AMS 2 & Modding - Your Thoughts?

[bigfoothunter]

Is it just me, or does AMS2 seem the same as AMS ? I see they made it extremely hard to add tracks & mods. It's going to be their downfall. Modding AMS is what made it so popular. I hardly ever play it. Your thoughts on it !!!!!!

 

[UMC 22]

The lack of mods is not going to be AMS 2's downfall because the reality is that the silent majority very rarely bother modding their games/sims. There are already sims out there that don't allow any modding and they're doing fine.

AMS 2 will be made or broken on it's own qualities as a racing simulation and the quality of it's own content. On that front, it's already doing pretty well and it isn't even finished yet.

 

[PaidoGato]

I'm starting to like this game.
As @Goffik said, the success or failure of this title won't be related to modding, BUT I would like to have more freedom to mod it the way I prefer to play, making new liveries or even creating new car and putting it into the game without trouble.

 

[Emery]

I see they made it extremely hard to add tracks & mods.

Uh... where to begin?

Of racing sims in current production, only rF2 has been intentionally left moddable. AMS1, because it was based on rF1, allowed a backdoor to modding, but Reiza has never supported modding their titles. AMS2 is based on PCARS2's Madness Engine and PCARS2 does not support modding, though a few official hints enabled adding some cars if you jump through the right hoops (it's not pretty).

ACC does not facilitate mods. Raceroom does not facilitate mods. iRacing does not facilitate mods. F1 series does not facilitate mods. Everything else is no longer in production.

 

[BrightCandle]

It's the same content ported into the Madness engine, but the game doesn't drive like AMS so it's quite different in that regard. They intend to add a lot more content to it so it won't just be AMS after some time. I don't think content is what will hurt its sales it's the physics and force feedback that will do that combined with an otherwise anaemic shell of a game unless it gets a lot more dev time before its released.

 

[David Wright]

Modding AMS is what made it so popular.

I don't think you could call AMS popular, except in Brazil. Steamcharts will tell you that for every person playing AMS there were 20 playing AC.

 

[UMC 22]

I don't think you could call AMS popular, except in Brazil. Steamcharts will tell you that for every person playing AMS there were 20 playing AC.

Which isn't to say that AMS wasn't popular, just that AC was more popular... according to Steam. Stats like that are worthless because you can interpret them to fit whatever argument you like. They never tell the full story.

AC had a much larger "casual" crowd due to being mainstream, whereas AMS was more niche but enjoyed popularity with the more "hardened" sim community. In other words, it was popular among those it was specifically aimed at, which is what actually matters.

 

[motoliser]

After the last update, AMS2 is shaping up to be the best overall driving experience out there. (Except for karting, with KartKraft still holding the crown)
Mods are slowly becoming available and I honestly think a lot more will see the light.
Mods will allways guarantie a longer life to the game.

 

[Avo77]

Which isn't to say that AMS wasn't popular, just that AC was more popular... according to Steam. Stats like that are worthless because you can interpret them to fit whatever argument you like. They never tell the full story.

AC had a much larger "casual" crowd due to being mainstream, whereas AMS was more niche but enjoyed popularity with the more "hardened" sim community. In other words, it was popular among those it was specifically aimed at, which is what actually matters.

umh, no... AC is not more popular.
It’s hugely more popular despite being as much as accurate simulation wise.
it’s not Gird or F1 2019 vs rFactor2.

 

[UMC 22]

umh, no... AC is not more popular.
It’s hugely more popular despite being as much as accurate simulation wise.
it’s not Gird or F1 2019 vs rFactor2.

Sorry, but I seem to be missing the point you're trying to make. No idea why you quoted me as you don't appear to be contradicting anything I said?

 

[Avo77]

Sorry, but I seem to be missing the point you're trying to make. No idea why you quoted me as you don't appear to be contradicting anything I said?

Maybe I don’t understand the meaning of ‘popular’.
IMHO both AC and AMS have been aimed exactly at the same audience, so it makes no sense to consider AMS popular when has never been able to please more than a marginal fraction of its potential customers.

 

[UMC 22]

Equally, it makes no sense to label it as not popular just because it doesn't have the same number of "Steam users" as a similar game which had a bigger budget, more promotion, and contained content that was more appealing to the "casual" crowd.

But to be honest, I really don't care how you label it. It doesn't change the fact that AMS was "popular" enough to merit a sequel, the licensing of a whole new game engine, and the licensing of new content to boot. They wouldn't be bothering, nor would they have the finances, if the original was so niche and unpopular, would they?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

What "casual" crowd even means. And how popularity can be measured otherwise if not by number of active users?

 

[dajdosta]

AMS1 is not popular compared to other racing games.

As I see it popularity correlates with graphics, popular content, gameplay (career, progress, challenges, driftings ...), ease of use. In this order more or less.
I believe sounds, ffb, physics are not contributing much to popularity.
Moddability on the other hand probably does contribute as there can be more popular content.
It also adds if content is licensed and well presented (recent liveries, full series, latest seasons, authentic driver names ...)
Good online aspect can significantly increase popularity I guess.

