EA Sports WRC Coming 3 November, Pre-orders Open Now

I've read many times that UE is unsuitable for racing sims, the most prominent example until now being ACC, but I've never understood why specifically. Could someone here provide an in-depth explanation on why?

hodge like said:

It states on Steam page that there will be triple monitor support.

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That was a major thing that I was missing in DR2.0. After being used to playing AC and ACC on triples, going back to a single monitor for DR2.0 was not great

DS6160 said:

I've read many times that UE is unsuitable for racing sims, the most prominent example until now being ACC, but I've never understood why specifically. Could someone here provide an in-depth explanation on why?

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You are launching a passionate debate there... there is one example of an UE5 simracing game, Rennsport, and only a few examples of UE4 sim and arcade racing games : ACC, Nascar Ignition, Ride series, Dakar 18 and Rally, Gravel and maybe a few others.

You can read the usual critic about physics in UE : in fact, physics engine and graphics engine are disconnected like in ACC and Nascar Ignition. There's nothing there.

The second usual critic is a question of taste : UE4 at a distance shows some bluriness, like your eyes IRL. I personnally feel more immersed with this feature than, for example, in AMS2 with its sharp trees at a very long distance, which give a cartoony look to the game (I'm not an AMS2 hater at all, on the contrary).

Third usual critic is the bad performance, especially in VR. I've personnally haven't experienced this in ACC, even on an old machine (i7 2600k with a GTX1070) in VR, racing with AIs (and I am really sensitive to stuttering and performance drops in VR). I experienced stuttering with Dakar 18 on a mobile GTX1060 but solved it with a fix by editing a text file, so it was a developper mistake. On the same mobile 1060, I could run ACC without any performance drop (on flat screen). Gravel has been a smooth experience on any config.

As I had positive experiences with UE4 games, even in VR with an old machine, it just shows how the game performances are not consistant between various configurations. It happens with games of other genres. Is it UE4? Is it on the developpers? Is it a too short testing phase in companies? I assume a bit of everything. But it is a reality. Whatever the game is, I haven't read about performance issues in Nascar Ignition ; I haven't played this game and can't give any feedback. The thing that is often forgotten is what PC configs are currently in use among simracers. Most of players, and probably simracers, aren't using last gen CPUs and GPUs. UE is always looking towards the future, not the past, which can explain some incompatibility between simracing, which has always been CPU and GPU demanding, and this engine. Making a visually groundbraking modern game but excluding immediately half of the simracing community is a risky move. Taking that into consideration, we probably won't see new gen simracing games before 5 years, the time for developpers to master the engine and for most users to change their config. The only way to have simracing games being on the "modern" wagon would be to increase the users base or to lower development costs, the second solution being more realistic ; let's hope UE5 will help, otherwise we will always have previous gen sims.

UE5 new technologies should help the performance but we have to wait to see the reality of that. About Rennsport under UE5, I wouldn't draw any conclusion as the engine is obviously not properly used, but I understand why it is used and it's a clever choice for the future of the game (the team is learning to work with the engine and will benefit from its future updates). It is currently graphically inferior to UE4 games, it is obviously not a reference to use.

That's why if this rally game uses UE5, which would.make sense to start a new games series, it will be interested to see the result, although I doubt the team has been able to master the engine in such a short time, especially when we consider some current UE4 games are still out with performance issues, although the developpers have some experience on it now. Most probably the game is under UE4 and the team is working on a switch to UE5 for the next year game, or the next one.

On the positive side of UE games, it is important to note that the engine is ready for consoles. I assume in terms of development, it largely lowers the costs of conversion (so in development in general) and we, as users, (should) benefit from this.

Wolf24h said:

Oh no, 1% of the game's target is very upset

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Jealous? Sick in VR? You don't have the money to buy a good PC and a good headset? If we don't want to buy because there isn't VR in a game, why does that bother Mr. Marquis?

tlsmikey said:

So does this mean it also doesn't have triple screen support since they are using the unreal engine? I know Kunos solved this issue, but it took enormous amounts of work.

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Look, Wolf24 said that since there was (would be) only 1 percent of players who had a VR headset we shouldn't get too excited! So for triple screens it's the same thing, don't complain!!!
Sorry for this dubious humor, I reassure you, I am on your side, of course a rally game must be playable in tripple, with hairpin turns and others, it is extremely useful to use tripples, and then it's definitely much more immersive and more beautiful. I hope for your sake that this game is, especially if it is fun and realistic to drive.

roadyroad said:

The second usual critic is a question of taste : UE4 at a distance shows some bluriness, like your eyes IRL. I personnally feel more immersed with this feature than, for example, in AMS2 with its sharp trees at a very long distance, which give a cartoony look to the game (I'm not an AMS2 hater at all, on the contrary).

