FM4 DTM World Cup S1

[Tom Moreno]

Welcome to the DTM World Cup, this is for licenced members only and will follow the official RD rules.

Cars: DTM German Touring Cars (A4 DTM, C-Class DTM, ABT TT-R, Astra V8)
Assists:
TCS (Traction control system): Banned
ABS (Anti-lock braking): Banned
STM (Stability Management): Banned
Racing/brake line: Allowed
Gearbox: Auto, Manual, Manual with Clutch: Allowed

Upgrades: All Cars up to R2 875
Setup: Allowed

Drivers: 16 Max allowed

Info

• Race meetings will consist of a qualifying session and feature race that consists of a number of laps aimed to be approximately 55 minutes in length with four longer endurance races of an 85 minute length mixed in.
• Races will be awarded points as per BTCC system with winner scoring 20 points. Clarification below.
• On normal feature races each player will be required to make at least one pit-stop with two pit-stops required for endurance races.
• Pole-sitter scores an extra point.
• Lobby will open at 8.15pm (UK Time) to allow for any connection issues.
• Qualifying begins promptly at 8.30 (UK) - anyone not joining in time will be able to start from the back of the grid.
• Qualifying is a 5 lap race with 10 second gap between starts, winner is best certified time.
• Damage will be off for this series as Forza has incorrectly modelled the penalty on aero for these cars, however extra attention will be paid to people who treat their and other peoples' cars as anything but the beautiful and fragile machines that they are.
• There will be a Teams' Championship in addition to the Drivers' Championship. There is also a prize fund for each championship with a minimum of 10 million XP in each kitty. Prizes for Teams' Championship are shared equally between both teammates.
• Events are bi-weekly on Monday nights.
• There will be a stewards' room and this will be manned by the 1st, 8th, and last placed points scorers based on the previous round's standings. If any of these people are one of the drivers under investigation the next position down (or ahead in the case of the last placed person) will assume stewardship for the incident in question. Incidents will be investigated upon referral to the Stewards Room thread. If your defence in a situation is that you did not see a car in your blind spot it is imperative that you save the replay so the stewards can examine your in-car view.
• There is a success ballast in this series where the top 4 drivers in the overall championship table will run with -5% grip for both races and qualifying.
• For the Driver's championship standings there will be two drop rounds where your two worst results from the season will be removed. This can serve to alleviate having to miss rounds due to other commitments or to forgive you for bad results in a long season.

Points

1st 20
2nd 17
3rd 15
4th 13
5th 11
6th 10
7th 9
8th 8
9th 7
10th 6
11th 5
12th 4
13th 3
14th 2
15th 1

Pole 1

Race Calendar

Round 1
Date: 23 April
Track: Twin Ring Motegi Full (2.98mi)
Laps: 29
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)

Round 2
Date: 7 May
Track: Sunset Peninsula Full (2.78mi)
Laps:39
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)


Round 3
Date: 21 May
Track: Circuit de Catalunya GP Circuit (2.89mi)
Laps: 31
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 4
Date: 4 June
Track: Le Mans Circuit de la Sarthe Full (8.48mi) Endurance
Laps: 22
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 5
Date: 25 June
Track: Silverstone Grand Prix (3.19mi)
Laps: 31
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)


Round 6
Date: 2 July
Track: Nürburgring Nordschleife Full (12.90mi) Endurance
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 7
Date: 16 July
Track: Laguna Seca Full (2.24mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 8
Date: 30 July
Track: Indianapolis Grand Prix (2.60mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 9
Date: 13 August
Track: Sebring International Full (2.78mi) Endurance
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 10
Date: 27 August
Track: Mugello Autodromo Full (3.26mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 11
Date: 17 September
Track: Nürburgring Grand Prix Full (3.22mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 12
Date: 1 October
Track: Road America Full (4.05mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 13
Date: 15 October
Track: Infineon Raceway Long (2.52mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 14
Date: 29 October
Track: Road Atlanta Full (2.54mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



Round 15
Date: 12 November
Track: Suzuka Full (3.61mi) Endurance
Laps: 44 Laps, 2x pitstop minimum
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)

Round 16
Date: 26 November
Track: Hockenheimring Full (2.84mi)
Laps:
Time: 8.30pm (UK Time)



How do I signup?
Please use the following template
Name on RD:
Gamertag:
Car you will be driving:

Player Car Numbers
Drivers who competed in the DTM North America Cup event will wear the numbers they earned from their finishing position in that series. New entrants will be assigned numbers from 15 onwards on a first-come, first-served basis.

