What do people now days think of Ai of gtr2?

[GP STONER]

I like to know what things people come across what they dont like about the ai.

In other words what people think that needs to be better to get a better experiance.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

I think the biggest issue is that they struggle to pass each other. Also, they don't respect blue flag (but I am planning to fix that in a plugin at some point, it might be fixable). Another problem they seem to breakdown after save/load the race.

That said, GTR2 AI is very mod dependent. I do not want to single out mods, but in some mods it works very well, producing behavior like seen on TV, which is my personal preference. I prefer AI that replicates professional racer behavior, in a race with financial and health consequences. So I guess I am quite happy with it as is, in some mods

 

[GP STONER]

Another problem they seem to breakdown after save/load the race.

Sometimes when i go from qualy to race my grid slot has been changed no matter what i do.

Limit qualy laps (6 laps) let them all drive those 6 laps.

Example i qualy in 1st place when i click to race my grid slot is 28 or something.

It happend on simbim tracks but also mod.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Sometimes when i go from qualy to race my grid slot has been changed no matter what i do.

Limit qualy laps (6 laps) let them all drive those 6 laps.

Example i qualy in 1st place when i click to race my grid slot is 28 or something.

It happend on simbim tracks but also mod.

Did you let Qualification time to run out?

 

[GP STONER]

Did you let Qualification time to run out?

Yes and limit the qualy lap amount.
But also then it sometimes happen

 

[Jempy]

Are you running the 2 qualify sessions ?
If you decide to run just one ( and not 2 ) ... you have to choose the 2nd and not the 1st session.
Choosing only the 1st without the 2nd one .... is when the problem happens: the grid is never correct.

 

[GP STONER]

Do somebody else got this problem

When you have lets say barcelona.qual.svm and barcelona.race.svm

And you go directly to the race start (no qualy or free practice)
They dont use the setup files

 

[GP STONER]

I think the biggest issue is that they struggle to pass each other. Also, they don't respect blue flag

1. If they cant pass each other they cant pass a car even under blue flag condition.

I got a test race going on at the moment 36 ai cars no human drivers 5 laps of spa

I have run it a few times to see if i get some what the same result or if its still random.

I got a very bagged up car in the field (losing front and rear) so very slow but the leaders passed him easy, no bumping even braked so the faster ai car did not smash in the rear of the slower car

All cars passed the slow/lapped cars with in a few corners. From the 36 cars only one or 2 did get some damage by passing him mostly unlucky moments like spinning in front or been really slowly in some corners

 

[The Iron Wolf]

1. If they cant pass each other they cant pass a car even under blue flag condition.

I got a test race going on at the moment 36 ai cars no human drivers 5 laps of spa

I have run it a few times to see if i get some what the same result or if its still random.

I got a very bagged up car in the field (losing front and rear) so very slow but the leaders passed him easy, no bumping even braked so the faster ai car did not smash in the rear of the slower car

All cars passed the slow/lapped cars with in a few corners. From the 36 cars only one or 2 did get some damage by passing him mostly unlucky moments like spinning in front or been really slowly in some corners

I think bigger problem is long races - hours, and 24hr race. But maybe it again depends on mod/track.

For blue flag, I was thinking of plugin giving temporary weight penalties to cars under blue But not sure when I'll get to it.

 

[GP STONER]

I think bigger problem is long races - hours, and 24hr race. But maybe it again depends on mod/track.

For blue flag, I was thinking of plugin giving temporary weight penalties to cars under blue But not sure when I'll get to it.

Like in gt sport when people cross the limits they will temporary been slowed down/reduced engine speed.

Yeah that could work.
Maybe try to contact the guy that made the wx patch how he did that (the patch that allows changing weather during race)

I was testing today with some values
In the aiw file.

Worstadjust 0.85
Midadjust 1.100
Bestadjust 1.20

I got my slider in game at 100%
And ai aggression to real (i believe its 0.85 in plr file.)

Midadjust is problably the 100%
Bestadjust will be 120% i think

But when i bumped up the
Midadjust to 3.000
The cars laptimes around 2:25 on spa to 2:05, Above 3.000 did slowed them down again and did some weird things to the cars/ai.

 

[GP STONER]

Well i got away to make things more variable in terms of speed and overtaking and pitstop strategy.

Yes there is a way to give ai cars pitstop strategy without setting the fuel x2 x 3 x4

Also there is a fix for not letting ai run out of fuel.(very simple adjust the fuel use in the aiw file)
With the predicted/actuel fuel burn function of gtr2 xd (left corner bottom) to get the main gtr2 motec fuel burn gauge right with the xd one. Never had issues again.