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This is incorrect. I see as sharp in the far distance as close distance in real life. What AMS2 shows in VR is accurate to me(at native pimax crystal resolution+msaa it's accurate compared to real life). With ACC you simply need way more GPU power than currently is available to get it properly sharp in the distance in VR. It is technically possible with ACC(100% render resolution+180% pixel density+DLAA for example) but then you need a 6090 to run it because it gives me 35-55fps or something on my Pimax Crystal+4090. But THEN it IS as sharp as AMS2. So it's a performance limitation and nothing else.

You should have your eyes checked because of what you suggested here. Because the blur in the distance occurs in real life if you have issues with your eye sight. So your comparison applies to you(with your eye) but not to the average VR racer with "correct eye sight".

That is issue number 1 of ACC(which is associated with Unreal Engine/race sim issues because it's the most known example). Other big issues are: TAA ghosting artifacts while moving your head/driving in corners, shadow pop in very close to the car even with Epic shadows/distance, non adjustable and non movable (with moving your head) mirrors in VR.

Those 4 things are the main UE/ACC visual issues currently(which affect VR WAY more than pancake). To me the physics of ACC feel still a bit static/artificial compared to other sims but I'm not sure if that's engine related or a design choice. This since it's very subjective.

gamma123152 said:

I cannot pre-order this because VR will be added later.

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Same here !

Wolf24h said:

Oh no, 1% of the game's target is very upset

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I add dear Marquis, almost two percent of players on Steam have a VR headset, not one percent, obviously that's not much but it's double what you're saying..., much more percentage of simracers in have one, it's like direct drive wheels: how many percent of players on Steam have one??? And a triple screen? There was a survey a year ago on Racedepartment and there were at least 25 percent of voters who said they used VR in simracing. Many also had a triple screen, almost everyone had a good steering wheel and pedals, nothing to do with players who are not simracers... Do you understand the difference? Here we are on a simracing site, not Warhammer for example... Have a good day.

TheDoctorSteam said:

According to the steam hardware survey, 1.92% of their users has a VR headset
Source: https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

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BS, in my many sim groups there's alway about 30-40% of drivers in VR.

There is more VR users in Sim racing than gaming IMO.

DS6160 said:

I've read many times that UE is unsuitable for racing sims, the most prominent example until now being ACC, but I've never understood why specifically. Could someone here provide an in-depth explanation on why?

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VR can be tasking when using deferred rendering. Other than that, ACC is the best looking and driving sim on the market, by a mile.

What new upcoming racing titles actually have VR?
Forza Motorsport, Rennsport, WRC, none of them have it.
Are there any hopes for AC2, we don't even know what engine it has or content?

Andrew_WOT said:

What new upcoming racing titles actually have VR?
Forza Motorsport, Rennsport, WRC, none of them have it.
Are there any hopes for AC2, we don't even know what engine it has or content?

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LeMans ultimate, Rennsport, WRC all have VR announced. AC2 gets VR too even when it's unannounced, a to large part of their player base uses VR to ignore it. Forza don't, it's more a console game anyway.

FireWithin said:

BS, in my many sim groups there's alway about 30-40% of drivers in VR.

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Why BS?, taking as a base the all time concurrent users on steam as a 100%, that is 33,598,520 users. Yo still need to know more than 645k users/drivers to say the numbers are bs.
I'm pretty sure EA knows the numbers better than us, but again, look at the steam players that still plays DR/DR2.0.
Not saying having VR is a must for me, but happy to know that eventually will be added.

Source: https://steamcharts.com/search/?q=dirt+rally

gamma123152 said:

LeMans ultimate, Rennsport, WRC all have VR announced. AC2 gets VR too even when it's unannounced, a to large part of their player base uses VR to ignore it. Forza don't, it's more a console game anyway.

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LeMans ultimate is essentially just rFactor2 DLC so having parity with main title using the same engine makes sense.
With the rest, I want to see it to believe it, otherwise we wouldn't have No VR, No Buy posts in WRC news article that's "supposed" to have VR.
Both Rennsport and WRC are on UE5 and we all know how well VR worked with ACC on UE4 despite all Kunos team dedication and efforts to actually improve overall performance, including VR.
And Forza since FM7 is PC and XBox, not "more a console", you can check FH players number on Steam and it's not even full PC audience as it's also available from MS Store. Sorry, have to disagree on that brushing off "classification".
Now, let's look outside sim racing, what other AAA VR titles are currently in pipeline, announced, or recently released?
Nothing against VR, it's nice to have it IF it works properly, but cutting yourself from new titles just because VR is not there or not working, is completely unnecessary IMHO, there is a world outside VR.