Reserved Numbers


1 - Karl Raper - Raper Racing
2 - Chris Bell - Campana Racing Team
3 - Steve Freeman - Machine Freaks
4 - Dan Smith - Team 1
5 - Mike Raper - AMR Racing
6 - Mark Turner - BM Motorsport
7 - Tom Moreno - Campana Racing Team
8 - Alexander Macdonald - AMR Racing
9 - Paulo Ribeiro - Rubber Racing
10 - Bradley Capps-Jenner - BM Motorsport
11 - Andrew Skinner - Raper Racing
12 - Wayne Thomas - Machine Freaks
13 - Adrian Gibson - Rubber Racing
14 - Ryan Sylvester - Team 3
15 - Joe Lund - Team 1

Signed Up -

1 - Karl Raper - Raper Racing
2 - Chris Bell - Campana Racing Team
3 - Steve Freeman - Machine Freaks
4 - Dan Smith - Team 1
5 - Mike Raper - AMR Racing
6 - Mark Turner - BM Motorsport
7 - Tom Moreno - Campana Racing Team
8 - Alexander Macdonald - AMR Racing
10 - Bradley Capps-Jenner
11 - Andrew Skinner - Raper Racing
12 - Wayne Thomas - Machine Freaks
13 - Alex Townsend - ZeroRisk
16 - Tony Holder - Maxlength72

Reserve

 

[Bradley Capps-Jenner]

I'd love to do the championship, but I've really just got too much stuff on at the moment.

 

[Chris Bell]

Got a 1.23

 

[Mike Raper]

Hi guys, sorry I don't post much!! Looking forward to tonight, did some Practice laps and got into 1.23's too...

 

[Chris Bell]

Popped in a 1.22.7 a little earlier

 

[Alex Townsend]

Such a shame I'm at work till 6pm...

Will be at the back of the pack for this one I think...

 

[Steve Freeman]

Round - 2 Sunset.
Qualifying Report/Starting Position - Got a decent lap in on my first flyer then messed up the last 3 pushing a bit too hard but still good enough for pole.
Race Report - Starting from pole got a decent start, got my head down and pushed hard for the first few laps to build a gap, pitted at the end of lap 11, then just paced myself to the finish for my first win!!!
Round Summary
Although it was my first win it felt a bit false to be honest, i had decent pace i think but with Karls absence and Mike and Chris`s -5% grip it was a bit lonely, i`d much rather be mixing it up with all, the 5% loss of grip i think made a good second and a half difference to Mike n Chris`s lap times which to me seems a bit to much of a penalty, but no doubt i`ll find out next time.

 

[Alex Townsend]

Round - 2 Sunset.
Qualifying Report/Starting Position - Was happy to get a 1:29 as I'd been getting 1:30s in practice - Qualified in 7th so not last...
Race Report - Starting at the back I got an ok start, need to work on that as I think there was a fair bit of wheel spin.
Started off fairly confident until the aliens in front sped off. Took me a good 10 laps to get up to speed and then I was pumping in low 1:25s constantly. Thought I'd nab a 1:24 but it wasn't to be.
Pitted at some point near the beginning to get it over with so I could concentrate on getting into a rhythm.
Round Summary
Pretty lonely racing out there with only the company of the people lapping me for a brief couple of seconds... Was on the last lap but got a DNF as I didn't get to the finish line before the timer ran out...
Need to work on setup if I have time as I feel that after 20 or so laps I was consistent but just couldn't get anywhere near the front runners. Had no front grip on turn in and oversteer on exit...
Gears felt ok on the straights but I lost a lot of time on the slower corners.

 

[Wayne Thomas]

Round - 2 Sunset.

Qualifying Report/Starting Position - Started in 6th. Was 8th by first corner - I am crap at pulling away in these.

Race Report - Had a little better pace than Alex and Andrew and eventually managed to get in front of both when they had a little coming together. Managed to stay there. Kept 6th,only got lapped by my team mate.

Had some major offs which kept me from getting close to 5th. If damage was on I'd have been out by midrace after hitting the wall at end of finishing straight instead of turning (distracted by a domestic disturbance! Doh!) Almost did it 3 more times but those were my fault. If I had been faultless I may have gotten closer to Chris ....... Wouldn't have got past but it would have made a change.