Even not got cars anymore that gtr2 motec says with 25 litres is same as 7 laps but when you look in xd it says you got fuel for 12 laps (xd one is more up to date) and ai cars dont pit with more then 3 or 4 laps of fuel left (in the xd one)
Or run out of fuel by incorrect representation of the motec fuel gauge

Strategy.

Well the amount of fuel put in the tank at the start of a race is with ai cars not implemented by setup file (xxxx.svm or xxxx.qual/race.svm)

Its the one inside the hdc file is hardwired.

But when you change the allowed volume 1.0. 1.0. 100 the last one is the max amount of fuel.

Set it to 50 or 60, so car weight is not changed, the weight of the fuel tank is not changed only the "empty" space within the tank is changed.

And if you want you can do that for all tracks And use the commandline for 2nd car function.

Car changes when switching to a track like from monza to spa.
It put inside the .car file

Command is something like this
Change to 2nd car at BESSpa "gamedata\teams\audi r8 ultra lms\audi racing team wrt\1201S.car"
(Note this is not the actual command i am not at my pc now i cant look it up rigt now)

And in the 2nd car you put in the class thingy ", BESSpa"

The same name as ai vehicle filter in your gdb file of the track in question.

Download the adac/blancpain2012 mod with trackpack its not on rd i think its on esport.de To see what i am talking about.

With that 2nd car function you could give every single car there own maximum amount of fuel by simply give every "2nd" car there own hdc file so you can give for example at monza 60 litres max amount of fuel but at spa 100

Even the 3nd or 4nd car is called 2nd car by this option btw.

But this way you can also change the 2nd pitstop and the 3th 4th untill 8th

So ai start fuel is 50. Ai first stop can be filled up to 75 and for the last stop ai could do a little spash or 40 litres what ever you want.

But also you could give car number 2 70 litres and car 1 at the start 50 litres. Mixed strategy

When i am back at my pc i post the right commands.

 

[GP STONER]

in. car file

HDVehicle=R8LMS_Ultra.hdc this is telling what hdc file needs to be loaded.
you could change it in what ever you like example R8LMS_Ultra_1.hdc

And copy and past the original hdc and rename it what ever you named HDVehicle=

ChangeCarAtRace="BES_Spa"
2ndVEHFile="GameData\Teams\EEC_GT3_Addon\Audi R8 LMS Ultra\2012 BES Belgian Audi Club Team WRT\12101S_R8LMS_Ultra.car"

class thingy from the first car
classes="BES_2012, PRO_2012, BES_Monza, BES_Silverstone, BES_PaulRicard"
ComparativeTime=100

class thingy from 2nd car:
classes="BES_2012, PRO_2012, 2ndCar, BES_Spa"
ComparativeTime=100

the fuel thing inside the hdc

FuelRange=(1.0, 1.0, 100) < this one you could do 1.0, 1.0, 50 so the max amount of fuel is 50
FuelSetting=50 < this one will auto adjust in game to the last thing of the live above this one. keep in mind 100 is in this line 99, Ai is allways trying to put the max amount of fuel in it every pitstop untill the end of the race like if there is only 5 laps left. so if you limit the amount of fuel the ai could take every pitstop.. you could make somewhat of a pitstop strategy if you catch my drift

NumPitstopsRange=(0, 1, 4)
NumPitstopsSetting=3
Pitstop1Range=(1.0, 1.0, 100) < this one, if you do this one 75 the second pitstop they can load up to 75 and so on
Pitstop1Setting=50
Pitstop2Range=(1.0, 1.0, 100)< this one
Pitstop2Setting=50
Pitstop3Range=(1.0, 1.0, 100)
Pitstop3Setting=50

 

[GP STONER]

Are you running the 2 qualify sessions ?
If you decide to run just one ( and not 2 ) ... you have to choose the 2nd and not the 1st session.
Choosing only the 1st without the 2nd one .... is when the problem happens: the grid is never correct.

Thx you btw that worked.. stupid not to think about that one.. i did allways use qualy 1 guess sometimes it i was lucky that it not changed when clicking to race

 

[MJQT]

Saw something on another forum which suddenly made me think of this thread, which I've followed since @The Iron Wolf wrote:

For blue flag, I was thinking of plugin giving temporary weight penalties to cars under blue But not sure when I'll get to it.

