BUILD LOG: Racing + Flying VR Rig

Callsign BH · Dec 31, 2020

Hello all! New sim racer here and looking to start a bit of a build log for a couple reasons:

It seems like you guys like this stuff like I do
Because I know I am going to need some guidance and input along the way

Before I get into the present and future of my build, first I'd like to briefly share a bit of background. I'm 100% new to sim racing (currently focusing on ACC only, as I love GT3 cars), but I'm not new to simming in general...

BACKGROUND

Around mid 2014 I heard about Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) and given I spent my entire adolescence wanting to be a fighter pilot (before the Navy told me the dream was dead due to me being red/green colorblind) it seemed like something that might be relevant to my interests. Boy was I right! As I assume most of you have experienced, I quickly fell down that peripheral rabbit hole. Said "rabbit hole" become more of a "black hole" that I was falling down at hyperspeed, and the rest is history. From one HOTAS to the next, I ended up becoming very enthralled with the high-end boutique peripherals. Over the ~6 years since I started on DCS, I've gone through waves of being on and off with playing - "off" times being mostly due to my career taking too much of my time and/or other personal life obligations - and I've ebbed and flowed with my level of seriousness with playing. I've joined virtual squadrons and fought in the SATAL league there, I've read military flight manuals front to back to learn more about operating the jets, etc. To this day I still retain a love and enjoyment for DCS, although I haven't played much the past year or so.

Around June of 2020, after years of thinking "I should get into sim racing" (and being told as much by some of my flight sim buddies), I started to get serious about it. Again, I fell down that rabbit hole and became determined to get a racing rig put together. The twist this time was that my wife and I were expecting our first child in July, and we had just bought a new home that was undergoing a lot of renovations...plus there was a small global pandemic going on. Not exactly optimal timing, but life rarely lines up perfectly, so I said "Screw it" and proceeded ahead anyway. With the learnings from my flight sim hardware shenanigans, I subscribed to the "Buy Once, Cry Once" philosophy from day 1 here with the racing build.

I had never sim raced before, but I own an AMG and have always loved fast cars. In 2018, I did an AMG Academy Track Day @ Leguna Seca which was incredible and gave me confidence that I would love sim racing the same as I do flight simming. That day I was told by "Nipper" (my instructor for the day) that I "was a natural", but still I never took the leap to get a racing rig put together. Now that has changed...

PRESENT DAY BUILD

At the end of July, after the baby had arrived, I started ordering the racing rig hardware and checking hourly for the out of stock items to come back into stock. Below is what I settled on for the build and I ordered as soon as the items came back into stock:

Rig: SimLab P1-X (Black)
- Add-ons: SimFeet + Seat Rails + Seat Slider + Keyboard Tray + Mouse Tray + Cup Holders
Pedals: Wave Italy WAVE FORCE MONZA - SIM PEDALS PRO
- I ordered the 2 pedal set with no clutch, as I have 0 intentions of ever racing a car that doesn't use clutch paddles
Direct Drive Base: SIMUCUBE 2 Pro
Rim: Ascher Racing F-28 Wireless
- I wanted the F-64 but ran out of patience in waiting for Martin to get this back into stock
- I might add a new rim in soon, but TBD (would be a F-64 or a Gomez rim)
Seat: Sparco Evo II QRT

The Ascher rim took the longest to come back into stock, which was painful, but by the end or end of October I finally had everything I needed. Those few months of waiting were rough. Unfortunately, the waiting didn't stop there as our new home had some undisclosed water damage/issues in the basement, which required a very costly waterproofing system to be installed. This also meant that the finishes of the basement needed to be totally ripped out as they dug the perimeter of the cement up to install all of that. While this was quite costly, it did mean that I had a clean slate to work with for remodeling my man cave...so that is exactly what I did.

The contractors were here for a month or so getting all of that done, and at this point everything is mostly finished besides some things I am going to DIY myself, and then having the painters come (which we cancelled in early December due to COVID spiking again, and we will likely have them come in the Spring once things hopefully have settled down).

Here are some photos of the build....

