2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

RacerX35 · Dec 16, 2021

Damage Inc said:
Because the decision isn't as controversial as you think.

1) ALL the teams agreed to try and end races under green flag conditions.
2) No-one could possibly know when the crash site was going to be cleared, Merc gambled on it not being cleared and the race ending under SC something they KNEW was to be avoided if possible.
3) The only issue is that Masi only had time to release those 5 cars before he invoked the rule that allowed him to bring in the SC.

Masi decided to let the race continue, his only other choice was to let it end behind the SC effectively denying Max ANY CHANCE whatsoever, Tell me how that would be fair? At least Lewis had a chance to defend, Max would have had ZERO chance if it ended under SC.

Now I realise UP to the latifi crash Max had less chance than a snowball in hell. But after the crash HE HAD A STRONG CHANCE. Masi let them fight it out rather than hand it on platter to Lewis.

Masi didn't cause the Latifi crash neither did he stop Merc/Lewis from pitting.

Agree 100%

Gevatter · Dec 16, 2021

Damage Inc said:
Someone else would buy that team, it's only "mercedes" by name and engine (other engine suppliers out there).

Maybe Didi Mateschitz could buy them, then there would be three Red Bull owned F1 teams

LMGiorni · Dec 16, 2021

mod-edit: removed

WPxNJ · Dec 16, 2021

Wow 59 pages? The F1 Silly Season started around page 41.

Dzul · Dec 16, 2021

. . . I don't think he'll just walk away but... is Lewis considering a sabbatical ?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-hopes-disillusioned-hamilton-doesnt-walk-from-f1/6885887/

cerebralvortex · Dec 16, 2021

Can you blame Lewis from walking away when you practically won your 8th WDC and it was taken from you? Such a sad story really.. So wrong.

Dzul · Dec 16, 2021

No, but I don't think it would be a retirement, rather a year off... Hamilton has considered it before:

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/255412/hamilton-considered-taking-sabbatical-to-rest-his-mind-and-body

Mercedes has Nyck de Vries who could fill in next to George Russell for a year.
It's all just speculation, of course. Time will tell.

WiisardNic · Dec 16, 2021

Sasha Jednak said:
I don't think so, they could have risked and pit as soon as they saw Latifi in the wall. But, they pretty much failed every time when they had to risk in 50-50 plays, so they stayed consistent and failed again.

Yes, that is the only time they could have pitted, and came out ok, immaterial to how the safety car restart eventually took place.

jonelsorel said:
You seem to respond just for the sake of responding, which is a very widespread thing these days. It might hide some cognitive impairment.

I don't care who won, it's besides the discussion here. No one here was arguing what should or could have happened, just the facts. The gist of the matter is that Masi knew all too well when he gave the green light, overriding all other rules in the book, that Max was on fresh softs, and Lewis on worn hards, basically leaving Lewis a sitting duck for the sake of "sport" or "entertainment". The fact that Masi removed only the 5 cars in between Lewis and Max and let the "race" resume one lap early is just the cherry on top. The discussion here is about fairness and not swaying a race/championship one way or the other through dictatorial power, even if that suits one of the 2 camps.

If you fail to understand this simple idea (which your response will surely clarify), either imagine Max was ahead and Lewis behind, or get a checkup from the top down. Arrivederci!

I've been separating the issue of "how the restart went down", and Mercedes tyre choice. They are two separate issues.
The offset in tyre-choice between Max and Lewis was baked in from the moment Mercedes told Lewis not to pit when the safety car was initially deployed. Masi's original decision to not let lapped cars pass was made 2 laps later.

All I've been saying is that people who are saying "Oh, but the tyres, that's SO UNFAIR", etc etc, don't get that Mercedes put themselves in that situation. Sure, the restart process became a shemozzle, and that's something that should, and hopefully will, be be addressed and clarified by the FIA. But at Lap 54, there was still always a chance that the race would restart correctly. To blame Masi for Mercedes not pitting (Which is what is initially being suggested) for new tyres is just simply incorrect. I can accept that you didn't make that direct claim, and while tyre choice did AFFECT the outcome, it wasn't the CAUSE. This is what I've been trying to say. I can 100% imagine that if it was the other way around, or with different drivers, the same decision would have been made by Masi. Doesn't make it 100% right, but I'm quite certain there was no intent to favour one specific team/driver over another. Otherwise there'd have been a safety car period when Giovinazzi stopped on track.

Damage Inc said:
Because the decision isn't as controversial as you think.

1) ALL the teams agreed to try and end races under green flag conditions.
2) No-one could possibly know when the crash site was going to be cleared, Merc gambled on it not being cleared and the race ending under SC something they KNEW was to be avoided if possible.
3) The only issue is that Masi only had time to release those 5 cars before he invoked the rule that allowed him to bring in the SC.

