AMS 2 FFB Discussion

[Manuel Staedel]

I just tested all settings,
RAW, informative, imersive, more FFB, lower FFB, LowForceBoost 0 40 80...
What I found was the same FFB like in pCARS2, the same damage jolt effekts, when you driving on small bumps, the over powered force, when the car are oversteering, the les details about the rear axle.
It's for me, the biggest disappointment in the year.
You don't beleive me?
Please take a seat in the StockCar or the Falcon V8, starting in Spielberg with clear wather in both games.
The detailed, RAW, real and comprehensible FFB, you are only get in AMS1. The same like rFactor2, but much more heavyer.
In rF² you feel the gene of rF². It's not like AMS but near of it.

AMS2-Beta is for me pCARS2 and i am realy sad, because my hope was realy big. So many people say "Stop! It's pCARS2! You should not beleve that it can be better!" But i say, "No, that are not SMS, they are Reiza Studios,, they have good guys, the have got Nils and he knows what he do."

What shuld i say?
I am realy sad and hopeless because that pCARS2-feeling will be not gone after the final release. If that be possible, than only with deleting it and copy paste from AMS1.
But what i know now, when you want to say, "Shut up and take my money!" Think before it. It's funny but expensive some times.

Best wiches from Germany, Manuel

I just testet the Ultima, OldStock, AJR... All the same. No Reiza-Feeling.
Kart and Caterham too. Are the 310HP Caterham damage? More than 170km/h not possible an Spielberg.

Btw.:
I am using the SimuCUBE without any damping or filterring.
But, AMS1 feels grate, too with the G27.

 

[blueferrari]

DD wheel here at 25% gain. Didn't need to touch any slider on the new default FFB and it feels great! This new update has pretty much nailed it for me! Way to go Reiza

What was the default? I can't remember.

 

[UMC 22]

hehe, yes indeed, but some people's reports of completely numb, like on ice are so far removed from what you would expect given what you experience yourself its hard to imagine that (even with different wheels) they could be experiencing the same feelings but just not liking it as much.

Its more like they are getting completely different response at the wheel and if I sat at their desk with their wheels with the same settings I have on my setup assuming they have the same wheel as I do, I might also be thinking "WTF.. this can't be right", as if there is more to it than personal preferences.. ie, a difference. You know, the old reboot, reinstall, delete this, delete that, throw salt over left shoulder and suddenly its all performing different without changing a single thing in the slider.

I have had the odd occasion where I thought the FFB felt "different", only to reboot and find its now back to how it seemed to be.. just a brief anomaly, but an anomaly no less and perhaps whatever causes this for me from time to time (very rare but it has happened), is more permanent for others.. Just throwing it out there.. not easily quantifiable of course... no system metrics available... just am starting to think something else might be at play as opposed to personal preference and general setup etc.

You could be right of course. EA game, bugs are present here and there. It just seems strange to me that it would affect some people permanently, others intermittently, and others not at all. It also doesn't explain why custom profiles "fix" the problem without suffering this issue themselves. The way they work means that we're not changing the actual FFB information generated by the sim itself, we're just tweaking the way that information is being interpreted and sent to the wheel.

But it also depends on whether or not people are exaggerating their description of the problem, as they often do when posting in frustration, and/or what they mean by the terms they're using. For example, when I say the default FFB is "numb", I don't mean there is nothing there whatsoever. I get cornering forces and undulations, the odd bump, and if I set my brake balance forwards, slam on the brakes and lock the wheels, my wheel goes light and vibrates. But things like road feel, proper tyre scrub, braking scrub, curbs, etc are either a barely noticeably buzz in the background, or totally non-existent, and trying to bring one of those to the fore results in other unwanted forces also being increased because of the limited sliders on offer.

It just makes me feel like Reiza's range of testing equipment is very limited, and/or that they have a set method in mind and refuse to be swayed by anything coming from the actual community. I mean, even soft-locks still doesn't work for many despite an amateur like me finding a working fix for the problem and posting it weeks ago! Their own attempt to fix it in the last patch failed miserably. I'm not sure what that says about whoever is responsible for the official FFB development.

