Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[Smoothchat]

I shouldn't read these posts.

I used to think that my motion base (v3) was rock solid when not in use, but I have found that it does have some "play" if I lean backwards in the seat.

Both left and right arms (that protrude from the unit just behind the switch) move / rotate about 1-2mm and the spring returns them. By the time you add the mechanical advantage leverage of the seat, you can feel this as you lean back and forth in the seat.

All the linkages are tight, just some internal gearing "play". Still way less play than I experience with my office chair and I don't notice it when playing. (And I wouldn't have given it any thought until it was raised here ;-)

I have been playing a lot of Dirt rally so I am hoping it's normal.

 

[anton_Chez]

It's normal. As I said my seat does move but I never notice it when driving without motion. It's a tiny bit of play.

 

[Smoothchat]

whew. Only had it a couple of weeks. I was hoping I wasn't wearing it out ;-)

Oh BTW, I fitted a ButtkickerGamer2 to my NLR seat. It makes a huge difference to Dirt Rally (I feel every ripple in the dirt) and Assetto Corsa with varying engine vibration, ripple strips and off tarmac (which of course, I should be avoiding ;-) It nicely adds to the existing motion elements provided by the motion platform and I highly recommend it to everyone.

It's just hard to find (at a reasonable price) and 240v versions are prettywell non-existent. I had to buy a 240/110 step down transformer with enough oomph (500W) to run the included amp (300w).

The remote control that comes with it is pretty much redundant once you get it adjusted correctly.

I use the Motion Platform software's built in tactile output via my onboard audio. (Game audio goes to my VR headset audio device, which frees up the internal audio, so no need for a separate audio card)

Once you enable the low pass filter and dial down to 40htz, you get a fabulous "rumble" with an occasional flicker of the red "peak" light, so it is prettywell running at optimal output, and that is plenty for me.

Motion and vibration in VR and FFB wheel. Pretty sweet ;-)

 

[Soulstoner]

I shouldn't read these posts.

I used to think that my motion base (v3) was rock solid when not in use, but I have found that it does have some "play" if I lean backwards in the seat.

Both left and right arms (that protrude from the unit just behind the switch) move / rotate about 1-2mm and the spring returns them. By the time you add the mechanical advantage leverage of the seat, you can feel this as you lean back and forth in the seat.

All the linkages are tight, just some internal gearing "play". Still way less play than I experience with my office chair and I don't notice it when playing. (And I wouldn't have given it any thought until it was raised here ;-)

I have been playing a lot of Dirt rally so I am hoping it's normal.

I plan on adding the platform to my daily rig which is used for other PC games and light computer work. Would you say the "play" in the seat would be annoying or distracting during non motion use?

 

[anton_Chez]

I'd challenge you to notice it during other activities, even racing, with the motion disabled or the platform completely turned off. I'm sitting here typing to you on it. It does a good job of holding the seat in place when not being raced in.

 

[sjb266]

Yeah mine feels like an unstable office chair.. like i'm going to lose my balance and keel over!

Like you said.. can't really notice when driving in games with motion on.. but there a few games I don't use the V3 on..
for example.. i can't use the V3 for R3E as i can't get rid of the sway/roll effect.. it's part of the weight transfer slider and i hate that effect..

So i'm really in limbo with this ATM..

The surge effect for braking is just amazing though and almost worth the price alone.. it makes braking just so much more realistic and accurate.. you can feel the weight transfer and therefore the threshold better.. i've been hitting apexes so much better..I wish that sector 3 would add surge parameters..

 

[anton_Chez]

Why do you want to get rid of sway/roll and why can't you manage to do it even if you wanted? It has it's own slider, and the new update states that moving the slider all the way to the left fully disables the effect instead of lowering it to only 20% as the previous versions did.

Clue me in, I'll have a look a little later, I'll fire it up.

 

[sjb266]

I don't like the sway roll effect as i find it very unrealistic.. and very unnatural.

When i was testing R3E.. there was no slider for Surge.. i turned all the slider's down one by one and found that the sway and roll was bundled into the weight transfer bias slider.. And i could not get rid of it..
Looking at the output data from R3E they don't output surge info..

