One last comment for today. I finally got around to taking a good look at the facial interface. While it's one of the better ones I've seen out of the box, it's not quite as soft as the VR cover replacements I have for the Index and Quest. The good news is that it is velcroed on, and pretty much the same shape and size as the Index face pads, so my spare Index memory foam pad fit right in, and makes the headset a smidge more comfy.
Varjo Aero
- Thread starter Rearview
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I can confirm that no controllers of any kind are required to set up or use the Aero. You can pair Vive or Index controllers if you want to, but that is completely optional.[...] Let's see if I can set up the system without a controller. Don't want to order useless stuff. Maybe it's a mistake of not ordering a controller right away, but let's find out
@HoiHman asked me on the Varjo Discord if I could compare the Index and Aero FOVs, and see how many clicks away from your face the Index screen has to be to give me a horizontal FOV similar to what I see in the Varjo.
I wasn't sure how appropriate it was to answer that over there, but I'm pretty sure if fits right in on this forum. I figured pictures were worth a few thousand words, so here is approximately how much of the scene I could see in iRacing, looking straight ahead, sitting in the Skippy cockpit in the COTA pits, after starting a Test Drive. All images below were cut out of a 2d screenshot from the same position. The view inside the headsets is actually shaped more like an oval racing circuit, or a hockey rink, with rounded corners.
On the Index, with the mask pressed as much as possible against my face:
On the Index, five notches away from my face:
On the Aero, somewhat firmly pressed against my face:
So, to answer @HoiHman's question, with my face shape, using the Index with the screen 5 notches away from my face gives me a horizontal FOV which feels about the same as what I get on the Aero.
There's a larger difference in the vertical direction, but that's not something I notice while driving.
The horizontal field of view on the Aero is actually a little more restricted compared to the Index than what I had realized.
I wasn't sure how appropriate it was to answer that over there, but I'm pretty sure if fits right in on this forum. I figured pictures were worth a few thousand words, so here is approximately how much of the scene I could see in iRacing, looking straight ahead, sitting in the Skippy cockpit in the COTA pits, after starting a Test Drive. All images below were cut out of a 2d screenshot from the same position. The view inside the headsets is actually shaped more like an oval racing circuit, or a hockey rink, with rounded corners.
On the Index, with the mask pressed as much as possible against my face:
On the Index, five notches away from my face:
On the Aero, somewhat firmly pressed against my face:
So, to answer @HoiHman's question, with my face shape, using the Index with the screen 5 notches away from my face gives me a horizontal FOV which feels about the same as what I get on the Aero.
There's a larger difference in the vertical direction, but that's not something I notice while driving.
The horizontal field of view on the Aero is actually a little more restricted compared to the Index than what I had realized.
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Hello all, I decided to pull the trigger on the aero.. Cambria specs were sort of leaked and wont do anything for me. Pimax 12k seems like great value and good clarity (same PPD as varjo?) but too far in the future for me and not sure about the form factor (and 850g?)... only thing that may make me regret my purchase is a potential future g3 with same features as Areo for 1/3 of the price.
anyways, I'm currently use a G2 with a 3080ti... just ordered some steam vr base stations... anything else I should prepare in anticipation of receiving the aero?
anyways, I'm currently use a G2 with a 3080ti... just ordered some steam vr base stations... anything else I should prepare in anticipation of receiving the aero?
Thanks a lot for the images
This allows me to mentally prepare myself to the smaller FOV.
I did already try the Index with 5 notches to the front and although you notice it when initially, the smaller FOV kinda goes away when you are actually racing.
Have you noticed any "moving blur" like discussed on the Varjo discord ? Which imight be an issue of concern
(#trouble shooting MastahFR 31-03-2022)@airbusnerd The Aero is not that much lighter with 717gr.
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@HoiHman I did notice blurring when moving my head over a static image, and was wondering at first it if was something related to my current graphics settings, but it didn't seem to be. Can't say I ever noticed it in motion, while driving or flying.