Andrew_WOT said:

Nothing against VR

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Are you sure?

Andrew_WOT said:

there is a world outside VR

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Agree, outside sim racing. Sim racing is always VR for me. And Rennsport and Forza are not titles that I'm really interested in(but I would try both if they had VR). I just hope that WRC and AC2 have a good implementation, about AC2 I'm pretty convinced but we'll see.

Andrew_WOT said:

And Forza since FM7 is PC and XBox, not "more a console", you can check FH players number on Steam and it's not even full PC audience as it's also available from MS Store. Sorry, have to disagree on that brushing off "classification".

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https://www.reddit.com/r/ForzaHoriz...forza_players_use_a_steering_wheel/?rdt=61977

That's what I meant with that. With Motorsports maybe a bit more wheels but it's more a console type of game than all other named titles. If you disagree with that then it's up to you of course, no need to be sorry about it.

gamma123152 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ForzaHoriz...forza_players_use_a_steering_wheel/?rdt=61977

That's what I meant with that. With Motorsports maybe a bit more wheels but it's more a console type of game than all other named titles. If you disagree with that then it's up to you of course, no need to be sorry about it.

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Controller != Console
It might have more dense population on XBox as it's more affordable platform (that also supports wheels and pedals, btw), but Steam alone PC players figure is quite telling to discard it as a "console" game. Anyway, we are way off topic. My last post on this.

As someone who primarily uses VR for my sim racing, Its pretty easy to see the VR landscape has died and the user base is too small for it to be priority or a necessity.

Its no surprise (though disappointing) when developers choose to ignore it.

gamma123152 said:

This is incorrect. I see as sharp in the far distance as close distance in real life. What AMS2 shows in VR is accurate to me(at native pimax crystal resolution+msaa it's accurate compared to real life). With ACC you simply need way more GPU power than currently is available to get it properly sharp in the distance in VR. It is technically possible with ACC(100% render resolution+180% pixel density+DLAA for example) but then you need a 6090 to run it because it gives me 35-55fps or something on my Pimax Crystal+4090. But THEN it IS as sharp as AMS2. So it's a performance limitation and nothing else.

You should have your eyes checked because of what you suggested here. Because the blur in the distance occurs in real life if you have issues with your eye sight. So your comparison applies to you(with your eye) but not to the average VR racer with "correct eye sight".

That is issue number 1 of ACC(which is associated with Unreal Engine/race sim issues because it's the most known example). Other big issues are: TAA ghosting artifacts while moving your head/driving in corners, shadow pop in very close to the car even with Epic shadows/distance, non adjustable and non movable (with moving your head) mirrors in VR.

Those 4 things are the main UE/ACC visual issues currently(which affect VR WAY more than pancake). To me the physics of ACC feel still a bit static/artificial compared to other sims but I'm not sure if that's engine related or a design choice. This since it's very subjective.

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It is always surprisng how insulting you people are when one doesn't agree with you. I still can't understand what is your point with that. You think your sight is as acurrate on leaves at 300m away, that's just BS. This UE4 engine just simulate that to give a realistic rendering. And that's mainly something in flat screen. Everything in VR at this distance is ridiculous, whatever the game is. i If you are superman with a hyper config, being 0,5% of consumers (at max) you're not in the scope, so your condescending opinion is unsignificant.

roadyroad said:

It is always surprisng how insulting you people are when one doesn't agree with you. I still can't understand what is your point with that. You think your sight is as acurrate on leaves at 300m away, that's just BS. This UE4 engine just simulate that to give a realistic rendering. And that's mainly something in flat screen. Everything in VR at this distance is ridiculous, whatever the game is. i If you are superman with a hyper config, being 0,5% of consumers (at max) you're not in the scope, so your condescending opinion is unsignificant.

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What's insuling about telling the truth? I see exactly the same in distance in AMS2 in VR as in real life but ACC is way to blurry compared to real life in the distance even with the 4090 and ACC tweaked to the max. It's just how it is, it's not an opinion. If you see so blurry in the distance as ACC then you need glasses, it's not an insult, it my advice and honest opinion.

Blurry in the distance because of limited GPU power is not simulation of realism and it's not intended by Epic or Kunos. It's a limitation of deferred rendering of ACC in combination with the current available GPU hardware. So is the blur of TAA when moving your head/in corners/in mirrors.

It's not intended behaviour of Kunos/Epic at all. Not sure why you think/suggest that? If you prefer the way that it looks then it's completely fine of course and nice for you. But it was not a "design choice" of the developers.