Vanilla Balance Mod Beta - Testers Wanted

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This mod has now been released. All the changes are listed in the above link. If a Forum Admin is reading this, if you could remove the "Testers Wanted" and change it to "Development Discussion" thread, it would be appreciated.

UPDATED TO WORK WITH 1.3

Note: In attempts to fix the interviews and dilemmas, I have temporarily removed all non English languages from those two files. I hope to reinsert them into a later version (but when I do, they'll still be the vanilla text as I am unable to translate in any other language).

 
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After lots of Partial Testing, I have just sat through over the last couple of nights and done a full season with Predator. I think I am very happy with the current state of the mod, as the outcomes I got from this particular season pleased me greatly.

This is using the latest version of the mod, plus the '+5 Days per part development' injector, to increase difficulty. Thankfully, it did not go well!

I've logged a lot of the main outcomes in this google doc. It's nice to see how Rod struggles now, and isn't an 'instant' win forumla by himself.
I'm going to start packing up the files and look to upload this mod ready for Thursday.
 
i dont know if its possible but i would like to have your changes being implemented in enzolis MOD. this way we all could start a long term save and test his & your MOD at the same time without switching. hope you will work together cause once the work both of you did is released i want to play the game and stick to one save. keep up the good work!
 
After lots of Partial Testing, I have just sat through over the last couple of nights and done a full season with Predator. I think I am very happy with the current state of the mod, as the outcomes I got from this particular season pleased me greatly.

This is using the latest version of the mod, plus the '+5 Days per part development' injector, to increase difficulty. Thankfully, it did not go well!

I've logged a lot of the main outcomes in this google doc. It's nice to see how Rod struggles now, and isn't an 'instant' win forumla by himself.


I'm going to start packing up the files and look to upload this mod ready for Thursday.

Great work! Looks very promising. Have you managed to solve the problem of Rod/OP drivers in general or just gimped the players' car that it doesn't let the driver push it way above where it should be?

Really looking forward to trying this out though, I think a eventually a combination of balance mod with enzoli's would be the best of the best for this game. :D
 
i dont know if its possible but i would like to have your changes being implemented in enzolis MOD. this way we all could start a long term save and test his & your MOD at the same time without switching. hope you will work together cause once the work both of you did is released i want to play the game and stick to one save. keep up the good work!

I've added all the text files I've changed, so if anyone wants to manually add / merge my changes with theirs - it's as simple as importing my texts to the asset files. The most complex it will be, is they would have to compare any files we've both modified and manually combine our changes.

Enzolis mid, I assume he could just import everything other then the Championship / Part Suppliers texts. But actually, my mod will work without those two files well enough.

Great work! Looks very promising. Have you managed to solve the problem of Rod/OP drivers in general or just gimped the players' car that it doesn't let the driver push it way above where it should be?

Really looking forward to trying this out though, I think a eventually a combination of balance mod with enzoli's would be the best of the best for this game. :D

In terms of Rod/Pushung - please read the first few posts where I go into depth of the changes. And then read the google doc link, where I detail a predator season while using rod from race 3 onwards. Those answer your questions.
 
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Congrats on getting the thing released. I'll try it out over the next week. I've been following your development and you seem pretty eager to make sure Rodrigues struggles in an inferior car.

I'm curious what that means for drivers that aren't Rodrigues. What if you keep your starting lineup instead? Is it possible to win in ERS with them, or is the only viable way to start in ERS/APS to hire Rodrigues now, because all other drivers will struggle even harder than he does?
 
Congrats on getting the thing released. I'll try it out over the next week. I've been following your development and you seem pretty eager to make sure Rodrigues struggles in an inferior car.

I'm curious what that means for drivers that aren't Rodrigues. What if you keep your starting lineup instead? Is it possible to win in ERS with them, or is the only viable way to start in ERS/APS to hire Rodrigues now, because all other drivers will struggle even harder than he does?

The idea is: You're going to struggle no matter what drivers you have, if your car is seriously inferior to the others. The only way to really progress now, is severly investing in the car. Which is different to the current system where you just need a not-aweful car and a fast driver to win.

You'll notice in my google doc, that Evans and Santa Ana had no chance against Valdes, who was both a superior driver and had a better car then my predator. Rodrigues was able to go toe-to-toe with Valdes regulary as he was an even better driver, and could make up the gap even with a worst car.

But Rodrigues couldn't reliably compete with the Archer Team, who had a slightly better car still, and drivers which were not as good. If you had Evans and Santa still, they certainly wouldn't be able to get close, as they'd need a better car in order to bridge that speed gap.