PROGRESS SHOTS:

FINAL PRODUCT:

I have since cleaned up all the wires with some TLC on cable management. I will get more photos of that up soon.

NEXT STEPS:

Add a pedal slider to the racing pedals
Add tactile feedback to the rig
Add my flight sim peripherals to the rig
Build button boxes for both racing and flight
Add motion

With the guidance of @Mr Latte , I've gotten a small start on adding tactile feedback to the rig. Yesterday I ordered a Behringer NX3000D + 2x ButtKicker Concerts. Configuration of the two BK-CT's is TBD, but I am likely going to add one to the seat and one to the pedals. Unfortunately, the amp is on backorder under the end of January (yay, more waiting!) but once that is here it will mark the next big progress I am able to make on the rig. Once I get this all set up, I will work on adding anywhere from 4-8 exciters onto the seat. On my old flight setup, I used a JetSeat SE from Andre, which was very nice, but I know it will pale in comparison to what I am working on for this build.

Regarding adding my flight sim equipment to the P1-X, I still have some more thinking/planning to do on this one. Since we all love photos, here are some shots of my current gear...

FLIGHT GEAR:

Rig: WheelStandPro for TM Warthog
- Add-ons: Left Side RSG module
Pedals: Slaw RX Vipers
- Add-ons: Motorcycle damper
Throttle: Custom made Throttletek F/A-18C throttle
- Add-ons: Made with Halls sensor instead of a standard pot, and I procured ~$500+ worth of custom switches for them to use in the build, these are the OTTO mil-spec switches that are used in the real jet
Stick Base: Virpil VPC T-50 base
- Add-ons: Sahaj 15cm Black extension
Grip: Thrustmaster F/A-18C Replica
- I also have my old A-10C/F-16 Warthog grip from when I had a TM Warthog HOTAS

I've got some plans to change some of this stuff up a bit as well, but one step at a time...

Regarding the button boxes, I have about $1500 worth of mil-spec switches, rotaries, and other misc stuff that I purchased when I was planning to build a 1:1 replica cockpit of a F/A-18C Hornet. These are mostly Honeywell and EATON/Cutler Hammer, and are incredibly high quality with a great tactile feel. I've also got a landing gear handle from a GR-4 Tornado fighter jet that I will need to build into one of the botton boxes as well, as well as a landing HOOK handle. My point here is that I've got a lot of the materials already on hand that I can use for a racing box, I'll just need to add a few things here or there maybe.

While I've never soldered a thing in my life, and am largely not "handy" whatsoever, I did acquire all the necessary soldering equipment before...despite never finding the time to use any of it

Hopefully that changes in 2021, but I'm not so sure given it seems that newborns take quite a bit of your free time, and I've got a lot already on my plate. Someday, though.

That is all for now....the baby needs fed again...but I hope you've enjoyed reading. I'll get the specs of my rig and VR put up sometime soon. Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and feedback!

Happy New Year to all!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit to add PC specs:

GAMING RIG:

GPU: Nvidia RTX 3090 Founders Edition
CPU: Intel i7-9700K
- Still searching daily for a AMD 5900X to come into stock and allow me 2 seconds to be able to add it to my cart before the scalpers, and which point I will just go ahead and update the mobo, RAM, AIO, etc.
Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Master
AIO Cooler: Corsair H115i RGB Platinum
RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200
Monitor: Dell U3415W Curved 3440x1440
VR HMD: Reverb G2

Callsign BH · Nov 2, 2021

metalnwood said:
Why dont you ask Mr latte a question, like - if I attached a plate under my seat mounts would that be compatible with a proposed racebase installation, i.e. would he envision that then mounting direct on to racebase isolators?

You could be waiting 6 months, or more, who knows, not using your gear. A setup that is not ideal and not isolated is still a lot better with that gear than one with none and I am sure you could do something that would just pop on top of the racebase stuff when ready. Ultimately, up to you though

Certainly very fair points. I’ll need to see how quickly I’m able to complete all the other modifications/work with the cables and stuff (unfortunately I work long hours, have a 15 month old with another on the way, and various home renovations going on — suffice it to say, free time amounts aren’t what they once were), then I’ll have to make a call on whether I just do a temporary solution. I’m not opposed to rigging something easy up knowing it’s a short term solution.