Would be so great if blue flag behaviour (esp. top class overtaking in traffic) by GTR2 AI was fixed!

Only just became aware of this old mod for rF1: https://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=rFactor AI improvement

Which puts the same idea into practice! I know rF1 and GTR2 are not identical internally, but perhaps this could serve as inspiration (or even a jump start) for a GTR2 plugin?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Saw something on another forum which suddenly made me think of this thread, which I've followed since @The Iron Wolf wrote:

Would be so great if blue flag behaviour (esp. top class overtaking in traffic) by GTR2 AI was fixed!

Only just became aware of this old mod for rF1: https://www.rfactorcentral.com/detail.cfm?ID=rFactor AI improvement

Which puts the same idea into practice! I know rF1 and GTR2 are not identical internally, but perhaps this could serve as inspiration (or even a jump start) for a GTR2 plugin?

Yep, I still plan on doing it, not sure when though. But, PM me if you are interested in testing. AI changes require a lot of testing, and whether I will attempt this depends a lot on whether I get help testing.

That said, I am not 100% sure where the problem is. I've been enjoying GTE/LMP2/LMP1 events and LMP2/LMP1 are more than capable of passing of slower class. Which makes me wonder if problem is with AIWs or talent files, not just general inability of AI of passing slower classes. Which makes above trick even lower priority honestly.

 

[MJQT]

PM me if you are interested in testing. AI changes require a lot of testing, and whether I will attempt this depends a lot on whether I get help testing.

Will do!

I am not 100% sure where the problem is. I've been enjoying GTE/LMP2/LMP1 events and LMP2/LMP1 are more than capable of passing of slower class. Which makes me wonder if problem is with AIWs or talent files, not just general inability of AI of passing slower classes.

Interesting! If you drive a top class car, do you find yourself passing traffic at a similar pace to the top class AI? I've personally always found the top class AI super slow in traffic compared to me, which is an immersion killer for races (cause I end up gaining places simply due to AI weirdness).

Not a 100% reproducible bug report or anything, but I recall investigating the poor behaviour once by running HQ GT and NGT cars at Virtua_LM 1990s Le Mans, getting out of my car early on, accelerating time until the top class hits NGT traffic, then going into replay mode and riding with the AI watching them navigate traffic from hood cam. Mostly I recall top class punts of lower class cars at the chicanes and top class getting stuck behind lower class cars on the straights (the typical "blue flag" bug). I'm guessing a decent test bed would be doing a similar thing with stock content at Enna Pergusa, maybe, given the straights and chicanes?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

You are right - AI is kind of hesitant in passing slower AI cars, and that's pretty general trait. I was just pointing out that they can do it, it's not like they never do it.

In any case, thanks for the link. That plugin is impressive amount of work and has interesting ideas that might come in handy in the future Any ideas if the author is still active anywhere? One especially interesting thing is that he managed to enhance collisions, that's a big one.

 

[MJQT]

I was just pointing out that they can do it, it's not like they never do it.

Yes, for sure! Sometimes reading people's negative comments about the AI you'd wonder... but thankfully they do pass, just suboptimally.

In any case, thanks for the link. That plugin is impressive amount of work and has interesting ideas that might come in handy in the future Any ideas if the author is still active anywhere?

You're welcome! I honestly have no idea if the author is still active. It's possible!

 

[MJQT]

Just coming back to this old thread to share that I uploaded that AI improvement plugin for rFactor 1 here on RD so more people could download it and maybe explore what's going on in there -- like @The Iron Wolf, for example.

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ai-improvement-plugin-by-jr.49622/

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Just coming back to this old thread to share that I uploaded that AI improvement plugin for rFactor 1 here on RD so more people could download it and maybe explore what's going on in there -- like @The Iron Wolf, for example.

https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/ai-improvement-plugin-by-jr.49622/

Yes, if only author was around One of the biggest issues in GTR2 is collisions, almost holy grail problem, and it sounds like this person figured it out... that's impressive. But if you are thinking I could somehow magically open this plugin to see how it works, it does not work that way, it's very, very difficult and months and months of work... It is especially difficult due it not being for GTR2. I hope someone gets ahold of the author and sends him my way. Maybe he'll share his knowledge, not guaranteed he'd want to.

The rest is relatively easy to do, like making AI more respective of blue flag, and I'll get to it one day. Improving collisions is one of my big dreams though, and I have absolutely no clue how GTR2 calculates them.