This is what I wanted though. If you have the 10th best car, at best, you should be only competing with the two cars directly ahead of you. It's like putting an Alonso in a Mclaren - no good against better cars despite being world champion material. The car is now the most important thing (I may need to rebalance this once the blue flags are sorted, as backmarkers are hindered by the blue flags a lot, so there's a natural spread which may not exist in the future. ).

So to sum up - Rodrigues won't win you the championship anymore. Having a 'top three car' will.
 
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just tested the injectors. they do work, but sometimes you may need 2 or more tries to get it activated. do i only have to activate it once or do i have to repeat the procedure all over again as soon as i develop a new part? nice addition!!! this will be some great challange to move up the tiers... ;) i saw you also placed all txt. files inside the folder. im a amateur when it comes to modding, i would rather wait for enzo to import your txt.files or maybe you could upload his mod with your files included once he's finished with his work.
i will test your file the next days, hopefully as a package consisting of your and enzo's work. to test it properly i will have to finish at least 10 seasons...
 
just tested the injectors. they do work, but sometimes you may need 2 or more tries to get it activated. do i only have to activate it once or do i have to repeat the procedure all over again as soon as i develop a new part?

I notice that its very system dependant. Even I have to sometime do two or three attempts to make it 'attach to the game' correctly. Crashed talked about updating the injector process itself (I am merely modifying what it changes) so if he updates it, I'll update my files too (which is why I have them in a separate Part to the asset files)

Technically, you only need to ever use the file ONCE, and it will always keep your current "+X Days". (I don't know if some of the other items e.g., less scrutineering chance gets unloaded if the thing stops working - which is why i suggest you keep it going once through game restart).

But you do NOT have to repeat the procedure when you want to develop a new part. All you have to do is run it once again if you close the game and start it back up (for consistency).

nice addition!!! this will be some great challange to move up the tiers... ;) i saw you also placed all txt. files inside the folder. im a amateur when it comes to modding, i would rather wait for enzo to import your txt.files or maybe you could upload his mod with your files included once he's finished with his work.
i will test your file the next days, hopefully as a package consisting of your and enzo's work. to test it properly i will have to finish at least 10 seasons...

It's probably best if he has a look at the files and makes sure my features fit with the vision he has for his mod. If it is, he should be able to load them with little issue. I'll let him do it, as he knows which files he already has modified, and will see conflicts better then I will.
 
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flamingred can you tell me which programm did you use to import & export the data. in case enzoli will not implement your changes into his mod i would at least try to do it myself. i already downloaded an unity assets bundle extractor and opened your assets.file + exported the AISessionOrders text.file as an example but the structure of the text.file looked a bit different than yours. i thought i could just copy and paste the text... do i have to use a specific programm? or did you restructure the files on your own?

i guess enzoli will release his file today and i would like to finally start my save and enjoy his work & further test your file.
 
Love the importance of car performance.

Have you considered trying to remove the promotion/relegation system? I feel like it would place more of an emphasis on our career as a team principal.

Something else, it might be just me, but I feel like there isn't much difference in the duration of each tyre on the vanilla version, e.g. I could run the soft tyres for 12 laps and then only run the medium tyres for 15 laps.

Don't know if they would be something you would be interested in doing, just wondering is all.
 
i think now i know how it works. load the asset file -> Plugins -> Export.txt. copy and paste from your text files into the exported ones -> save them & Plugins + Import.txt. right???

You don't need to export my text files from my mod. I have already provided you my modified files. All you need to do is import them into another mod.

Beware though, you may be overwriting changes that other modders have made (e.g., I am sure he change WMC to F1 in championships.

Love the importance of car performance.

Have you considered trying to remove the promotion/relegation system? I feel like it would place more of an emphasis on our career as a team principal.

Something else, it might be just me, but I feel like there isn't much difference in the duration of each tyre on the vanilla version, e.g. I could run the soft tyres for 12 laps and then only run the medium tyres for 15 laps.

Don't know if they would be something you would be interested in doing, just wondering is all.

1/ I think there is a stat which I can change with the injector - as there is a 'chance to accept promotion = 85 (%). I can make it that so long as the injector is running, to change that value to 0. This is only for the AI though, so you would have to manually decline.

But if you're going to have to manually decline, does it matter if the AI move up and down?

Or, I could probably change the message sent to the player about being promoted (I assume it's in the assets, not seen it - but then I haven't been looking for it) so that there is two reject options. This may only be for the player though, so it maybe a case of doing both, if possible.

Anyway, Modifying non simple things with the injector takes me weeks, you will see my struggles on the modding tips, tricks and resources thread. If I make an option (key word - I assume lots of people wouldn't like this feature) it won't happen anytime soon.

But then, do we really need It?

