we've had many times with our group of friends and the instructors we know. Semi-auto allows you to focus more on the track itself.

The instant torque in electric cars is superb for the road, there is no delay in power delivery and the traffic is often left in your wake. If anything more throttle control is required the Hyundai Kona Electric will spin the wheels easily with even gentle throttle and the Leaf has it's moments at junctions too. ePedal or regenerative braking takes time to get used to too but once you do it's great, ease off and let the car regenerate energy as you reach the traffic/junction. Adaptive Cruise Control is my most used feature with the ever-busier roads.

Like all change, you'll soon get used to it.

 

[Paul Glover]

Petrol based fuel must DIE. Or else we will, along with our planet.

Not entirely, we got to keep some! Not sure how I feel about companies converting old cars to electric. Not quite the same imo.

 

[BrunoBæ]

Baloney. But you believe this because, well you want to.

Don't Worry Be Happy.

 

[Paul Glover]

An interesting point of view

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

 

[Paul Glover]

Also this has just been announced: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de...-stoppt-verbrennungsmotoren-entwicklung-2019/

 

[David Wright]

We do not have the infrastructure to charge all this cars. .

Do you think they had petrol stations everywhere in the era of the horse? Surely no one is suggesting the move to electric cars will be instant. Automakers are already struggling to match demand for EVs. Supply of electric cars will not allow a rapid change over even if the charging points were available. In the UK internal combustion powered cars will still be on sale until 2040. It is going to be a gradual process, but IMO the writing is on the wall. EVs are the future.

 

[FinFan]

Do you think they had petrol stations everywhere in the era of the horse?

Of coursse, they didn't. The were also not proclaming 10 million cars and 300000 petrol stations within 10 years. Which is exactly what our Department of Transportation is saying regarding EVs. Our chancellor wanted a million until 2020 (which we won't reach), now she want's that number for 2022. I should say she wishes because I don't see even that happening. At the beginning of 2019 there were 83000 EVs registered in Germany and this year I estimate an additional 40000.
You are absolutely right that is has to be a gradual process. But while the sale of thoose cars is pushed I see no indication for that process to be balanced. As I said, it's not done by simply building 300000 charging points.
EVs are PART of the future. They are not THE future.