And with the latest patch we apparently have v1.0-ready FFB, so no real changes from here on out. Thank goodness for custom profiles and the knowledgeable people making use of them.

 

[UMC 22]

Another interesting tid-bit that I forgot to mention above. Yesterday I was testing a custom profile, setting the variables to 0 and raising them one by one to get a feel for what they did. When everything was on zero, I got more scrub coming through on my wheel than the default profile. This can only have been the Reiza scrub finally coming through due to the numerous non-variable changes made in the custom profile. To me, this further suggests that the FFB issues are a flaw in Reiza's approach rather than a bug with the game.

 

[dajdosta]

What variables?

 

[UMC 22]

What variables?

Yesterday I was testing a custom profile...

Custom profile with a bunch of variables not available in the game itself.

 

[Deleted member 875593]

...
(Yes, I am that OLD).

I too love playing rf2 (especially the 60s open wheelers) and don't consider myself someone who expects to "handle a 1200hp turboloaded car as if you´re a berzerker on rage with a warhammer." and equally believes AMS2 is a great sim with lots of potential and wish more people could enjoy it at the level I am. Not sure why so many people seem to end up with such a poor FFB experience given there are only 3 sliders as variables. It does seem like something is amiss under the bonnet somewhere.

I am that old, too.
Means, like you, i drive sim racing and real cars for a long time. And like you, i dont consider myself as someone who expects to "handle a 1200hp turboloaded car as if you´re a berzerker on rage with a warhammer."
But in AMS 2 , the cars can be handled like that. Just floor the pedal with 2 wheels on the green at 150 kmh, and you´re good to go.
That simply feels not realistic to me. And i got the feel that this is not just a FFB problem, but also a tire model problem if not something deeper.
Same cars, same tracks in RF2, you gotta be way more careful not to spin and stay in control.
Sure, its fun to drive like there´s no tomorrow. But is that realism, i ask myself.

 

[chemic]

My out of the box (not tuned) AMS2 FFB feels actually really good on my CSW 2.5 (what's also maxed out everything and Drift -2)

 

[BazzaLB]

I am that old, too.
Means, like you, i drive sim racing and real cars for a long time. And like you, i dont consider myself as someone who expects to "handle a 1200hp turboloaded car as if you´re a berzerker on rage with a warhammer."
But in AMS 2 , the cars can be handled like that. Just floor the pedal with 2 wheels on the green at 150 kmh, and you´re good to go.
That simply feels not realistic to me. And i got the feel that this is not just a FFB problem, but also a tire model problem if not something deeper.
Same cars, same tracks in RF2, you gotta be way more careful not to spin and stay in control.
Sure, its fun to drive like there´s no tomorrow. But is that realism, i ask myself.

Interesting. Which Car and Track are we talking about specifically here because I have had opposite (and what I thought was equally unrealistic) wheels touch grass .. insta-spin. Maybe this changed in latest patches as I do tend to avoid the grass as a result so might not have noticed. I'd like to check out this phenomenon on this high power car you can just floor with wheel in the grass. Please try to be specific so I can make sure I am trying the exact combo you are complaining about, because you are right, I don't expect to be able to "floor it" when half in and half out of the grass as I equally don't expect insta-spin when touching the grass.

BTW, have you raced the Stock Car V8 around interlagos.. Can you really just floor this thing around the tight bends? You must be doing something really special if so because I have to be very careful in this car at this circuit or else run the risk of spinning. I certainly can't just "floor it" everywhere. Would be interested to know your thoughts on that combo.

 

[UMC 22]

Maybe this changed in latest patches...

Nope, it hasn't. Hitting the grass still results in insta-spin 99% of the time. If he's managed to floor the throttle on grass without losing traction then it's a bug limited to a specific track or combo. More likely he's just grossly exaggerating, thinking it somehow makes his point more credible. Which it doesn't.

 

[Deleted member 875593]

Nope, it hasn't. Hitting the grass still results in insta-spin 99% of the time. If he's managed to floor the throttle on grass without losing traction then it's a bug limited to a specific track or combo. More likely he's just grossly exaggerating, thinking it somehow makes his point more credible. Which it doesn't.