Masi decided to let the race continue, his only other choice was to let it end behind the SC effectively denying Max ANY CHANCE whatsoever, Tell me how that would be fair? At least Lewis had a chance to defend, Max would have had ZERO chance if it ended under SC.

Now I realise UP to the latifi crash Max had less chance than a snowball in hell. But after the crash HE HAD A STRONG CHANCE. Masi let them fight it out rather than hand it on platter to Lewis.

Masi didn't cause the Latifi crash neither did he stop Merc/Lewis from pitting.

This is effectively what I'm trying to say.
I mean.. it is a little more controversial, but that is mainly due to the confusion caused by the FIA regulations.

I guess it's kind of like the FIA have taken 15.3 to be the same as Football's "spirit of the game" law.

muzikant · Dec 16, 2021

Dzul said:
. . . I don't think he'll just walk away but... is Lewis considering a sabbatical ?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-hopes-disillusioned-hamilton-doesnt-walk-from-f1/6885887/

View attachment 525486

a bit of theater suits that man

paracletus · Dec 16, 2021

Russel and Norris at Merc next year wouldn't surprise me at all, but we'll see.

Verstappen says he's been unlucky this year, but not really any less lucky than other drivers:

Silverstone - most of the current drivers chimed in and called it racing incident (leclerk, alonso to name a few)
Fortunate to get handed 12 points for not racing at all at spa
Lucky to get away with the brake-checking at Arabia. Could have been disqualified for it
Luck beyond all else on the last race

Overall, it's time to suck it up and move on.
It was either going to be him or hamilton, not much between the two over the whole year.

muzikant · Dec 16, 2021

cerebralvortex said:
Can you blame Lewis from walking away when you practically won your 8th WDC and it was taken from you? Such a sad story really.. So wrong.

Realy? Finaly you say the world championship belongs to Hamilton be happy he came back in the championship after Brasil and bad luck from Max. FiA penalty's.. Torpedo,s

muzikant · Dec 16, 2021

paracletus said:
Russel and Norris at Merc next year wouldn't surprise me at all, but we'll see.

Verstappen says he's been unlucky this year, but not really any less lucky than other drivers:

Silverstone - most of the current drivers chimed in and called it racing incident (leclerk, alonso to name a few)

Fortunate to get handed 12 points for not racing at all at spa

Lucky to get away with the brake-checking at Arabia. Could have been disqualified for it

Luck beyond all else on the last race

Overall, it's time to suck it up and move on.
It was either going to be him or hamilton, not much between the two over the whole year.

you tell it a bit in the light version enough has happened most discussed season in the formula 1 after Prost Senna. Don't forget that Max has been leading all summer and Lewis came back because of some strange decisions

eco2006 · Dec 16, 2021

muzikant said:
Realy? Finaly you say the world championship belongs to Hamilton be happy he came back in the championship after Brasil and bad luck from Max. FiA penalty's.. Torpedo,s

So your favorite Max finally won the Championship, why can you not just stop with all that *hitposting, it seems you get more satisfaction of "arguing" here than enjoying that your darling won?

muzikant · Dec 16, 2021

eco2006 said:
So your favorite Max finally won the Championship, why can you not just stop with all that *hitposting, it seems you get more satisfaction of "arguing" here than enjoying that your darling won?

you are right maybe the merc fans should accept it as there are quite a few pages about it

eco2006 · Dec 17, 2021

muzikant said:
you are right maybe the merc fans should accept it as there are quite a few pages about it

I can understand Mercedes fans arguing, because they feel robbed, but why won't you just let them be and stand over it being "part" of the winning team.

Stuart Thomson · Dec 17, 2021

Bram Hengeveld said:
This is a serious question for all max, lewis and fia fans: isn't that all what we wanted? Or are there people out there who prefered this insane season to be decided under a yellow caution?

I'm a neither fan, and I certainly wanted it to go down to this situation....except not after one of the teams in contention put on new tyres, then having the order on the track manipulated so they are next to each other, and only allowing one lap in those circumstances. That's why I found it intensely unsatisfying, personally. If you're going to manipulate the order into that situation, you have to take into account the state the cars are in, surely? Otherwise its effectively rigging the result.

That's why this whole season has a big old asterisk next to it for me now, which is unbelievably disappointing, considering some of the racing we have witnessed.

muzikant · Dec 17, 2021

eco2006 said:
eco2006 said:

I can understand Mercedes fans arguing, because they feel robbed, but why won't you just let them be and stand over it being "part" of the winning team.

Click to expand...