When I noticed it over the desktop (where the image is the crispest, due to the use of foveated rendering) I first thought it was an artifact of the eye tracking not keeping up, but again, it didn't seem to be and is probably a property of the display tech.
Can't say yet that it's actually worse than on other headsets I have used. It may be more noticeable here because of the usually clearer image. Was planning to compare that to the Index today or tomorrow.
To be fair, the Aero isn't perfect and as usual, picking one headset over another brings compromises. After trying it briefly last night with roomscale games, I can already see games where I will prefer using the Index, due to its wider field of view and better comfort.
For Alyx, the Aero wins because the game truly benefits from the higher image clarity. For a game like horror rogue-like Cosmodread, I think I would stick to a wider FOV (for obvious reasons ), and a higher image resolution just highlights how low-res all the assets are. Also planning to revisit that one in the Index today to see if i still think that.
But for seated sim experiences (flight and driving), the Aero wins hands down.
---
BTW, putting the Index back on often reminds me of something else from years ago. After several years watching TV and playing games on a large plasma HDTV, I decided to try my Xbox 360 on an older 32" CRT I hadn't turned on for a while. It was a pretty good TV when I had bought it, and I had used it for years. My first reaction when turning on that TV was that it was broken. The low resolution, the flickering, the visible scan lines..... And then I remembered that's what good TV screens used to look like.
That's close to my reaction whenever I put the Index back on while running the FOV tests from my last post. Two weeks ago, I thought iRacing looked great in VR on the Index. Now I am shocked at what a blurry mess it is.
When I noticed it over the desktop (where the image is the crispest, due to the use of foveated rendering) I first thought it was an artifact of the eye tracking not keeping up, but again, it didn't seem to be and is probably a property of the display tech.
Can't say yet that it's actually worse than on other headsets I have used. It may be more noticeable here because of the usually clearer image. Was planning to compare that to the Index today or tomorrow.
To be fair, the Aero isn't perfect and as usual, picking one headset over another brings compromises. After trying it briefly last night with roomscale games, I can already see games where I will prefer using the Index, due to its wider field of view and better comfort.
For Alyx, the Aero wins because the game truly benefits from the higher image clarity. For a game like horror rogue-like Cosmodread, I think I would stick to a wider FOV (for obvious reasons
), and a higher image resolution just highlights how low-res all the assets are. Also planning to revisit that one in the Index today to see if i still think that.But for seated sim experiences (flight and driving), the Aero wins hands down.
---
BTW, putting the Index back on often reminds me of something else from years ago. After several years watching TV and playing games on a large plasma HDTV, I decided to try my Xbox 360 on an older 32" CRT I hadn't turned on for a while. It was a pretty good TV when I had bought it, and I had used it for years. My first reaction when turning on that TV was that it was broken. The low resolution, the flickering, the visible scan lines..... And then I remembered that's what good TV screens used to look like.
That's close to my reaction whenever I put the Index back on while running the FOV tests from my last post. Two weeks ago, I thought iRacing looked great in VR on the Index. Now I am shocked at what a blurry mess it is.
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Speaking of VR FOVs... Do we know what they are measuring when they say that VR headsets have FOVs between 90 and 115 degrees?
The max FOV on the Index is supposed to be over 115 degrees.
This is 115 degrees (horizontal) according to iRacing, in 2D. This was captured on an ultrawide flat display. All headsets show a lot more image vertically. I am talking strictly about horizontal FOV here.
This is the maximum horizontal FOV I can squeeze out my my index, while making my forehead hurt. iRacing calls this 92 degrees.
And on the Aero (which is supposed to have a 115 degree FOV btw), I see this much horizontally. iRacing calls this 80 degrees.
Where do Valve and Varjo get 115 degrees from? Do they add up the overlapping parts of the two eyes?
Another possibility of course, is that iRacing gets it wrong.
The max FOV on the Index is supposed to be over 115 degrees.
