2013 Formula One Malaysian Grand Prix

[Hampus Andersson]

wow what a race, started great then it all just entered the Twilight Zone

Great job by Mercedes not putting enough fuel in the car, i would assume the reason they let Rosberg stay behind was to pay back the mistake to Hamilton.
Not sure how some can lose respect for Hamilton, he did nothing wrong.
It wasn´t like he told Brawn he would get raped if Rosberg overtook him.

And let´s face it, the only reason Rosberg was even close was because of fuel management.
And they actually did battle for quite some laps despite that. Rosberg overtook in DRS 1 and Hamilton overtook him back in DRS 2.

Much respect to Nico though for being a team player and understanding the situation.

But Vettel? not only does he respect very few on track, now he doesn´t even respect his own team that has given him bonkers cars to drive for nearly 5 years.
Obviously if Webber starts saving tires and fuel the same goes for you numpty...

Had Webber not yelded it would have ended really bad and Webber probably would have taken the blame.

On the flipside though it seemed Vettel had no idea and got a bit of a shocker when he got out of the car so let´s wait and see what happens there.

He did say that Webber should have won this race so that was nice to hear.
But still, it won´t change the result as Webber was the best man of the two for the whole race.

 

[David Woodmass]

I wonder which sucker they will find to take over Webber's Red Bull seat when he leaves. He will have to be a gentle "yes man". I don't see any current driver on the grid who would accept the conditions of driving as a no.2 driver at Red Bull as long as Vettel remains there. I don't see any driver wanting to be Vettel's team-mate in any team. Vettel should be in his own team and drive by himself. I don't see any current driver wanting to drive alongside him after his team history.

Massa lol

 

[Markus Neumann]

Great job by Mercedes not putting enough fuel in the car, i would assume the reason they let Rosberg stay behind was to pay back the mistake to Hamilton.
Not sure how some can lose respect for Hamilton, he did nothing wrong.
It wasn´t like he told Brawn he would get raped if Rosberg overtook him.

And let´s face it, the only reason Rosberg was even close was because of fuel management.

I kinda doubt that Mercedes put different amounts of fuel into the two cars. And if they did, that would not necessarily be a disadvantage for Hamilton since his would be lighter for most of the race.
Also, during the time when the Mercedes were catching up to the Red Bulls, Rosberg usually had the faster lap times of the two.
Personally, I think Hamilton ran out of fuel because he was pushing to overtake Vettel/keep him behind/overtake Webber. In the end, that didn't work out, but it could have, and if it had, it also would have benefited Rosberg for getting a shot at them as well while they are being held up. In that regard (and also by pitting earlier), Hamilton took some risk from which Rosberg (could have) benefited, so perhaps that's why Mercedes thought it would be fair to keep them in their order. But okay, but perhaps that's what you meant?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

I kinda doubt that Mercedes put different amounts of fuel into the two cars. And if they did, that would not necessarily be a disadvantage for Hamilton since his would be lighter for most of the race.

Clearly it would be a disadvantage if they did that, this is what we just saw.

Also, during the time when the Mercedes were catching up to the Red Bulls, Rosberg usually had the faster lap times of the two.

At the end of every stint yes but it was only at the end where he actually got close and Hamilton said he was in fuel saving mode for a long time.

The thing is they put in less fuel then they actually need because they assume they can fuel save at some point during the race.
That point was at the end this time.

Personally, I think Hamilton ran out of fuel because he was pushing to overtake Vettel/keep him behind/overtake Webber. In the end, that didn't work out, but it could have, and if it had, it also would have benefited Rosberg for getting a shot at them as well while they are being held up. In that regard (and also by pitting earlier), Hamilton took some risk from which Rosberg (could have) benefited, so perhaps that's why Mercedes thought it would be fair to keep them in their order. But okay, but perhaps that's what you meant?

Read above regarding fuel.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Great job by Mercedes not putting enough fuel in the car, i would assume the reason they let Rosberg stay behind was to pay back the mistake to Hamilton.

It happens quiet often at Mercedes. I think Rosberg also had to save fuel a couple of times last year. Could be wrong though.

On the flipside though it seemed Vettel had no idea and got a bit of a shocker when he got out of the car so let´s wait and see what happens there.

I find it hard to belive, that a 3 times WDC could deal with radio messeges at the start that asked him to turn like a dozen switches in the correct position while warimg up his tieres/brakes and making sure not to hit sombody while doing that, but he was unable to understand that one sentence or coded message.