Managed a 1:43 clean but this didn't show in the LB after the race - weird.

Regarding the top 3 penalty - its to keep it close to the end of the season and not just race by race isn't it ..... If you drop out the top three, you lose it (the penalty) but hopefully you soon get it back. ...... the smallish field magnifies such differences in performance? Maybe?

Enjoyed but rather lonesome for much of it.

 

[Tom Moreno]

Full report to come just wanted to get a quick comment out about the grip penalty issue. I am thinking about this and will be able to experience it first hand in the next race as I'm now 3rd in the championship table. :s I don't think it was a 1.5 second penalty, judging by the lap times Mike was able to put in I'd say it's a 1 sec penalty and Steve was a half second quicker than the aliens here!! There is part of me that thinks that this works and that over a 16 race season this will ensure a situation where there are multiple race winners and the alien pack isn't miles away from the mere mortals in the points. But I am happy to have an open discussion about this over the next two weeks.

 

[Chris Bell]

Round - Sunset Pen

Qualifying Report/Starting Position - Didnt have a bad quali but was off my fastest in testing by around 0.5s managed 3rd

Race Report - Got off the line badly and was mugged by tom into turn one, bradley and a few others went by before turn 2, Couldnt believe what was happening. The guys infront quickly put distance between us and that was really it. Had a complete lack of confidence in the car with it doing some very odd un-expected things. It was comparable to having damaged aero all around! Could see Wayne had the pace to catch but everytime he closed the gap it would jump up again. I had some shocking moments under braking where the car would snap at the initial brake point which caused me to knock the brake markers out at the tyre bridge, (apologies again). I somehow managed to jump up to 4th after something happend to Bradley, He was about 1000ft behind but began to close fast! We where side by side a few times. we got side by side round turn 2 heading for turn 3 on the final lap, neither one of us would back down as we hit the chicane i was on the inside then the outside. Brad took too much out of the kerb sending him towards the wall Finished 4th.

Round Summary - Very dissapointing round considering my testing pace. Going a lap down was the final nail in the coffin for me!! Cant remember the last time i was lapped! The car just wasnt enjoyable to drive, its a constant struggle between understeer on entry and masses of oversteer in the mid and exit, I think the controller user gets hammered by the current rules as you need to be much more progressive with steering and throttle and its just not possible on the pad!! To go a lap down due to a success penalty is crazy no to mention the struggle to keep the car pointing the right way.

 

[Tom Moreno]

The car just wasnt enjoyable to drive, its a constant struggle between understeer on entry and masses of oversteer in the mid and exit, I think the controller user gets hammered by the current rules as you need to be much more progressive with steering and throttle and its just not possible on the pad!! To go a lap down due to a success penalty is crazy no to mention the struggle to keep the car pointing the right way.

If everyone's in agreement I'm happy to change the top-3 penalty to 5% reduction in HP. This may mean a great reduction in straight line speed but at least the handling characteristics shouldn't be affected.

 

[Chris Bell]

If everyone's in agreement I'm happy to change the top-3 penalty to 5% reduction in HP. This may mean a great reduction in straight line speed but at least the handling characteristics shouldn't be affected.

I dont think that will work either Tom as we will go back to the class issues weve had before with varied brake distances etc IMO the only way we will fairly close the field is to fix setups!! Have 2 setups one that sets a certain time and one that set a slower time!! Eg less toe or less downforce and see where we go!! Lots of work but i cant see another way to do it!!

 

[Alex Townsend]

I dont think that will work either Tom as we will go back to the class issues weve had before with varied brake distances etc IMO the only way we will fairly close the field is to fix setups!! Have 2 setups one that sets a certain time and one that set a slower time!! Eg less toe or less downforce and see where we go!! Lots of work but i cant see another way to do it!!

I just need a setup! I think I only managed to change the gearing before I came on. It was great on the straights but found myself trying to upshift mid-corner at the final chicane which was a little off-putting...

Anyone got a decent base set up I could have a look at?

 

[Steve Freeman]

I dont think that will work either Tom as we will go back to the class issues weve had before with varied brake distances etc IMO the only way we will fairly close the field is to fix setups!! Have 2 setups one that sets a certain time and one that set a slower time!! Eg less toe or less downforce and see where we go!! Lots of work but i cant see another way to do it!!