This is 115 degrees (horizontal) according to iRacing, in 2D. This was captured on an ultrawide flat display. All headsets show a lot more image vertically. I am talking strictly about horizontal FOV here.
This is the maximum horizontal FOV I can squeeze out my my index, while making my forehead hurt. iRacing calls this 92 degrees.
And on the Aero (which is supposed to have a 115 degree FOV btw), I see this much horizontally. iRacing calls this 80 degrees.
Where do Valve and Varjo get 115 degrees from? Do they add up the overlapping parts of the two eyes?
Another possibility of course, is that iRacing gets it wrong.
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I received my Varjo Aero 2 days ago. It's as sharp as everybody says.
On the default setting it is comparable with a 1080p monitor, but the FOV is small.
It's a true edge to edge sharpness for about 95% of the screen. No distortion issues for me. AC / DR2 and AMS2 are unbelievable crisp. No issues at all with EMI because i had the cable looped through 5 big ferrite cores. Build quality is great, It's light, no audio solution is a plus for me since i use Sony NC headphones, lot's of adjust-ability options.
But..... i'm sending it back
My main issue is comfort. I just can't see to find a comfortable position. Could be the shape of my face ??
When it's comfortable for me, the eye tracking of the HMD tells me to move it further down. Then it's too close to my nose. When it is comfortable it moves too much due to the SFX movement. I can tighten until it does not move, but at the cost of comfort. Compared to my Index, it just has too much relative hard pressure points on my face. This was an unpleasant supprise because with all the adjust ability options i did not expect this.
My 2nd issue is that there's a noticeable motion blur when you move your head left/right up/down even when your are at 90fps. I immediately noticed this in the Varjo home environment and i have seen others complaining about this on the Varjo Discord channel.
3rd is performance : A RTX3090 is not enough for a steady 90fps at the default settings in race games i play the most. The Aero does not support reprojection. I played a bit the various performance settings and managed to get 90fps when lowering the resolution and even then it's still sharp, but kind losing it's magic.
At a € 2400,- price tag, it needs to be perfect. I need to be "wowed" and i was regarding the image quality. Comfort, motion blur were my main issues, performance issues were expected and helped making the decision fast to return it although it was not a deciding factor.
For a € 2400 price tag i got glimp into the future of VR and it's awesome.
There were other relative smaller issues that i was willing to overcome easily to keep it. Just having a quick glance under the HMD at my dashboard on my rig was not possible anymore. You need to unscrew the back if you want to slightly move the HMD up to look underneath. Very annoying.
The FOV was significant smaller coming from the Index, but when you are in the car and focused at the road in front, that kind of disappears. I was prepared to sacrifice FOV for image quality.
Like with the previous VR headsets i tried, it took be about an hour to make the decision that it's going back. No need to drag this on any further. Too bad i was really looking forward to keeping this. High-end VR is the final missing piece on my race simulator.
A final note about the performance.
For me personally a steady 90 FPS is very important. When racing, i prefer a less sharp but smooth 90fps in the Index over a 70-90fps up and down jumping fps in the Varjo Aero with clearer vision. I'm very sensitive to frame drops below 90 fps.
Without lowering below the default settings, keeping the Varjo Aero would to lead to invest in an RTX 4090 in a couple of months. This means that in the end it will probably be a 5k invest in total.
5K for tech that is evolving so fast that it will probably be outdated in 1-1,5 years from now.
The next day i went back to Index. Image is significantly more blurry, but in AMS2, it's still pretty good, better than i expected it to be. So i'm glad that having a brief look into the future of VR did not ruin the experience in the Index yet.
So what's next ?
Hopefully a Index 2 announcement soon
I won't be ordering a Pimax 12K since that HMD just looks too bulky to even work properly with motion and it will need a RTX 6090 or something to run properly.
On the default setting it is comparable with a 1080p monitor, but the FOV is small.
It's a true edge to edge sharpness for about 95% of the screen. No distortion issues for me. AC / DR2 and AMS2 are unbelievable crisp. No issues at all with EMI because i had the cable looped through 5 big ferrite cores. Build quality is great, It's light, no audio solution is a plus for me since i use Sony NC headphones, lot's of adjust-ability options.