I kinda doubt that Mercedes put different amounts of fuel into the two cars.

I don't find that hard to belive. Diffrent driving styles use slightly diffrent amounts of fuel per lap which could add up in a race to 1-2kg or more I guess. However I don't know the situation with Lewis vs. Nico in that respect.
But I also don't think that that was the case, because Lewis had to save fuel a lot so I presume you're right.

 

[Markus Neumann]

The thing is they put in less fuel then they actually need because they assume they can fuel save at some point during the race.
That point was at the end this time.

Well, then you can't really call the decision to put in less fuel a mistake, or only with the benefit of hindsight. You sacrifice overall race pace/performance at the end for a lighter car at the start, which can put you into a better position.
But okay, I didn't see the interview with Hamilton, so I don't have as much information as you.

On a completely different note, regarding some of the comments from some people about Alonso: Damaging the front wing in the first place was obviously his own fault, but I don't think you can blame him for staying out. He can only decide whether he is still capable of keeping the damaged car on track. Assessing whether the frontwing is capable of surviving is the job of Ferrari's engineers, Alonso simply can't do that from the cockpit.
Also really demonstrates the power of downforce again: The wing survives through all the corners and elevation changes, but at the end of the straight, where the aero load is the greatest, it just shears off

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Well, then you can't really call the decision to put in less fuel a mistake, or only with the benefit of hindsight.

I agree, i actually made an assumption they simply filled the car with too little.
If that is the real story remains to be seen.
It looked like they mis-calculated it quite bad since he was fuel saving for quite some time.


regarding Alonso, i feel he should have listened to his team, they know more then he does about the state of the wing since he can´t even see it.

But he gambled and it did not pay of this time.

 

[Markus Neumann]

I don't find that hard to belive. Diffrent driving styles use slightly diffrent amounts of fuel per lap which could add up in a race to 1-2kg or more I guess. However I don't know the situation with Lewis vs. Nico in that respect.
But I also don't think that that was the case, because Lewis had to save fuel a lot so I presume you're right.

Yeah, I thought about it more: it definitely can happen. I don't think it's that much about driving style, but track position can certainly matter: Rosberg was running in P1 for much of the Chinese GP 2011 but then had to back off because Mercedes didn't put enough fuel into the car because they didn't expect him to be in front (apparently it would have been enough if he had been running in the middle of the pack).

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Here´s a quote from Lewis,

Q: Lewis, your thoughts? Obviously this circuit is a fairly extreme one but do you see the picture continuing?
LH: I probably do, yeah. These tyres make it very hard, very difficult to make them last and particularly for me today, I wasn’t really able to make my tyres last as much as I wanted. I was fuel saving from an early point in the race which lost me a lot of time but generally these tyres make... it’s not fun, I didn’t enjoy the race. It’s not the same as back in the day when you had stints where you are pushing to the maximum the whole time, you had tyres that would last. Now you’re just... it’s like you have a hundred dollars and you have to spend it wisely over a period of time. It makes racing a lot different. It’s more strategic rather than pure speed racing.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/3/14414.html

 

[Markus Neumann]

Here´s a quote from Lewis,

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/3/14414.html

Yeah, then you're probably right.

The rest of the comment is fairly interesting as well. Seems like Pirelli at least partially failed with their attempt to make the tyre degradation less dependent on driving style and car characteristics but increase general degradation in return (they only fully succeeded at the latter). Personally, I like it this way because I honestly don't care if a driver is lapping at 1:40 or flat out at 1:35, but the strategic part makes the race more interesting. But I can understand why it would be less fun for the drivers and especially frustrating for someone like LH because it obviously negates his biggest strength.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Yea it definitely hurts drivers who are more aggressive, like Hamilton or Webber compared to the smooth-style of Rosberg, Vettel, Button etc.
In Qualifying it´s usually ok since the tires last one lap at their peak performance.

Same with Curbs. Hamilton was probably the only guy that had mastered curb-jumping (like in Monza 2008) then after that we had the worst curbs ever that breaks the suspension on cars.

The best for Hamilton would be refuelling - great tires - and good curbs.
All of that is gone now. But i guess it´ll only make certain drivers get more complete as they are forced to learn different aspects that comes more naturally to others.

(and vice versa should be said)

 

[Sam McAleer]

Didnt see ithe race but i heard about it...