 

[anton_Chez]

I'm going in now. Do you feel that you wouldn't feel forces on your body from the car's movement left and right through cornering when turning the wheel? What about when the ass starts to get a little loose? All of these effects are from sway/roll. I would suggest turning it down but not off, as I do agree that the movement in the platform can be a little excessive, and because our seat actually moves, rather than just the force being felt through our body (the real car would not move as much as our seat but the feeling would still be felt through the body).

Surge is the same as Pitch (not really, but with our platform being 2DOF, it acts on the same axis, and normally each sim only has EITHER Sway/Roll, Pitch/Surge, etc.). Try playing with the Pitch slider for your braking effect, and use the Weight Transfer Bias to strengthen either the thrust from acceleration, or the heave from braking. That's what that's there for, it shouldn't affect the roll axis.

 

[Smoothchat]

Yes, I think a little sway is very immersive. Essential for games like Dirt Rally as you drift around corners on dirt. I would not be cutting it completely. I tend to have it turned down around 80% in other games like AC.

Re: R3E.

At the moment, I am using the Platform Manager's built in tactile output and it doesn't look like PM supports R3E tactile info at the moment. R3E also didn't seem to have much road feel tactile info when I tried it. But that was when I had only just received the NLMv3 and had no idea what to tweak. I think I need to do a few more tests.

Which cars and tracks do you use in R3E?

I'm getting good results with Assetto Corsa tho. Driving the Lotus at Monza, if I tweak up the "Heave" setting I get to feel a lot of the road bumps and undulations which is very satisfying (especially in VR).

I guess the results vary from game to game, course to course, and car to car. A tweakers "paradise" or "hell" depending on what way you look at it.

 

[anton_Chez]

Yeah I agree Smooth, need a little of the things that you don't find particularly realistic, not cut them out completely. I get where sjb is coming from though, having the seat thrown left and right at sharp angles, especially left right left right, chicane style, is a little odd. But definitely keep some of it.

In regards to the R3E settings, you are indeed correct with the roll/sway effect. Very strange. Not even turning it down completely does it remove the effect if the weight transfer is geared towards braking, or even at neutral. It does however remove it if you have the weight transfer towards the acceleration side. Very odd. Perhaps a quick email to Motion Systems (who have been very helpful to me) will sort it out in the next patch. Just for reference, Automobilista definitely removes sway/roll when slider is at left most position, regardless of weight transfer bias. Must be R3E specific.

I am now taking some of the advice here and will be testing extra heave, and less roll/sway (maybe +.25 for heave and -.25 for sway/roll) to see if I can get a more subtle effect depending on the car. I know in open wheelers, the roll is savage, and very distracting, as it would be in the real cockpit. However the seat moving large distances can be off putting, so will return with some info maybe tomorrow this time. I have normally set everything to 1.00 and just left it, with bumps getting reduced in titles that are especially bumpy (hello rFactor 2), but now will try out a lesser more refined setting.

 

[anton_Chez]

Small update, I have done 2 things to fix this sway issue with R3E. First, I emailed Motion Systems, they are watching our threads and taking feedback from the users here. Very good to hear. Second, I have been able to tune out completely the sway roll effect. The trick is, when the platform is OFF, go into the settings for the title, and have a look at the sliders. There are more than when the platform is on. Some are hidden, I guess certain profiles hide settings depending on what sim it is and what platform you have. For instance, I never see Yaw active in any sim, yet it exists in nearly all if not completely all profiles. It's because we have 2DOF platform and Yaw would only ever be simulated via software algorithm rather than actually deployed by hardware.

So, turn off BOTH Roll and Sway, and then leave your weight transfer bias as you like it. It no longer controls the sway axis when adjusting the slider, as with both sway and roll disabled, the effect now is fully gone.

A reminder that when tuning our 2DOF platform, make sure to go into the hidden setting as well. For some reason at least some effects are still active even when hidden. Strange.

 

[sjb266]

Thanks so much Anthony.. It's working beautifully now. I really appreciate your help on this one..

I'm really loving the V3 with VR so far.. it's a great combo..