There are other aspects as well, visibility, advertising, state of industry at time of release, luck ?

 

[Ronaldoz87]

I guess the biggest issue for modern racing sims is, when you can't properly drive online. Like in rFactor 2, this is not easy (even in you got the content, it will still download custom skins or anything most likely) In Automobilista 2, we could easily join a server, because we all have the same conent. If you ask me, modded content is awesome, but for online there should be a filter for online / modded conent. The more simple for end users, the better it is for the sim.

As for Automobilista 2, dedicated servers are a big need!

 

[UMC 22]

Not having mods certainly makes things simpler and reduces the number of potential issues people are likely to encounter. More often than not, they blame the game rather than the mod or their own inability to install it properly.

That said, I personally think a lack of even unofficial mod support in some sims is more of a financial thing. No mods means no competition for content, which means more people are likely to buy your DLCs. I'm not saying this is inherently wrong because it makes financial sense, especially for smaller developers in what is already a niche market.

But community disappointment is inevitable because we've all gotten used to what came before. Things change, two major new sims (and one older one) offer no mod support at all, and that is probably going to be an increasing trend in the future.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Ignoring all the subsequent posts and answering the OP question...

It will depend heavily on post launch content to stay alive, if Reiza keeps pumping new content, and content that interests a fair part of the playerbase, it will keep going.

That's how sims work stay alive on this "post modding era", personally i love modding and i will miss it, but that's the way things work today...

 

[UMC 22]

It will depend heavily on post launch content to stay alive, if Reiza keeps pumping new content, and content that interests a fair part of the playerbase, it will keep going.

See, a big part of me agrees with you. But a small part of me is looking at the success of ACC, which has zero mods and very "limited" content compared to both it's predecessor and most other current sims.

Which begs the question... what really determines the success of a racing sim? Is it the sheer amount of content and DLC squeezed into it? Or is it the quality of the actual racing experience itself? Is more better, or should developers focus on quality over quantity?

After all, years ago sims did tend to focus primarily on a single class with perhaps a few "bonus" classes thrown in for fun. It worked then, so why not now? Could that be a route for others developers to start exploring? It'd certainly cost them a lot less in licensing fees...

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

See, a big part of me agrees with you. But a small part of me is looking at the success of ACC, which has zero mods and very "limited" content compared to both it's predecessor and most other current sims.

Which begs the question... what really determines the success of a racing sim? Is it the sheer amount of content and DLC squeezed into it? Or is it the quality of the actual racing experience itself? Is more better, or should developers focus on quality over quantity?

After all, years ago sims did tend to focus primarily on a single class with perhaps a few "bonus" classes thrown in for fun. It worked then, so why not now? Could that be a route for others developers to start exploring? It'd certainly cost them a lot less in licensing fees...

ACC has much smaller playerbase than AC, despite being technologically more advanced in every way.
Simracers in general seem to love GT3s and ACC is based on the most widely recognized GT3 championship of the world.
Despite that it still can't match the popularity of it's older brother right now.
This isn't "AC was more popular while it was still getting fresh content from Kunos", it's more popular now, just with modded content.
Right now Kunos is trying it's best to deliver extra content without getting into a fight with the SRO.
I don't know what the future reserves for them, but IMO the best for them would be "AC2 featuring the Blancplain GT series", plus whatever content they feel like including.

Reiza themselves started with a pure brazilian Stock Car simulation.
But gradually went the way of lots of different content.
Innitially just "take this formula... Reiza (coff,coff) for you to have some random fun and stave off boredom with just the Stock Cars".
Eventually they figured out that they could charge for this extra content and that's how AMS came to be.

AMS (like AC) was a game that had both DLC and modded content to keep it going, with the modding avenue closing there's extra pressure for the DLC to be good and interesting(to most players).

 

[UMC 22]

You make some very good points, but total playerbase stats don't tell much of a story. You could argue that AC has been around much longer, so of course it would have a larger, loyal fan following. It also runs well on older systems, and has been pretty cheap to buy for some time now. If someone wants to get into sim racing and does some research, which sim are they probably going to find far more information on than any other which could easily sway their choice? AC. Few casual racers will own every title, so of course they are more likely to go with the "popular choice", even if that isn't necessarily the best one. Etc etc. The point is that there are many reasons a game can enjoy a higher playerbase than it's counterparts, and it's not all down to the amount of content and/or it's modability.

I know we players don't like data tracking systems (I definitely don't!), but if every sim had one I would love to see what people are actually doing in their sims. Are they all playing a wide range of classes and content in every sim they buy? Or is there a limited number of classes which people tend to gravitate to which accounts for the majority of the playerbase?

I think there's also a difference between a sim which is genuinely great, and one which is good and has more mass appeal.