Why blame the driver for having the best car? for being the best in that car, Bottas has the same car. it's up to the rest of the field to keep up. its not like red bull, Ferrari don't have the money or development.
Alright when was that again.....?
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
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I agree with you, wholeheartedly!
Cote Dazur
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yes.
And perhaps that's why he could be a GOAT contender. Fastest lap with dead tyres seems like pretty good driving to me.
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of how he's politicised F1, nor am I a fan of his politics, but as a driver he does stand out from the crowd.
Now while you can argue that he has had the fastest machinery, the truth is that the best drivers almost always tend to end up in the best cars. Also consider that with one exception he has always outperformed his teammates, often by a significant margin.
So does he deserve the Knighthood? Sure IMO. His services to the sport, and his achievements within the sport warrant that.
But is he the GOAT, Hmmm, Perhaps not. I think the GOAT is George Russell, but we just don't know it yet.
LOL, not even at top 10. In fact, how is this possible? There is no F1 since 2014.
Jim Clark, Nigel Mansell, James Hunt, John Surtees, Stirling Moss, Mike Hawthorn, Graham Hill...
Ha, that just makes him a great entertainer as well as a great driver
Seriously though, for me he's not the GOAT either. I'm not quite sure who I would pick, but it wouldn't be any of the highly successful drivers who have made a habit of doing seriously unsporting things on track (not a major fault in Hamilton's case, but in some of his predecessors). I do agree it's not about numbers; if it were, there'd be no need to even ask the question
It's entirely disputable, hence the reason for this thread to exist.
I'm not much of a Hamilton fan, but I do have great respect for what he's managed to achieve in F1. He is the best driver in the sport right now, if you go by his stats. But I do not think it makes him the GOAT. Stats are one thing, reality is another.
GOATs are people who not only excel at their profession, but do so despite hardship and by beating the odds. Winning six championships in a car which is acknowledged as the best by some margin, a car in which a kid named Russell can display similar dominance at very short notice, does not make a GOAT.
Driving a car with sod all modern tech that could kill you at any moment, a car that is known for being crap or dangerous and still managing to podium, dragging yourself and your team to results that they don't deserve on driver skill alone... those are the kinds of things that make a true GOAT. And none of those things apply to Lewis. Therefore, the true GOAT is still someone from yesteryear.
Durge Driven
DD
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What fans or commentators think is irrelevant
Ricky Carmichael was given the GOAT moniker by his competitors, unanimously, go ask anyone of them including Stewart and Dungey
When that happens to a car driver get back to me
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It allwas puzzles me how F1 is supposed to be the one and only series that brings out GOATs. What about people like Scott Dixon? A guy who won 6 titles, finsihed two times 2nd and five times 3rd in the championship standing in Indycar and Indyracing league, where fields and competition are alot closer due to the specs being much more limited. Have I mentioned his 3 Indy 500 wins and 4 Daytona 24 hour wins and a 3rd place at Le mans? This guy is a freaking beast, no matter if it's on Ovals, Roadcourses, OW-racing or Sportscar Racing while crushing the competition in junior categories as well as top tier racing.
How about people like Jacky Steward, Marion Andretti or Graham Hill? People who won with everything that had four wheels all around the world, even on dirt? Calling people like Hamilton GOAT is such a far stretch.
How about people like Jacky Steward, Marion Andretti or Graham Hill? People who won with everything that had four wheels all around the world, even on dirt? Calling people like Hamilton GOAT is such a far stretch.
This is a predictably controversial question. Hamilton's driving abilities are unquestionably superior to most of the current F1 drivers. In F1 you can really only be compared to your direct team mate (assuming all things are equal). Is he better than any team mate he's been up against? Yes, I think so, barring maybe Alonso. Is he really better than all of his contemporaries, it's hard to say. Vettel, Verstappen, Raikkonen, Massa, Leclerc, Alonso or even Button... I'm fairly sure that any of them would have repeated the same success in the Merc, with the same level of support. I'm also reasonably certain that if Lewis wasn't the outright No.1 within Merc, then Valtteri wouldn't be made look like such a Mug... he's also a great driver, but just doesn't shine for whatever reason/s. The other drivers I mentioned haven't had the same opportunity though. Lewis has, but that's not the whole story either, the most important thing is that Lewis has consistently delivered time and time again... so overall historical GOAT or not, he is unquestionably the best F1 driver since 2014 in terms of consistently performing at the highest level.
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Nope, stats are meaningless when he has the most races to win in a year compared to most of the other legends. He's had the longest manufacturer dominance in the modern era. Still a fantastic talent and legend, but GOAT? No way.
Whats laughable are those who think he magically made Mercedes into winners, the thought that he could do what the combined talents of Todt, Brawn and Schumacher achieved...on his lonesome and in a fraction of the time. Nothing to do with the radical rule change that dropped in 2014 and INSTANTLY made Mercedes unbeatable?!! 5 1-2 WDC finishes in 7 years indicates car dominance. I give him credit for 2017 and 2018. He was jammy in '08 when Ferrari's pit systems shafted Massa big time several times and the others was clear car dominance.
Put it this way, if he'd stayed loyal to McLaren how many titles would he have? 1, doesn't matter how good you are if the car doesn't deliver. And loads of ok drivers have won titles in superior cars......F1 is not a way to judge how good the "driver" is or not.
I go for Surtees, 2 and 4 wheels nuff said.
Whats laughable are those who think he magically made Mercedes into winners, the thought that he could do what the combined talents of Todt, Brawn and Schumacher achieved...on his lonesome and in a fraction of the time. Nothing to do with the radical rule change that dropped in 2014 and INSTANTLY made Mercedes unbeatable?!! 5 1-2 WDC finishes in 7 years indicates car dominance. I give him credit for 2017 and 2018. He was jammy in '08 when Ferrari's pit systems shafted Massa big time several times and the others was clear car dominance.
Put it this way, if he'd stayed loyal to McLaren how many titles would he have? 1, doesn't matter how good you are if the car doesn't deliver. And loads of ok drivers have won titles in superior cars......F1 is not a way to judge how good the "driver" is or not.
I go for Surtees, 2 and 4 wheels nuff said.
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undoubtedly the most successful f1 driver but not the goat. Senna for me.
http://www.ayrton-senna.net/lap-of-the-gods-donington-93/
http://www.ayrton-senna.net/lap-of-the-gods-donington-93/
At his first title, in 2008, the winning team was Ferrari, not McLaren... so you can say that Lewis (at his debut) win without the best car, against two champions (Kimi and Alonso) and two "to be" champions (Vettel and Nico). So, he proved that, AT LEAST, his competence is his own.
On F1, mediocre cars can win races, but NEVER a championship. Mediocre drivers can win championships (and it's something that use to happen in F1). So we will never know how good a F1 driver is until he gets used to win on other top-tier categories. Guys like Lewis, Vettel and Senna (to quote three F1 top aces), are F1 guys... maybe they are the real deal, but we will never know.
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He is one of the greatest, but not the greatest. Especially after Rosberg left F1 he had no opponents to challenge him, and this are 4 years racing against no one and winning. I personally like him, but the absence of rivals is a problem to recognize his brilliant career as the GOAT.
