AC VOTE NOW FOR TRACK OF THE MONTH: February 2024

[maxilogan]

double post, sry

Counts as double vote, @HF2000

 

[eN1xes]

Ahvenisto

 

[HF2000]

You have my vote for Brands!

Please read the rules, Omar. Brands is forbidden!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Please read the rules, Omar. Brands is forbidden!

Ah,

the perks of being race Director and sometimes ignoring democracy (for the the greater good of course)

Just kidding/ribbing Han.

If it´s gonna be road america ( NOT endorsing it yet, I won´t complain too much)

BTW, don´t forget to register for Grobnik, that´s gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride.
Guess who was just awarded (another) Offroad Award

 

[Allan Ramsbottom]

Lets do something different guys...D,join Prenoiur

 

[Twoddle]

BTW Bram Hengeveld notified me that we can't use the Abarth 124 as it's an external hosted mod.

You could try asking the mod creator to upload the car to RD maybe.

 

[HF2000]

You could try asking the mod creator to upload the car to RD maybe.

Ah, I've already done that. No answer yet!

 

[gearwhine]

You could try asking the mod creator to upload the car to RD maybe.

No point, it would be kicked off anyway as it is not scratch made and contains a huge amount of Kunos content i think. I believe a lot of modders do not list on RD because they know it will be removed. I was telling a story the other day of a very nice mod that got removed for only having a tiny bit of Kunos in it and i know he wont do it again.

 

[HF2000]

No point, it would be kicked off anyway as it is not scratch made and contains a huge amount of Kunos content i think. I believe a lot of modders do not list on RD because they know it will be removed. I was telling a story the other day of a very nice mod that got removed for only having a tiny bit of Kunos in it and i know he wont do it again.

But isn't it allowed to use KUNOS content? I thought KUNOS would stimulate modding because it adds value to AC.

 

[gearwhine]

I agree with you Han. But it is the RD masters who do not i feel.
As an example, type in

De Tomaso P70​

on RD.
Link is for a skin for a car that was deleated within hours.
Then read the download link on GTPlanet for the car and ask yourself what is wrong with that. He could not of been more honest about where he gets his tech from.
I get it about copyright law but this is going over the top in my opinion and holding back our hobby with lack of choice maybe.

 

[HF2000]

Yes Steve,

I do not understand it either. The Abarth 124 and a lot of other content are publicly available on Assettoworld. How come that site doesn't have any legal problems?

 

[stigs2cousin]

I guess web site owners are "different levels of careful" about this.

I mean, Volkswagen had no problems with their Diesel engines, until they did.
Mercedes and BMW were safe, until they weren´t.

So, the only way to know the reasoning for sure is to ask the people in charge.
I guess they are obligated by law to share theyr reasoning with the customer (us).

For example, GTPlanet is legally at home in the United States, so they have no problem with EU copyright laws and lawyers how make a living out of persuing copyright infringements.

Assetoworld refused to disclose it´s country of origin in a short search, so it´s dubious.
It doesn´t have the legal notice required by EU law. Also I found some claims ( which I did not research) of pirated content.

 

[Shed 17]

I think Carsten has hit the right note here. For many years I worked for a large motor insurance company. As you might guess, insurance companies operate on balancing risk against cover, premium income and operating costs. They are also one of the most heavily regulated industries in the UK.

But internally they do have different levels of appetite about how they go about operating, and the one I worked for were very risk adverse when it came to meeting the regulatory requirements and would do a ‘belt and braces’ job in every area, cross all the ‘T’s and dot all the ‘I’s to satisfy not only the regulators but also the board of directors.

However, this comes at a cost, and I know some other insurers would not operate at the same level but would save money on systems, staff etc but would be prepared to face fines if they fell foul of regulatory audits. And the word ‘if’ is crucial here as if they could get away with it they were millions of pounds/euros/dollars up and could easily afford the fines if the regulator did ever come knocking.

Similar thing back in the day with a large American motor manufacturer, where on one occasion a family burnt to death in one of their cars. The fault was traced to a 50 cent part in the fuel system but instead of recalling hundreds of thousands of their vehicles they made a business decision to pay any compensation if it occurred again as that was ‘cheaper’ than recalling all the vehicles.

Now I know nothing of internet copyright laws and these may differ in different countries, but the internet is full of dubious content and nowadays it is very difficult to really put a finger on who originally created content and what permissions are granted to reproduce it.

 

[Shed 17]

I give my vote to another very well known but surprisingly not used track starting with Z.... It's Zolder.

Here is a legal very well looking and working version at RD. I wonder, why it's not driven here. It has no flaws as far as I know. Saying "0.1" in the title is irritating though, because it feels like a kunos standard track...

I have had a look at the Pascalwb Zolder track with a view to using it for some Thursday racing. But there does seem to be a problem with the grass.
I think Reik uses vanilla AC and not CM, as despite turning off the grass FX the grass appears as a mirror reflecting the sky and I can't find a fix. The posts about the Mod also point this fault out and apparently the mod was created before CM existed and is fine in the standard AC.
Shame as the Zolder track does provide some close racing, there is another version but unfortunately this is not on RD.