I’m motivated to make as much free time as I can, so hopefully I can get all that miscellaneous stuff wrapped up sooner rather than later…but also want to use a little bit of said free time to race as well.

I’ve got a ton of days off left to use around the holidays once some deals close, so mid to end of December should be productive. Until then, no idea how much progress I’ll make.

metalnwood · Nov 2, 2021

Callsign BH said:
Certainly very fair points. I’ll need to see how quickly I’m able to complete all the other modifications/work with the cables and stuff (unfortunately I work long hours, have a 15 month old with another on the way, and various home renovations going on — suffice it to say, free time amounts aren’t what they once were), then I’ll have to make a call on whether I just do a temporary solution. I’m not opposed to rigging something easy up knowing it’s a short term solution.

I’m motivated to make as much free time as I can, so hopefully I can get all that miscellaneous stuff wrapped up sooner rather than later…but also want to use a little bit of said free time to race as well.

I’ve got a ton of days off left to use around the holidays once some deals close, so mid to end of December should be productive. Until then, no idea how much progress I’ll make.

If free time is not good, yes you may never get to the point of getting ready

Mine are a lot older now, a 15 month old can be a real hobby killer

Callsign BH · Nov 2, 2021

metalnwood said:
If free time is not good, yes you may never get to the point of getting ready

Mine are a lot older now, a 15 month old can be a real hobby killer

Lol that is for certain…and with #2 coming in March, I know I’ll be in “free time jail” for the foreseeable future. Both girls, but praying one of them loves sim racing (or flying) so we can do it together.

That said…escaping to the man cave and getting on the rig helps to keep me sane though

Callsign BH · Nov 5, 2021

Slightly OT update, but relevant to the "flight sim" side of my thread. Here is a photo dump of some of the cooler items I purchased back in 2018-2019 but have yet to put to use. Someday I will find a way to get some button boxes built to add a hybrid race/flight version of left and right consoles (button boxes), as well as left and right vertical boxes.

Style wise, I think I'd like to mimic something close to the Grid-Engineering look -- slim profile, and nice and tidy.

output-onlinepngtools_1_1024x1024@2x.png

Pulling these over from an old flight rig log I had elsewhere.

Milspec Honeywell, Eaton Cutler Hammer, and Otto switches (I've got probably 40+ of these; some are basic 2-way On-Off, 3-way On-Off-On, and 3-way On-Off-On momentary...some are the fancier once used for specific functions in jets, such as landing light switch, master arm, etc.):

Unused landing gear handles from a real fighter jet (I have 2, one intended for landing gear and one to be modded for a landing hook). I also purchased the milspec Amphenol connectors to be able to wire them up. Apologies for the cheesy "Mercedes AMG" steering wheel in the pic, I took this in the parking lot after picking it up at the post office years ago when I was excited it finally arrived):

Milspec OTTO push buttons used in the real jets:

All of the components to build this replica "Ejection Handle":

Selective Jettison Knob (3D printed) on a Grayhill rotary, 5 position with the proper distance between stops for the F/A-18C knob (and I believe F-16 also):

For the left side, with my F/A-18C throttle, I had previously designed this (the first and only thing I ever 3D designed in Fusion 360, and a terrible job it was haha) -- but thought about doing something like this. I think I can do a smaller slim version like the Grid though. And then I would attach it to the addition of profile I'll add to the left side of my rig, with a hinge to swing it open and shut. I would definitely make it smaller, and not made of wood, but would need to figure out the best material to use for it.

Tom_Hampton · Nov 5, 2021

NIce.

My dad was in the Navy back in 74-76. He acquired all kinds of surplus A7 and A4 parts including a slightly used A7 Ejection seat complete except for the propulsion, flight stick and throttle assy. They are all still in his garage attic, carefully hidden away from my Mother's eyes....she's certain they have long been donated / sold / thrown away. He's also got a flight suit and helmet from the same era up there somewhere.