But..... i'm sending it back
My main issue is comfort. I just can't see to find a comfortable position. Could be the shape of my face ??
When it's comfortable for me, the eye tracking of the HMD tells me to move it further down. Then it's too close to my nose. When it is comfortable it moves too much due to the SFX movement. I can tighten until it does not move, but at the cost of comfort. Compared to my Index, it just has too much relative hard pressure points on my face. This was an unpleasant supprise because with all the adjust ability options i did not expect this.
My 2nd issue is that there's a noticeable motion blur when you move your head left/right up/down even when your are at 90fps. I immediately noticed this in the Varjo home environment and i have seen others complaining about this on the Varjo Discord channel.
3rd is performance : A RTX3090 is not enough for a steady 90fps at the default settings in race games i play the most. The Aero does not support reprojection. I played a bit the various performance settings and managed to get 90fps when lowering the resolution and even then it's still sharp, but kind losing it's magic.
At a € 2400,- price tag, it needs to be perfect. I need to be "wowed" and i was regarding the image quality. Comfort, motion blur were my main issues, performance issues were expected and helped making the decision fast to return it although it was not a deciding factor.
For a € 2400 price tag i got glimp into the future of VR and it's awesome.
There were other relative smaller issues that i was willing to overcome easily to keep it. Just having a quick glance under the HMD at my dashboard on my rig was not possible anymore. You need to unscrew the back if you want to slightly move the HMD up to look underneath. Very annoying.
The FOV was significant smaller coming from the Index, but when you are in the car and focused at the road in front, that kind of disappears. I was prepared to sacrifice FOV for image quality.
Like with the previous VR headsets i tried, it took be about an hour to make the decision that it's going back. No need to drag this on any further. Too bad i was really looking forward to keeping this. High-end VR is the final missing piece on my race simulator.
A final note about the performance.
For me personally a steady 90 FPS is very important. When racing, i prefer a less sharp but smooth 90fps in the Index over a 70-90fps up and down jumping fps in the Varjo Aero with clearer vision. I'm very sensitive to frame drops below 90 fps.
Without lowering below the default settings, keeping the Varjo Aero would to lead to invest in an RTX 4090 in a couple of months. This means that in the end it will probably be a 5k invest in total.
5K for tech that is evolving so fast that it will probably be outdated in 1-1,5 years from now.
The next day i went back to Index. Image is significantly more blurry, but in AMS2, it's still pretty good, better than i expected it to be. So i'm glad that having a brief look into the future of VR did not ruin the experience in the Index yet.
So what's next ?
Hopefully a Index 2 announcement soon
I won't be ordering a Pimax 12K since that HMD just looks too bulky to even work properly with motion and it will need a RTX 6090 or something to run properly.
I also send my Varjo Aero back for mostly the same reasons as you described here. But also 3 other reasons: I want to add that the chromatic aberration+red shift were really terrible for me. And the worst thing of all was that it's impossible to use the Aero in an easy way with multiple people, because of the lens/headstrap. You have to adjust ALL knobs for 10-15 minutes to change it for each headshape VERY precisely to get it right + the manual IPD adjustments because with auto-IPD I had way to many chromatic aberration. The third point that made me return the Aero was the insanely bad stereo overlap(Aero has the worst overlap of all, BY FAR, with only 69). I could see a black spot between my eyes, this while with the G2, I don't see a black spot between my eyes at all. With my ipd(68)/headshape the FoV was also way better of my G2+FoV mod.
I don't have much trust in Pimax tbh, but I won't judge the Crystal and 12K before it's released based on it's look and company history. I have hopes that it will be good so I will test one too. Otherwise the Aero 2 with indeed an improved headstrap and an improved lens design+oled panels would be awesome. So the future is bright for VR. I'm not so sure if there will be an Index 2, but if so; then that will be impressive for sure too.