Thanks again mate

Simon

 

[anton_Chez]

No dramas mate. Love when I can help someone with a small but vital piece of info. I have also taken your advice and turned my roll setting down a little bit. Still have the feeling of movement but not as much throwing around in open wheelers and at high speeds in other cars. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

[rosgillies]

I have a V3 on a GT ultimate next level rig. 2 buttkicker transducers front and rear running off a 300 watt Earthquake amp. Software ver 2.65. Simvibe software for buttkickers in ETS2 ATS etc. I use the tactile in asseto corsa as it is better. IMO. Thrustmaster t500rs and TH8a shifter. Oculus Rift CV1 and logitech Z906 5.1 sound.
Intel 6700k@4.6mhz watercooled. GTX 1080 and 16gig ram.
Corsa in VR on my kit, well it`s probably the closest experience to driving a real Ferrari or Lamborghini I`ll ever get. See what you can have if you dont piss your pension up against the wall on a Friday night. Any body in the Leicester area UK who is interested in this kind of setup would be welcome to see mine.

 

[Smoothchat]

See what you can have if you dont piss your pension up against the wall on a Friday night.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[rosgillies]

My thoughts exactly.

Very kind Hic!!!

 

[Steve D]

Hi,

Virgin sim-rig builder here, (or I will be once it's delivered), so please be gentle!

I'm really interested in the V3 and have found this thread so informative so can anyone give me any pointers please with regards fitting the V3 to a Sim-Labs P1 chassis / Sparco seat, (mounted on side brackets plus slider) and what I would likely need to consider.

https://sim-lab.eu/product/p1-chassis/
https://sim-lab.eu/product/sparco-pro-2000-lf-bucket-seat/

Can someone also please advise how high approximately the seat is raised by and whether this would naturally result in the pedals having to be raised by the same distance. (If relevant I have the Fanatec Clubsport V3 set up) However FWIW, the very helpful guys at Sim-Lab have mentioned that I could actually place the seat lower in the chassis if needs be by securing the seat bracket mounting profiles inside the chassis frame. (They are shown sitting on top in the pics)

Can I also ask whether the seat slider can still be left in situ with the V3 in place or will I need to remove this?

Many thanks!

Mac

 

[anton_Chez]

Hey Mac,

Good to hear you're interested in the V3, and welcome to the world of rig building !

So, with the mounting of the unit, it comes with side brackets that mount to it and get it up off of the floor. Your seat then goes directly (or onto the sub frame if you so wish) onto the motion platform. With my set up, I have the rig that Next Level sell as a bundle, and it works well. It's basically 2 separate parts (front end and back end) connected together in the middle. With that rig you're looking at, you would need to almost sit the unit inside the space where the seat is shown in the picture.

Alternatively, you may be able to forgo the mounting brackets that come with the platform, and use your rig as a mount. This would need holes drilled at the precise points where the mount holes are on the V3 platform. I wouldn't see that as a huge problem at all, as it has to rest on something, it doesn't have to be the mounts that come with it.

Your slider goes directly onto under your seat that is then connected to the platform. You alternatively could use your rig (if it has that adjustment) to just move forward and back, and not move the seat on sliders at all. This of course would mean that the platform is moving in that adjustment also.

I've often wondered how other rigs would handle mounting the V3. I think the easiest way is to build a front end that houses your wheel, pedals and screens, and have that SURROUND the back end, which would be your motion platform on it's mounting brackets, independent of the rest of the rig. An 80/20 rig would be ideal for this, as most other rigs that come as one unit would probably struggle to accommodate a motion platform such as this one, without a custom made allowance and mount by either manufacturer.

edit: also, the bottom of the seat with the standard mounts sits around a foot from the floor. I have my seat directly mounted to the platform, sub frame was omitted when I upgraded my seat which dropped the height around an inch or so.

 

[Steve D]

Anton,

That's fantastic and thank you for such a detailed response. That's really good of you.

I'll have a more thorough read later but having had a quick scan, what you are saying makes sense even without me having built the rig yet.

So thank you for helping me spend even more money during these dark, post-Brexit times!

All the best,

Mac.