Callsign BH · Nov 10, 2021

Brief update for today…

2x Clark TST-429’s arrived yesterday, but I now need to figure out how these get wired up so I can order the parts needed. I have no idea what this cable coming out of them is even supposed to be plugged in to. So much to learn!

Also ordered a heat gun after my first experience soldering to do the fan mod on the NX3000D — wasn’t a huge fan of using a lighter on the heat shrink. Figured this would be a useful quality of life investment, and will have other uses as well. I did a lot of research on Google, reading reviews, and generally saw the Dewalt one as #1 and the order I ordered as #2 (sometimes ratings were flipped). This was 1/3 of the price and comes with some nice attachments, so figured I’d give it a shot.

SEEKONE Heat Gun 1800W Heavy Duty... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078S5QMFG?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

metalnwood · Nov 10, 2021

I went for these two items to wire up all of my transducers.
The speakon connector is wired directly to the end of the TST wire and the extender allows you to then plug it in directly to the seakon cable coming from your amp.

I did it like this so that if I need to lift my seat out I could easily disconnect all transducers and lift it out without long lengths of wires attached to the seat.

Home

Neutrik NL4MMX speakON Cable To Cable Adapter 4-PoleNeutrik has engineered the 3rd generation of their world standard professional amplifier/loudspeaker connectors with speakON SPX Series Professional Loudspeaker and Amplifier Connectors.This new series of speakON connectors feature a higher...

www.parts-express.com

https://www.parts-express.com/Neutrik-NL2FX-SpeakON-Connector-2-Pole-Cable-Mount-092-198

I am assuming that coming from your amps to the transducers you would be using cables like this

Home

Pyle PPSS50 Speakon Type Speaker Cable 50 ft.This 50 foot Speakon-type cable by Pyle is perfect for both professional and casual users. Pyle Pro cables deliver premium performance without noise, static, or buzzing and come with a one-year manufacturer warranty. 4-pole ends, 2 poles wired (+1/-1).

www.parts-express.com

Callsign BH · Nov 10, 2021

metalnwood said:
I went for these two items to wire up all of my transducers.
The speakon connector is wired directly to the end of the TST wire and the extender allows you to then plug it in directly to the seakon cable coming from your amp.

I did it like this so that if I need to lift my seat out I could easily disconnect all transducers and lift it out without long lengths of wires attached to the seat.

Home

Neutrik NL4MMX speakON Cable To Cable Adapter 4-PoleNeutrik has engineered the 3rd generation of their world standard professional amplifier/loudspeaker connectors with speakON SPX Series Professional Loudspeaker and Amplifier Connectors.This new series of speakON connectors feature a higher...

www.parts-express.com

https://www.parts-express.com/Neutrik-NL2FX-SpeakON-Connector-2-Pole-Cable-Mount-092-198

I am assuming that coming from your amps to the transducers you would be using cables like this

Home

Pyle PPSS50 Speakon Type Speaker Cable 50 ft.This 50 foot Speakon-type cable by Pyle is perfect for both professional and casual users. Pyle Pro cables deliver premium performance without noise, static, or buzzing and come with a one-year manufacturer warranty. 4-pole ends, 2 poles wired (+1/-1).

www.parts-express.com

So I snip the end of the wires coming out of the TST, and add the Neutrik SpeakON connector to that. That makes sense.

But then the extender, that SpeakON I just added plugs into the extender on one end, and the other end runs to my amp — right?

I think that’s how I understand it…but it doesn’t look like the two items you suggested would plug into each other?

metalnwood · Nov 10, 2021

Here are a couple pictures how it comes together, you can see the wire from the tst in one of the speakon connectors.

Callsign BH · Nov 10, 2021

metalnwood said:
Here are a couple pictures how it comes together, you can see the wire from the tst in one of the speakon connectors.
View attachment 516537 View attachment 516538

Totally understood now, thank you so much! I was missing (in my mental design) that middle piece

metalnwood · Nov 10, 2021

Ah OK, it was in the link but seeing how the forum showed the links, it looks like one rather than two beside each other.