How about copying the Civic setup, everyone has the same fixed setup then the top 5 or top 3 in quali have a 5% drop in hp, i think it pulls everyone closer together in the civics. Maybe do a test evening to try this out like we did with the Civics? I`m willing to send my sunset setup i used last night out to all, just an idea. Its just that I think me an Chris are of similar pace and maybe wont get to properly race as in the next race the roles will be reversed and Chris may end up lapping me.

 

[Tom Moreno]

How about copying the Civic setup, everyone has the same fixed setup then the top 5 or top 3 in quali have a 5% drop in hp, i think it pulls everyone closer together in the civics. Maybe do a test evening to try this out like we did with the Civics? I`m willing to send my sunset setup i used last night out to all, just an idea. Its just that I think me an Chris are of similar pace and maybe wont get to properly race as in the next race the roles will be reversed and Chris may end up lapping me.

There is one problem in this and that is that we already have 2 fixed setup championships on RD in the CWS and the Clio Cup, and the original idea behind getting the DTMs going was to have a series where we have to do the practice and setups. If we make every championship on RD a fixed-setup affair we will alienate the many people who actually enjoy tinkering and getting their setup right. Even though I'm not the quickest driver in the world, I really enjoy working on my setup for DTM. The other problem with fixed setup for DTM is that these cars are very sensitive and Chris and I have a great deal of experience passing setups back and forth between Wheel and Pad based drivers to know that it might actually be impossible to create a standard setup that works for both. And then do we create a new setup for every track we go to? I don't think I've every had a setup that worked the same on two tracks in these cars.

Back to the original discussion...
If you sit back and look at the results from last night (which will be posted soon) the championship picture now has Chris and Mike in joint 1st on 30 points and me in 3rd with 28 (if my memory is correct) with (I believe) Karl and Steve in joint 4th with 21 each. Therefore if you look at it across the span of the remaining 14 races it starts to dictate a picture where the top 3 in the table will regularly be shifting and changing and won't necessarily have the same three guys in it racing with the same penalty in every race, especially since we have more than 3 drivers who can fight to be within that second of each other's pace. This will especially be true when Dan's back with us and Mark starts racking up some more points as well. If this is the way it pans out it could make for a very interesting championship where the best will ultimately come through over the length of the season but the rest will feel as though they are able to fight within touching distance.

I think the main thing I haven't perhaps explained so well is that unlike what we tried last season for DTMs and what's working for CWS, the performance penalty that was devised for this series wasn't so much about individual race pace but conceived to produce results over the whole of the season and it is in that that I do feel the initial results look promising even if we could do a little tweaking.

Anyways that was supposed to be 2 pence that quickly turned into a couple of squid.

 

[Chris Bell]

I agree with you as far as the results are concerned my biggest issue is the difference between myself and Mike!! We are on a par normally but he was easily 1s quicker a lap bradley was at least 0.7s i was amazed how he closed a 1000ft gap in around 2 laps!! Its almost impossible to drive like that! No fun at all!! I just spent an hour getting very wound up! In all truth i was on the edge of parking it last night!! Im not one for even thinking about doing that but i was close!!

 

[Alex Townsend]

Welcome to my world!
I spent an hour wondering what in the h3ll I'll have to do to make up the 2 seconds a lap I'm slower than all you aliens!!!! lol

 

[Tom Moreno]

I agree with you as far as the results are concerned my biggest issue is the difference between myself and Mike!! We are on a par normally but he was easily 1s quicker a lap bradley was at least 0.7s i was amazed how he closed a 1000ft gap in around 2 laps!! Its almost impossible to drive like that! No fun at all!! I just spent an hour getting very wound up! In all truth i was on the edge of parking it last night!! Im not one for even thinking about doing that but i was close!!

This is why I'm open to changing the performance penalty to -5% HP as this would get rid of the massive change in handling that occurs with the grip reduction. In theory you would still be able to opt for a grip reduction by changing your upgrades on the car to the level 3 restrictor and less tyre width which after all is said and done would probably give you comparable HP (after the 5% reduction) and less but maybe more predictable grip. Sounds like we should have a test. Don't know when like, as between 3 races this week and life outside RD I don't have any spare time for the next 2.5 weeks!!!

 

[Chris Bell]

Lol agreed tom!! Let me know when u need me and al come test with you!!

 

[Tom Moreno]

Results posted after race 2