 

[Markus Neumann]

Same with Curbs. Hamilton was probably the only guy that had mastered curb-jumping (like in Monza 2008) then after that we had the worst curbs ever that breaks the suspension on cars.

Do you really think curb-jumping matters that much? I guess it can helpful in Monza, Montreal, Singapore and the second last corner of the Nürburgring, but other than that I don't see many uses for it. And the bit you gain from the more direct line is at least partially lost by the car being unsettled and the driver having to make more steering movements in order to catch it. Plus, to be honest, Hamilton kind of cut the corners Monza sometimes

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Do you really think curb-jumping matters that much? I guess it can helpful in Monza, Montreal, Singapore and the second last corner of the Nürburgring, but other than that I don't see many uses for it. And the bit you gain from the more direct line is at least partially lost by the car being unsettled and the driver having to make more steering movements in order to catch it. Plus, to be honest, Hamilton kind of cut the corners Monza sometimes

Yes curb riding is very benefitial but only if you can make it work.
Before they used to set up their cars for just that but with the new sleeping policemen you can´t because it would destroy your suspension.

He never cut any corners. He simply jumped the curbs like nobody else. And that was in pissing rain which made it even more spectacular.
that whole race gave him the nickname il Phenomeno by the italians as well.

If you look at Hockenheim a couple of years back people left the racing track completely and was on top of the wide low curbs.
Bit like DTM.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

22 minutes of team radio, sweet.

 

[ENDR]

regarding Alonso, i feel he should have listened to his team, they know more then he does about the state of the wing since he can´t even see it.

But he gambled and it did not pay of this time.

How are you that sure, that he didn't?

we knew the front wing was damaged but the car still seemed to be competitive and we decided to run the risk of staying out. We definitely could have played safe and called him in, but that way we would have ended up behind everyone on rain tyres and would have lost even more ground with the next stop to fit dry tyres. With hindsight, we can say the risk wasn’t worthwhile

 

[Hampus Andersson]

How are you that sure, that he didn't?

You mean seeing the wing? Or that he should have listened to his team?
Probably the last one.

That is interesting, question is if he means we as in the guys in the pits or we as a team meaning if Alonso said something it´s a decision we as a team made.

Because they actually went out with a new wing for him but then it fell off and he crashed.

Edit: found a better quote, seems to be a full team decision.

“Despite the fact the car was damaged, it didn't seem to be too bad and, together with the team, we decided to keep going, because if we'd stopped immediately and then again on lap 3 or 4 to fit dry tyres, we would have dropped too far back and definitely lost the chance to finish up the front. It's easy to criticise this decision, but at the time it seemed like the right one.

 

[ENDR]

You mean seeing the wing?

Can he actually see any part of it? Sure, I meant him not listening to the team.
I remember someone (Domenicali?) saying after the race, that they were talking with Alonso during the first lap and decided to stay out until it gets dry enough for slicks. It must have felt risky back then, but NOW we know it was a bad decision.

Btw, grammar-nazi alert for all concerned: "must HAVE", not "must OF" (which makes no sense whatsoever)...

 

[Ivan Mills]

And let´s face it, the only reason Rosberg was even close was because of fuel management.

....oh, so otherwise it wouldve been a blow out,huh(by Hamilton)?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Can he actually see any part of it? Sure, I meant him not listening to the team.
I remember someone (Domenicali?) saying after the race, that they were talking with Alonso during the first lap and decided to stay out until it gets dry enough for slicks. It must have felt risky back then, but NOW we know it was a bad decision.

Btw, grammar-nazi alert for all concerned: "must HAVE", not "must OF" (which makes no sense whatsoever)...

No he probably could not see anything, maybe that played into his case that he wanted to stay out, he even overtook Webber i think so he probably thought it wasn´t as bad.

Yea it was a gamble that did not pay off, if it had payed off who knows where Alonso would have finished. I think the Ferrari could have easily beaten the Merc and possibly pushed the Red Bull´s quite good.

....oh, so otherwise it wouldve been a blow out,huh(by Hamilton)?

No i think Rosberg would have been just outside the DRS zone.

If Hamilton did not have a brain fade there in the pits he probably would have challenged for the lead as well.
Or be out of the DRS zone for Vettel.

With that said, Rosberg has driven beautifully so far. Both in Quali and Races.
He´s very very strong.