Callsign BH · Nov 10, 2021

metalnwood said:
Ah OK, it was in the link but seeing how the forum showed the links, it looks like one rather than two beside each other.

I opened the link, just didn't conceptualize it. The "middle connector" (i.e. speakON Cable To Cable Adapter) I was thinking of/seeing it as the thing I needed to fix to the end of the wire coming out of the TST wires.

In reality I'll need that speakON Cable To Cable Adapter plus one of the other attachments you linked first to put on the end of my TST-429 red/black wires.

Edit:

My own future reference, here is the video explaining how to do this

metalnwood · Nov 10, 2021

Callsign BH said:
I opened the link, just didn't conceptualize it. The "middle connector" (i.e. speakON Cable To Cable Adapter) I was thinking of/seeing it as the thing I needed to fix to the end of the wire coming out of the TST wires.

In reality I'll need that speakON Cable To Cable Adapter plus one of these first to put on the end of my TST-429 red/black wires:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005EKMGO4/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_DF8R1SHDNSX912TPWBVC

Edit:

My own future reference, here is the video explaining how to do this

The only other thing I did was to wrap some electrical tape around the tst wire to give it a larger diameter for the strain relief to work on the connector.

Callsign BH · Nov 11, 2021

Alrighty, I got all the cables and connectors ordered this morning for the TST-429's. Huge thanks, again, to @metalnwood for patiently explaining everything to me.

Naturally, as it's the world we live in today...the NL2FX are on backorder. As long as they are here by mid-December, I can take care of the cable mods during my time off in December.

The primary "yet to be ordered" item that remains is ordering the second NX3000D and Soundblaster X3...but all of the recent sim purchases, paired with my other spending on other hobbies, paired with 6 figure home renovations on the house we bought last year....I think I am just going to give the (pregnant and emotional) wife a bit of time before I push that purchase through

metalnwood · Nov 11, 2021

No problem

if you can change the order, then this is a replacement in stock that will work no problem

Home

Amphenol SP-2-F Loudspeaker Cable Connector 2 Pole Black Thermoplastic Shell Blue SleeveTry the Amphenol SP-2-F on your next 2-pole speaker cable and discover why Amphenol has become the choice of sound professionals all over the world.Amphenol Australia has manufactured and designed innovative...

www.parts-express.com

Darn, they dont have a good selection of cable do they! I bought a 5M 15ft) speakon cable for 1bout $14usd with tax here. it was only 16g but doesnt matter for the tst.

Callsign BH · Nov 11, 2021

metalnwood said:
No problem if you can change the order, then this is a replacement in stock that will work no problem

Home

Amphenol SP-2-F Loudspeaker Cable Connector 2 Pole Black Thermoplastic Shell Blue SleeveTry the Amphenol SP-2-F on your next 2-pole speaker cable and discover why Amphenol has become the choice of sound professionals all over the world.Amphenol Australia has manufactured and designed innovative...

www.parts-express.com

Darn, they dont have a good selection of cable do they! I bought a 5M 15ft) speakon cable for 1bout $14usd with tax here. it was only 16g but doesnt matter for the tst.

Yeah, anything with the Neutrik connectors costs a fortune here in the US....

Callsign BH · Nov 13, 2021

Ordered 2x BK-LFE’s from Parts Express yesterday because they showed up in stock for a second. One is fulfilled, one is back ordered.

The first one already arrived today:

Now I’ve just gotta determine which large BK’s I will keep/use, between the 2x LFE and 2x CT’s I have.

The SpeakON cables and stuff were also supposed to arrive today, but they don’t show as “Out for delivery” today…despite still saying “Delivery by 11/13 EOD”. I guess we will see if they arrive today or not.

Mr Latte · Nov 13, 2021

Callsign BH said:
Ordered 2x BK-LFE’s from Parts Express yesterday because they showed up in stock for a second. One is fulfilled, one is back ordered.

The first one already arrived today:

View attachment 517291

Now I’ve just gotta determine which large BK’s I will keep/use, between the 2x LFE and 2x CT’s I have.