 

[gearwhine]

If it was about copyright laws it should not apply to Kunos as they left it open to modding. The problem is that some modders are porting over stuff from other games. All very clever and ok if they have permission but I understand the problem with that source of material. A lot of tracks and cars are adapted from other modders from rfactor 2 as an example and as long as they get permission from the creator there should be no problem. It's a grey area but I think it should be somewhat more laid back. No one gets taken to court. Mike's problem was completely different but that never became legal anyway. There is some great creative stuff out there (and some crap) and i will admit I vacuum it all up for personal use but I think it is a shame we cannot use it for our own benefit.

 

[gearwhine]

I have had a look at the Pascalwb Zolder track with a view to using it for some Thursday racing. But there does seem to be a problem with the grass.
I think Reik uses vanilla AC and not CM, as despite turning off the grass FX the grass appears as a mirror reflecting the sky and I can't find a fix. The posts about the Mod also point this fault out and apparently the mod was created before CM existed and if fine in the standard AC.
Shame as the Zolder track does provide some close racing, there is another version but unfortunately this is not on RD.

And there is the problem right there. The reboot track is excellent but we can't use it. We have to use some ancient crap instead. I don't see the reboot team in jail by the way or other hosts that use the track for that matter. Just be nice to be able to relax the rules i guess

 

[stigs2cousin]

The Reboot Team seems to operate from Hungary, so why not contact them and get written permission to use their work commercially?

I don´t do Facebook, but judging from the website they are quite active there.

It may also be waking up sleeping dogs, so maybe let it rest and be content with the broad spectrum of cars and tracks we have?

To be clear, I love mod tracks and mod cars.
What you do on your own PC is absolutely up to you (and me on mine ),
but the moment you go public with a paid service I feel you better steer from grey zones.

 

[Shed 17]

The Reboot Team seems to operate from Hungary, so why not contact them and get written permission to use their work commercially?

I don´t do Facebook, but judging from the website they are quite active there.

It may also be waking up sleeping dogs, so maybe let it rest and be content with the broad spectrum of cars and tracks we have?

To be clear, I love mod tracks and mod cars.
What you do on your own PC is absolutely up to you (and me on mine ),
but the moment you go public with a paid service I feel you better steer from grey zones.

Hi Carsten and Steve.

I emailed the Reboot team in 2022 as I wanted to use the Snetterton 2017 version.

Here is their response;

Thank you for reaching out to us. If a track is not on Racedepartment it most likely means it is not eligible to be uploaded there because of the copyrights issues. Old Reboot Project and new Reboot Team do not create tracks from scratch, they were/are just fixing and improving old abandoned projects or converting tracks from other simulators. In most cases these tracks were converted without author's approval (author not reachable, not known or the track was ripped from other game), so they are shared among people through "underground" forums and discords. If you need to stick to legal mods, RaceDepartment is currently the best choice.

Best regards
Roman "Fuzo" Fusaty

 

[gearwhine]

Hi Carsten and Steve.

I emailed the Reboot team in 2022 as I wanted to use the Snetterton 2017 version.

Here is their response;

Thank you for reaching out to us. If a track is not on Racedepartment it most likely means it is not eligible to be uploaded there because of the copyrights issues. Old Reboot Project and new Reboot Team do not create tracks from scratch, they were/are just fixing and improving old abandoned projects or converting tracks from other simulators. In most cases these tracks were converted without author's approval (author not reachable, not known or the track was ripped from other game), so they are shared among people through "underground" forums and discords. If you need to stick to legal mods, RaceDepartment is currently the best choice.

Best regards
Roman "Fuzo" Fusaty

Hi Paul, i remember you shared that email with us at the time. Kind of says it all really. The best is out there but we can't use it.
Still, does not explain why some scratch built mods get thrown off RD yet quite a few shady mods appear to be ok. The car i mentioned a few posts back is a classic example.
It is what it is i guess.

 

[JamKart22]

I think Carsten has hit the right note here. For many years I worked for a large motor insurance company. As you might guess, insurance companies operate on balancing risk against cover, premium income and operating costs. They are also one of the most heavily regulated industries in the UK.

But internally they do have different levels of appetite about how they go about operating, and the one I worked for were very risk adverse when it came to meeting the regulatory requirements and would do a ‘belt and braces’ job in every area, cross all the ‘T’s and dot all the ‘I’s to satisfy not only the regulators but also the board of directors.

However, this comes at a cost, and I know some other insurers would not operate at the same level but would save money on systems, staff etc but would be prepared to face fines if they fell foul of regulatory audits. And the word ‘if’ is crucial here as if they could get away with it they were millions of pounds/euros/dollars up and could easily afford the fines if the regulator did ever come knocking.

Similar thing back in the day with a large American motor manufacturer, where on one occasion a family burnt to death in one of their cars. The fault was traced to a 50 cent part in the fuel system but instead of recalling hundreds of thousands of their vehicles they made a business decision to pay any compensation if it occurred again as that was ‘cheaper’ than recalling all the vehicles.

Now I know nothing of internet copyright laws and these may differ in different countries, but the internet is full of dubious content and nowadays it is very difficult to really put a finger on who originally created content and what permissions are granted to reproduce it.

The USA car fire case was an interesting bit of history. It related to the Ford Pinto and some research on the cost benefit analysis by ford to upgrade all cars by all manufactures was used against them in a legal case...

Ford Pinto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's famously known as the "let them burn" memo