You are so damned right, how could i just dare to think something else than you and even tell it on the internetz. Sorry, really, it wont happen again. Call me a liar and delete my posts.
Cause there is just one right opinion about AMS 2, and that´s yours. You tell me the FFB is good, so it is good. My excuse for thinking my own thoughts.
And the driving is perfect, of course. Just as you say. There is no problem whatsoever.

 

[UMC 22]

You are so damned right, how could i just dare to think something else than you and even tell it on the internetz. Sorry, really, it wont happen again. Call me a liar and delete my posts.
Cause there is just one right opinion about AMS 2, and that´s yours. You tell me the FFB is good, so it is good. My excuse for thinking my own thoughts.
And the driving is perfect, of course. Just as you say. There is no problem whatsoever.

Well... that's quite a reaction. Headcase.

 

[Cote Dazur]

With this latest update, is the FFB now at a stable state? Is this, more or less, how AMS2 will feel from now on?

 

[UMC 22]

With this latest update, is the FFB now at a stable state? Is this, more or less, how AMS2 will feel from now on?

Well, according to Reiza that stage was supposed to have been reached by the patch before this one. I guess the community feedback made them rethink though, hence the changes this time around.

The default FFB does feel much better than it did pre-patch so it's definitely an improvement. I think Reiza also said that this is it now, the only changes will be minor ones if required by the physics updates they bring to the cars in the final stages before release. There is also a very good custom profile over on the Reiza forums which a lot of people are liking at the moment. I use it myself.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Well, according to Reiza that stage was supposed to have been reached by the patch before this one. I guess the community feedback made them rethink though, hence the changes this time around.

The default FFB does feel much better than it did pre-patch so it's definitely an improvement. I think Reiza also said that this is it now, the only changes will be minor ones if required by the physics updates they bring to the cars in the final stages before release. There is also a very good custom profile over on the Reiza forums which a lot of people are liking at the moment. I use it myself.

Thank you for this reply. I have not tried any custom file yet, mostly because I was waiting on a stable FFB state, which we seem to have reached now. I am a firm believer in well made FFB custom files for the AMS engine, as Christiaan’s Pure FFB files changed PCars2 for me from not liking it to possible to enjoy with some combo. Which for me is a great achievement for PCars2.

I will be trying custom files now to see if I can improve my AMS2 experience, as at this point, the default is not bad but not that great for me.
I like AMS2, I will drive it, mostly for the different content and beautiful VR, even on the default FFB, but I was expecting a little more.

Maybe it is just that I like and prefer something else, but I rather would have a custom file that makes AMS2 feel great to me.

 

[UMC 22]

I will be trying custom files now to see if I can improve my AMS2 experience, as at this point, the default is not bad but not that great for me.
I like AMS2, I will drive it, mostly for the different content and beautiful VR, even on the default FFB, but I was expecting a little more.

Maybe it is just that I like and prefer something else, but I rather would have a custom file that makes AMS2 feel great to me.

That pretty much matches my own feelings about the default FFB since the patch. I think it's decent and will likely satisfy most people now, once they have dialled in their sliders properly. But some people will be left wanting a little bit more feedback, and that's where the custom files come in.

 

[Renato Simioni]

Just as a clarification, we wrapped development of the FFB code for v1.0 @ v0.9.3 - the fact the mechanics of the system were set then however doesn’t mean we were not still fine tuning the parameters in the default script and within each car. The differences in v0.9.5 are limited to this fine tuning process, which is not to say they are small. We‘ll still be going through that process in the coming weeks until v1 release. We will also review the code for bugs when needed, one of them being the initialization issue causing the wheel to pull right in some circunstances.

 

[dwightyone]

First of all I wasn't worried, then I was worried, but am now not worried whatsoever. Good job Reiza, but please give us something like the Nordschelife - a couple of South American equivalents will do!

 

[chemic]

Anyone got a good custom profile for Fanatec CSW 2.5 after last patch/fix?

 

[TurcoMaldade_]

looking for a good profile for Fanatec V1.

 

[UMC 22]

Custom FFB Thread