The SpeakON cables and stuff were also supposed to arrive today, but they don’t show as “Out for delivery” today…despite still saying “Delivery by 11/13 EOD”. I guess we will see if they arrive today or not.

Well how about this, possibly keep all 4?

Going to give you a detailed response on some matters to consider!

When I share with you, examples of effects on the RB Discord as we look closely into different DSP settings with other beta testers who can also participate. I will highlight exactly to you the difference in Simhub at max soundcard volume compared to 50% and the difference in dB it has.

I can then also demonstrate, how with DSP we can achieve much more amplitude control in how we want the energy applied for specific frequencies. This cannot be done with volume, as volume increases/decreases the dB output for all frequencies. A user is often limited to how much volume they will apply based on the output of the peak Hz the unit generates. You cant crank the crap out of a unit that is strongest at 40-50Hz to try to achieve a better 60Hz or 30Hz response as the unit's peak output frequencies will always be the dominating or most felt sensation and it becomes uncomfortable or uncontrolled with excessive volume.

With DSP we can apply such boost/cuts in amplitude to key frequencies for much better balancing. We do not need the soundcard being output at 100% or to rely on excessive wattage as we can better increase the frequencies energy via amplitude control within DSP.

In using DSP we can alter the output character the unit normally produces, yet its performance is still limited to within its own potential or capabilities. You cant boost a frequency with 10x more energy via DSP, than it normally has if the unit can only output those frequencies to a certain amount. This is why (with my approach) we do not use a single make/model of unit and why we have specific models chosen for their own abilities to work much better with specifically made effects tailored to their performances.

Based on how BK themselves advertise the CT models, It may offer a bit better response with the 40-80Hz range as it is tuned more for musical functionality, so supposedly better with higher octaves, typical instruments will produce.

We already get a good response with the TST in that range and beyond, but in some effects for (specific layers), it is beneficial to have both the TST and BK unit operating together. Advanced RPM effects are a good example of this. Therefore in some aspects, a CT can be (potentially) better than the LFE to partner with the TST and to use its range a bit higher, tailing off at @80Hz.

We can use the LFE for a more limited range of tailing off at 40Hz-50Hz. Yet we purposely apply a high amplitude boost for the frequencies under 20Hz with the curve we set. This then focuses the role of the BK LFE to the best output for the lowest Hz as again according to BK it is more suited to that. If the user wants they can apply higher wattage to further extend the lowest subharmonic frequencies as in this scenario we are cutting the typical 40Hz peak output on that unit intentionally so it is not a factor.

The "seat plate", in designs considered, could accommodate up to 4x large BK and dual TST for underneath a seat on 8020 based rigs.

Best engines are possible when we separate rpm from other highly active effects and use BK/TST/EXC combos. So at least for the seat do not rule out having more than one pair of BK/TST units. Potentially CT/TST combo for engine and some other effects and LFE/TST combo for wheel/suspension based effects.

Callsign BH · Nov 13, 2021

@Mr Latte I like that idea of a LFE + CT + TST-429 on the seat. I’ll possibly sell one of the CT’s then, and go LFE+TST on the pedals since I’m a little less worried about the pedals. TBD though, maybe I’ll keep both for the pedals too…need to think on it a little more.

Edit: didn’t mention it specifically; but exciters will still be added eventually on the seat.

Mr Latte · Nov 14, 2021

I have not seen anyone

Callsign BH said:
@Mr Latte I like that idea of a LFE + CT + TST-429 on the seat. I’ll possibly sell one of the CT’s then, and go LFE+TST on the pedals since I’m a little less worried about the pedals. TBD though, maybe I’ll keep both for the pedals too…need to think on it a little more.

Edit: didn’t mention it specifically; but exciters will still be added eventually on the seat.

In Good Hands
A fair bit of research has been done on effects creation on how we best apply the BK/TST and multiple exciters. The concept has been well proven to work when used properly. We still have a lot of things to do in effects creation and ideas on how to build much better effects to test with our own team of enthusiasts.

Do not be discouraged with what you may read by tactile noobs and some who have an attitude against the approach I promote or what can only be seen as being on a personal mission to tarnish my own efforts or credibility.