I'm just saying my opinion just like you and everyone else so don't understand the problem. Okay I haven't been nice to Toto but I don't like that man. next year a new season

I'm just saying my opinion just like you and everyone else so don't understand the problem. Okay I haven't been nice to Toto but I don't like that man. next year a new season

Badwheels · Dec 17, 2021

Wow, this thread is still alive ? I just saw some noise about Hamilton retiring. It's just that, noise. Lewis needs separation. He doesn't want to go through life with, "tied with Michael Schmaucher for most championships". He wants to be alone at the top. He has one year on his contract. Think about it, quit now tied, or go to the end of your contract and get the 8th. This dude rolls with people like MJ, Lebron, Usain. You know they are telling him, " Finish Number 1, go back and kick his ass".

Dude is just being pissy like anyone would be if they were in his shoes. People forget the sh!t him and his father put up with when he was karting. He is always going to see plots, even if it's not.

muzikant · Dec 17, 2021

Badwheels said:
Wow, this thread is still alive ? I just saw some noise about Hamilton retiring. It's just that, noise. Lewis needs separation. He doesn't want to go through life with, "tied with Michael Schmaucher for most championships". He wants to be alone at the top. He has one year on his contract. Think about it, quit now tied, or go to the end of your contract and get the 8th. This dude rolls with people like MJ, Lebron, Usain. You know they are telling him, " Finish Number 1, go back and kick his ass".

Dude is just being pissy like anyone would be if they were in his shoes. People forget the sh!t him and his father put up with when he was karting. He is always going to see plots, even if it's not.

I,m sure he try to take revence next year. Both drivers are great. And I hope for more young guns.. Russel, Norris Le clerc Sainz, good for the sport

Jean-Pierre Sarti · Dec 17, 2021

Thanks to F1 TV I've watched the last lap a few times from Hamilton's in-car camera. Just before the race resumes his engineer says, "you have overtake on each of the straights". Since Hamilton is ahead, this presumably means he'll be threatened on the straights. But Verstappen passed him on a turn before the straight. So, bad advice from the team, or was Hamilton just caught out? In all the fuss about the officiating (which in my opinion was more about poorly communicated decisions that flat out wrong ones) it's kind of been lost that Hamilton was in the lead after the safety car went in and got passed.

Look at this (old) description from Mercedes about where the team members sit:

In the garage, Toto sits at the very back of the Engineering Station. While many other team principals sit on the pit wall, Toto prefers to be in the garage during the sessions.

As he puts it, "the risk of distracting the operation is much higher than adding value, so I think sitting in the back of the garage and having an overview is more important for my role than sitting on the pit wall".

Next to Toto, on either side of the garage, are the two Race Engineers - Peter Bonnington on Lewis' side, Tony Ross on Valtteri's side.

You have to wonder whether Wolff's tantrums might have an adverse affect on team communications with the drivers.

Also, from the same article:

Ron Meadows, Sporting Director, sits on the left-hand side of the pit wall. His role is to make sure the team always operates in compliance with the FIA Sporting Regulations. If there is an issue, he will be the person talking to FIA Formula One Race Director Charlie Whiting.

Oh yeah?

I don't think I'd like to work for Mr. Wolff.

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	1:22.109
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	1:22.480
3	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	1:22.931
4	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	1:22.947
5	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	1:22.992
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	1:23.036
7	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	1:23.122
8	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	1:23.220
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	1:23.389
10	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	1:23.409
11	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	1:23.460
12	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	1:24.043
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	1:24.066
14	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	1:24.251
15	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	1:24.305
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	1:24.338
17	George RUSSELL	Williams	1:24.423
18	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	1:24.779
19	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	1:24.906
20	Nikita MAZEPIN	Haas	1:25.685

1	Max VERSTAPPEN	Red Bull	LAP 58
2	Lewis HAMILTON	Mercedes	2.256
3	Carlos SAINZ	Ferrari	5.173
4	Yuki TSUNODA	Alpha Tauri	5.692
5	Pierre GASLY	Alpha Tauri	6.531
6	Valtteri BOTTAS	Mercedes	7.463
7	Lando NORRIS	McLaren	59.2
8	Fernando ALONSO	Alpine	61.708
9	Esteban OCON	Alpine	64.026
10	Charles LECLERC	Ferrari	66.057
11	Sebastian VETTEL	Aston Martin	67.527
12	Daniel RICCIARDO	McLaren	+1L
13	Lance STROLL	Aston Martin	+1L
14	Mick SCHUMACHER	Haas	+1L
15	Sergio PÉREZ	Red Bull	DNF
16	Nicholas LATIFI	Williams	DNF
17	Antonio GIOVINAZZI	Alfa Romeo	DNF
18	George RUSSELL	Williams	DNF
19	Kimi RÄIKKÖNEN	Alfa Romeo	DNF

2021 Formula One Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

Who will win the 2021 World Championship?

Max Verstappen

Lewis Hamilton

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