I don't have much trust in Pimax tbh, but I won't judge the Crystal and 12K before it's released based on it's look and company history. I have hopes that it will be good so I will test one too. Otherwise the Aero 2 with indeed an improved headstrap and an improved lens design+oled panels would be awesome. So the future is bright for VR. I'm not so sure if there will be an Index 2, but if so; then that will be impressive for sure too.
Hi, I don’t suppose you have your settings for Automobalista 2?
I to have a Varjo Areo but am struggling to get decent fps, I have a rtx 3080 ti and have great results with assetto corsa and iracing..
Would be great if you could help me as like you this is my favourite sim title.
Thanks.
Mark.
RCHeliguy
Premium
Are you on the Varjo Discord server?
They have people tweaking these settings all the time and showing the latest greatest best settings to get the most out of each title.
RCHeliguy
Premium
FWIW as an update, the software continues to improve.
The Chromatic Aberration issue has been resolved with software.
Varjo has released their predictive motion smoothing which is equivalent to reprojection. They have both a 2:1 and 3:1 reprojection. So you lock to 45fps or 30fps and it sends 90fps to the headset.
With the 4090, iRacing can be run at 90fs at 35ppd without reprojection with a full grid of cars. Other titles may work better with motion smoothing.
My take is that before the 4090 and recent software updates, the Aero wasn't quite ready for sims.
Ergonomics are personal. I find the Aero to be the most comfortable headset I've worn. I also considered the Index very comfortable and I remember @HoiHman had to modify that headset to feel right.
It really is sharp and clear at 35ppd and if you can get that in the titles you care about, it is a pretty incredible view.
The FOV seems to vary by facial structure. I'm getting about 85 degrees vertical and 105 or so horizontally which is less than I got from my Index. I miss the vertical mostly in room scale games.
I find that I typically lose myself in the detail and manage not to be put off by the FOV, but it is smaller and I would be happy to have more.
I actually do miss the Index's off ear speakers, but I've adapted to my IEMs with boom mic. There was definitely a learning curve. I've never used IEM's before. I use my surround sound system when I have guests.
I am still waiting for the next Index and don't consider the Aero an end game headset, but I am enjoying it.
It is still running at the limits of a top CPU/4090 and will do better when more power is available.
The Chromatic Aberration issue has been resolved with software.
Varjo has released their predictive motion smoothing which is equivalent to reprojection. They have both a 2:1 and 3:1 reprojection. So you lock to 45fps or 30fps and it sends 90fps to the headset.
With the 4090, iRacing can be run at 90fs at 35ppd without reprojection with a full grid of cars. Other titles may work better with motion smoothing.
My take is that before the 4090 and recent software updates, the Aero wasn't quite ready for sims.
Ergonomics are personal. I find the Aero to be the most comfortable headset I've worn. I also considered the Index very comfortable and I remember @HoiHman had to modify that headset to feel right.
It really is sharp and clear at 35ppd and if you can get that in the titles you care about, it is a pretty incredible view.
The FOV seems to vary by facial structure. I'm getting about 85 degrees vertical and 105 or so horizontally which is less than I got from my Index. I miss the vertical mostly in room scale games.
I find that I typically lose myself in the detail and manage not to be put off by the FOV, but it is smaller and I would be happy to have more.
I actually do miss the Index's off ear speakers, but I've adapted to my IEMs with boom mic. There was definitely a learning curve. I've never used IEM's before. I use my surround sound system when I have guests.
I am still waiting for the next Index and don't consider the Aero an end game headset, but I am enjoying it.
It is still running at the limits of a top CPU/4090 and will do better when more power is available.
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Yeah, I cannot see how you could compare the two to be honest. I have the G1 and the PSVR2, and they are comparable in visuals, so I would put it in the same tier as the Q2 and G2 based on my experience with those as well. I avoided the hype around it so it met my expectations, but I think some people got a bit carried away as usual. I consider it a decent headset for the price, but it doesn't really punch much above it's weight visually.