In three or six months, you can compare what others come up with in effects or their own approaches/recommendations to what we seek to achieve on the RB discord.

Skills?
Some may want to copy the early groundwork and ideas of others and a popular format, yet appear to have no clue or vision of how to best implement it within effects. You can buy into the best tactile hardware, but without good effects and calibration, it can be rather disappointing or unenjoyable. To some extent regards effects, tactile is an art, and like any form of art, you have to develop your experience or understanding in that to then be able to express your own creativity.

Achieving this, is also an art, and knowing what the effects generate and determining their operations are key factors to understanding how to develop that art. We do not (fluke) the highest quality in tactile, it comes from testing, research and user feedback.

Suitable Installation & Intended Purposes
We can apply the exciters in multiple ways, to suit certain effects scenarios or felt sensations. Unlike a smaller BK, which is very limited in its best output range (20-50Hz). Using those will tie the user into using repeat frequencies for multiple effects as people get into the habbit of using the better feeling frequencies over and over and over. Then the more effects you try to use the more the whole thing becomes a jumbled mess rather than variations of effects with their own sensations.

Additionally, a BK laying horizontally then has friction within its piston and can generate potentially different felt sensations. This may or not bring its own issues when combined with other (piston based) transducer units or how they may use different crossover points

(I am not an expert on harmonic distortion or phase issues regard vibrations and different materials).

Buttkicker certainly for best performance recommends vertical installations and that is why I personally stick to that.

Better Hardware Matching
What the newbies, do not appear to realise is that if they wanted to copy the idea/format and replace exciters. Then they should place dual TST at the sides of the seat and one central unit at the spine/shoulders. That will enable the benefits of a wider frequency range to be used and better blend with large BK.

The smaller BK does not make a great job of being a unit to blend best with others, as their output while punchy is rather restricted. So how we can utilise it to bring wider variations in effects felt sensations, is just not possible. Can it fill a seat with more tactile err yes, of course but these people, appear to totally miss the point of seeking to be able to achieve the (full dynamic bass range) over the complete seat or even why that matters.

Does Experience Count?
I tested seats with multiple TST with BK units, as far back as 2006 and that can also work very well. However, from an appearance aspect, it is not acceptable to some and can look a bit weird with how those jut out from the seat.

Low bass energy because it has much more bandwidth and with such units like the BK models, this energy will fill the whole seat with ease. It can feel more natural to have lower frequencies within the buttocks/thighs/lower back. Then higher frequencies in mid to upper back. The low bass energy will feel stronger at the point of installation than it will in the shoulders.

Dual large BK should fill the seat better with richer bass, it is also better to do this than try to run a single unit at its operational limits. However, trying to achieve stereo with dual BK does not really work that well as the low bass energy flows over the whole seat and becomes omnidirectional.

Failed Solutions?
On the whole, the vast majority of people's 4Way or CM-based installations seeking to deliver positional or stereo effects in both pedals and seat do a rather poor job of it. This is also why I decided when seeking to help others to abandon stereo based installations in favour of using multiple transducers more for improved performance and roles than for directional vibrational immersion.

Effects Interfering
With more than one large BK unit, this gives you the ability to separate certain effects like speed/rpm that can feel weird if we try to have them both on the same transducer. Yet it also gives you the ability to extend certain effects layers in scenarios you want max output over both units rather than one. So additional units helps with applying more types of effects but also to have them combine when sought after in certain effects responses.

Why Exciters?
Unlike the large BK, the exciters can bring nicer positional stereo feedback.
As often pointed out on the forums here, the exciters give us the ability to transfer "specific sensations" directly to "specific body regions". They also let us apply a much wider frequency range at these locations to give us more scope in how/what effects layers we can utilize them for.

Real cars, and real vibrations, use the full dynamic bass range and will have resonating harmonics. If we seek to develop effects that can best replicate that as a scenario then we should use appropriate hardware capable of producing it. This is why the hardware selected has after all been selected.

Scenarios In Using Exciters Correctly: