Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[anton_Chez]

Hey guys, happy to contribute to a thread with motion settings. It definitely would be beneficial if there were a more formal method of setup sharing ala Simvibe and Simcommander, but for now I guess as Smooth said this is as good as it gets.

I basically leave everything on 1.00 for now, for all sims except for RBR which I feel being as old as it is, needs bumping up to bring out the movement in the platform. Everything else feels really good. Some prefer to turn the overall setting to under 1.00 and at first I thought this also, but once you get accustomed to the movement, you can run it at 1.00 no problems, Dirt games I tend to increase the Surge as well to 1.20. I think it's under represented in relation to the rest of the movement, but that may be because a) the cars are only 300hp and therefore may not have much thrust as a GT car and the like and b) braking on gravel and snow would not yield as much grip and therefore not as much forward pitch as when braking from 280kph on tarmac at the end of a straight. My thoughts on it anyway.

One concern I did have that I was hoping other V3 users could help me test is on the No Limits 2 roller coaster simulator. I have recently gone VR also (HIGHLY recommended coming from a long time skeptic) and this has been an awesome title to show off to friends and family with motion. However, my platform runs into issues and shuts down mid coaster, most likely due to excessive movement as a built in safety cut off. I have tried tuning it down (the forward pitch seems to be the culprit) but it still seems to do it. It's getting to the point where it's almost not worth having pitch activated at all such is the level I have to turn it down to pass through the full coaster. If anyone has any tips on tuning for this, or has been able to pass full roller coasters on 1.00 intensity or higher with no issues, please let me know. I have contacted Motion Systems and NLR and am awaiting replies. Motion Systems seem to think that I can tune to relax the safety mechanism, maybe a custom firmware could be made for me. Small chance that the platform is defective or just a little more fussy than others with the same platform. I would also settle for limiting the range of movement in the forward pitch direction so that it only uses 70% or so of the forward travel, thus allowing me to run an intensity closer to 1.00 without moving the seat too far.

Any feedback is welcome. Also calling out @blanes and @HoiHman for some feedback as I know they own this platform. Cheers guys.

 

[Smoothchat]

Thanks AntoN_CheZ
On the subject of adjustments, I'm interested to understand exactly how the "Overall" slider works. If I put that down to zero, I still get bump motion effects. I thought that slider affected all the settings in a linear fashion, but apparently not. Looking at the script files didn't reveal anything as the sliders seem to work with the motion driver and not the scripts.

Also, suppose you have Raceroom activated, has anyone noticed that if you start the Platform Manager with the platform turned off, you get all the sliders available. (boot with the platform switched off). When you turn the platform on, some of the sliders disappear. (namely Swap and Surge) in the case of Raceroom.

I guess not all the required data is being provided discretely by Raceroom so the devs hide these options.

If I adjust the sway and surge down (before they disappear when I turn on the platform), the adjustments work ! Although (and I might be imagining this), the seat seems to return to a slight left slant rather than level as I play the game. I guess with 2DOF there is a lot of interpolation going on to simulate all the motions and the devs have chosen to hide the sway and surge settings. The only way I can adjust them is to use the "Overall" slider, but I am not sure what this is doing to the rest of the settings as the overall slider doesn't behave exactly as I expect (see start of this post).

 

[anton_Chez]

On the subject of adjustments, I'm interested to understand exactly how the "Overall" slider works

Hey Smooth. Not sure about the way the overall slider affects things as it gets turned all the way down. I tinker with so many things that playing with things I am completely never going to do or use is just common sense for me! I spend more time trying to achieve a perfect environment to drive and race in that I don't get half as much time in the seat as I should.

Your assumption of the sliders disappearing sounds mostly correct. Personally I wouldn't try and tune settings that the software deems unfit for purpose and then hope to have desirable results. Being a 2DOF platform, some of the effects overlap on the 2 axis and depending which is made available to adjust (say, either Pitch or Surge, same axis) the net effect would be nearly the same on our setup. The platform may interpret surge a little different from pitch, but it would be hard to notice in a real world scenario while racing. Ideally, Surge would come out a lot stronger on acceleration, as your front wheels should not be leaving the ground, and it's the push/thrust forward rather than the lift that a real car would translate to your body. Lift would relate to Pitch and thrust would relate to Surge.

The overall slider does a good job of scaling the strength of movement that the platform works at. The individual sliders are good for highlighting a particular effect outside of the linear curve that the overall should dictate. Until the latest drivers the program did not actually disable the effect when moving the slider all the way left, it reduced it to about 20% effectiveness or so. Now, they have stated that it basically removes the effect completely when all the way left. Perhaps they neglected Bumps in the update as they are not bound to a specific axis as all the other sliders would be? Just a suggestion and a likely oversight on Motion Systems that handle the software development.

 

[Smoothchat]

Thanks AntoN_CheZ ,

I have come across another oddity.

I was playing Dirt Rally in VR and absolutely loving it.
Then I tried playing it in standard screen (non-VR) mode and have discovered that I have no Sway effect when in non VR.

I literally change nothing other than to plug/unplug my Rift.

With the Rift enabled, I get beautiful sway around corners. Without the Rift, I seem to only get Pitch/Surge, and no Sway.

Using the diagnostics tools, I see that there IS Sway data, but the platform is not responding to it.

No wonder VR seems so much better if that effect is missing when in nonVr mode.

I have reported this to Next level, but would rather get the info back directly to the dev team.

It could well be a bug in Dirt Rally, or a difference in the way it delivers the motion data between VR and nonVR modes.

Geez I wish we had a dedicated forum for this sort of stuff.

On a related subject, after playing Dirt Rally, I find that other race sims lack fine road bumps rumble and they feel way too smooth. I notice this with PCars. Raceroom does a better job with occasional road bumps, but I am wondering if there is another racing sim which does a better job of the finer motion details to give more road "feel".

 

[HoiHman]

I would love to turn up the intensity, but also limited the maximum movement of both axis. Too big movements do not feel realistic.

A dedicated "shift-up effect" in on my wish list too.

Raceroom does a great job with the roadbumps. Buttkickers really complete the NLMv3 as they add a lot of detail which the NLMv3 can produce like road feel and small bumps. The awesome impact of a big LFE when you ride the curbs, can't be replicated with a motion system.

A decicated forum would be great.

 

[Smoothchat]

I thought a buttkicker was just a mounted subwoofer running off the Low Frequency audio, but is it more than that? Does it get it's own dedicated road ruimble small bump signal that the motion platform doesn't get? I guess if the answer is yes,I suppose it depends on which racing game you are playing and whether it supports it. In any case, I guess I should look into getting one.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

I thought a buttkicker was just a mounted subwoofer running off the Low Frequency audio, but is it more than that? Does it get it's own dedicated road ruimble small bump signal that the motion platform doesn't get? I guess if the answer is yes,I suppose it depends on which racing game you are playing and whether it supports it. In any case, I guess I should look into getting one.

A Buttkicker takes the same telemetry as the motion signals and does indeed convert it into bumps, engine noise, gear changes, road texture. It's the same sort of vibration feeling you get through your car seat while driving in real life. The Buttkicker must be run off it's own audio card which so the signal is separated from normal game audio.

 

[Smoothchat]

Ah. Thanks. I assume that we are using SimVibe with the buttkicker otherwise I guess it behaves like a subwoofer.

I wonder if ....

I Play the racing sim in VR. The Headset USB Audio is the default audio device.

Does this mean that my OnBoard audio (Realtek) is available to assign to simvibe/buttkicker?

As test, I have tried simulating this within the platform manager tactile feedback function, but I get nothing out of the onboard audio, even tho I have set the headset as the default audio device.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Ah. Thanks. I assume that we are using SimVibe with the buttkicker otherwise I guess it behaves like a subwoofer.

I wonder if ....

I Play the racing sim in VR. The Headset USB Audio is the default audio device.

Does this mean that my OnBoard audio (Realtek) is available to assign to simvibe/buttkicker?

As test, I have tried simulating this within the platform manager tactile feedback function, but I get nothing out of the onboard audio, even tho I have set the headset as the default audio device.

The latest Next Level Motion software recently added Buttkicker support so Simvibe isn't needed. It's under Tools > Tactile Feedback configuration. Yes you can assign the basic motherboard onboard sound card like the Realtek to be the Buttkicker output. That's how I've set mine up. For normal audio I use USB speakers.

 

[Smoothchat]

Thanks.

Well as a test, I assigned my VR headset as the default audio device, then set my Motherboard audio as the Tactile feedback device (and just left my speakers attached for the moment)

If I click the "Test" buttons, I get a buzz sound in the speakers, however when I play Raceroom or Dirt Rally, there was no output.

What games work with the Tactile feedback?

 

[anton_Chez]

Your rift audio is coming from HDMI, I presume? Not sure how that works, as I don't have Nvidia audio enabled, so not sure how I am getting sound now that I think about it! I have a dedicated SC for my audio (headset usually) and I run 4x Aura Bass Shakers from the Realtek onboard. I really am spoiled here. I have VR, motion, and simvibe in chassis mode. It's ***king amazing when it's all going. Like having 2 without the 3rd there always feels like something missing. No matter which you leave out. All 3 is brilliant.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Thanks.

Well as a test, I assigned my VR headset as the default audio device, then set my Motherboard audio as the Tactile feedback device (and just left my speakers attached for the moment)

If I click the "Test" buttons, I get a buzz sound in the speakers, however when I play Raceroom or Dirt Rally, there was no output.

What games work with the Tactile feedback?

Tactile feedback should work with all the games as it's using the same telemetry used for motion. I still use Simvibe and haven't tested the Next Level software tactile yet, I just noticed it appeared in the latest update. I'll try it and report back later using my single transducer setup. The fact you're trying use a normal speaker could be the issue. A transducer isn't a regular speaker and runs off a dedicated powered amp.

 

[Smoothchat]

Thanks Jeremy, I would expect to see some movement of the speaker least, or some indication in the windows audio config window (output level indicator bars) that there is some output happening. I see this when I click the "test" buttons, but nothing in game.

The next problem is to actually get a buttkicker. 240v versions don't seem to be available anymore, and the US site doesn't ship internationally.

 

[Mr Latte]

Easy way to combine a "tactile soundcard", "game audio soundcard" and USB headphones or HDMI VR would be to have.

• A dedicated soundcard for Simvibe or alternative Tactile software
• Motherboard onboard audio for either Simvibe EM (secondary) or speaker audio
• USB soundcard for speakers (if onboard being used)
  
• USB headphones
  
• HDMI VR

This way you can easily swap between having the "Primary Audio Device" as speakers, headphones or VR headset.

Interested to see screens and options for the new tactile addition in what it offers compared to other tactile software such as Simvibe or SSW at this current time.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Thanks Jeremy, I would expect to see some movement of the speaker least, or some indication in the windows audio config window (output level indicator bars) that there is some output happening. I see this when I click the "test" buttons, but nothing in game.

The next problem is to actually get a buttkicker. 240v versions don't seem to be available anymore, and the US site doesn't ship internationally.

Yeah same problem, the test works in the control panel but nothing coming through while in game. Tested in RaceRoom, which sim did you try? There are alternatives to Buttkickers, which country are you in?

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Easy way to combine a "tactile soundcard", "game audio soundcard" and USB headphones or HDMI VR would be to have.

• A dedicated soundcard for Simvibe or alternative Tactile software
• Motherboard onboard audio for either Simvibe EM (secondary) or speaker audio
• USB soundcard for speakers (if onboard being used)
  
• USB headphones
  
• HDMI VR

This way you can easily swap between having the "Primary Audio Device" as speakers, headphones or VR headset.

Interested to see screens and options for the new tactile addition in what it offers compared to other tactile software such as Simvibe or SSW at this current time.

Looks like this....

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for posting, can you also show settings to control or determine what the effects do, regards the frequencies output or how effects may vary from one to another, if indeed it offers such.

This looks simple and tidy to use but I doubt has the capability that Simvibe can bring with the "tone generation" and "user controls" it offers, albeit with a dated and rather limited interface.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Thanks for posting, can you also show settings to control or determine what the effects do, regards the frequencies output or how effects may vary from one to another, if indeed it offers such.

This looks simple and tidy to use but I doubt has the capability that Simvibe can bring with the "tone generation" and "user controls" it offers, albeit with a dated and rather limited interface.

That's actually virtually the entire menu. The only option cut off is the sound card selection drop down menu off the top. Further down is more outputs (max 8 transducers). So it's all very simple. Sadly it doesn't seem to work in game so have no idea how it compares to Simvibe. Simvibe lets to you dial the strength of the effects, where it's not possible here so Simvibe has the advantage.

Pressing 'Test' does make a decent rumble but that's as much as I've got out of this.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks Jeremy appreciate it.
While it may not be upto what is possible it could well be a good addition.
Have you set the sound card for this as 7.1 channel?

 

[HoiHman]

The tactile support in platform manager ( which controls the NLMv3) is pretty basic.

If you invest so much in a motion platform, i believe you should spend the extra cash and get simvibe. It's well worth the money.