Look at how slow we can make progression. Depending on the difficulty and your starting car, you can make it so hard you only progress at most by getting your car better then only one opposition per season. Look at mi google doc where I came near last in the last three races with Predator, finishing last in the championship with a Rod as my driver. My gearbox and suspension where now better then ZRT, but that was all. It's going to take me several seasons to get promoted. So either I 1. Get them so far then try other teams, or 2. Love them and stick with them forever even though it may take 20 seasons to promote them to WMC (or until I get fired).

The biggest problem is, you get too readily accepted into higher teams (join not Farrari from predator in season 2). i think they base it on the player personal stats. I could try to counter this by trying to inject a starting stat of 1, not 10. This aspect is one I'll look into sooner - as it may make Manager Progression harder - as you may be restricted to tier 3 teams until you reach a stat threshold (assuming you like to move teams - which is a mechanic I do like. In my mod, you do run greater risks of being fired, as achieving your 'chairman requested position' is harder and Driver Personality Traits can now give -20s or more to chairman relationship. ) I think this avenue may get my attention first.

2/ Tire Duration.

I didn't change the tire life of each tire compared to each other. This is somewhat if a mess as any small changes may have big effects because I have already change the facts (a) the better tyre wear chassis already get +x laps tyre life over the worst chassis, and that (b) driver smoothness increases tyre life further still.

At one point, I had comtemplated making all tires 'identical'. As the AI often run hard compounds in a short (rule) Milan race with 40> fuel tanks. So even the unsmothness driver can two stop on softs, yet the AI use mediums which are so much slower.

I didn't have to make them equal in the end, I closed the gap between tyres so it was less of a factor.

Tires are something I will contuinslly look at though, I assume the next patch will have a number of balance changes of the developmers own. So I intend my mod will evolve with theirs.
 
do i have to rename your files before importing them. right now all your files are as follows mAISessions...
mBuildings...
m... should it be AISessions without the "m"?

It doesn't matter what the text file is called, all that matters is what's inside the text file. I could name them anything, so long as I put them in the right txt asset. I simply denoted them all with a little 'm' so I didn't get confused with the original files and the 'm'odded file.
 
1/ I think there is a stat which I can change with the injector - as there is a 'chance to accept promotion = 85 (%). I can make it that so long as the injector is running, to change that value to 0. This is only for the AI though, so you would have to manually decline.

But if you're going to have to manually decline, does it matter if the AI move up and down?

Or, I could probably change the message sent to the player about being promoted (I assume it's in the assets, not seen it - but then I haven't been looking for it) so that there is two reject options. This may only be for the player though, so it maybe a case of doing both, if possible.

Anyway, Modifying non simple things with the injector takes me weeks, you will see my struggles on the modding tips, tricks and resources thread. If I make an option (key word - I assume lots of people wouldn't like this feature) it won't happen anytime soon.

But then, do we really need It?

Look at how slow we can make progression. Depending on the difficulty and your starting car, you can make it so hard you only progress at most by getting your car better then only one opposition per season. Look at mi google doc where I came near last in the last three races with Predator, finishing last in the championship with a Rod as my driver. My gearbox and suspension where now better then ZRT, but that was all. It's going to take me several seasons to get promoted. So either I 1. Get them so far then try other teams, or 2. Love them and stick with them forever even though it may take 20 seasons to promote them to WMC (or until I get fired).

The biggest problem is, you get too readily accepted into higher teams (join not Farrari from predator in season 2). i think they base it on the player personal stats. I could try to counter this by trying to inject a starting stat of 1, not 10. This aspect is one I'll look into sooner - as it may make Manager Progression harder - as you may be restricted to tier 3 teams until you reach a stat threshold (assuming you like to move teams - which is a mechanic I do like. In my mod, you do run greater risks of being fired, as achieving your 'chairman requested position' is harder and Driver Personality Traits can now give -20s or more to chairman relationship. ) I think this avenue may get my attention first.

2/ Tire Duration.

I didn't change the tire life of each tire compared to each other. This is somewhat if a mess as any small changes may have big effects because I have already change the facts (a) the better tyre wear chassis already get +x laps tyre life over the worst chassis, and that (b) driver smoothness increases tyre life further still.

At one point, I had comtemplated making all tires 'identical'. As the AI often run hard compounds in a short (rule) Milan race with 40> fuel tanks. So even the unsmothness driver can two stop on softs, yet the AI use mediums which are so much slower.

I didn't have to make them equal in the end, I closed the gap between tyres so it was less of a factor.

Tires are something I will contuinslly look at though, I assume the next patch will have a number of balance changes of the developmers own. So I intend my mod will evolve with theirs.
Thank you for considering what I said. Just thought I'd see your opinion, and anyone elses opinion actually, on some features I'd like to see in the game.

The reason I mentioned removing the promotion/relegation system is that, like others, I'm hoping to play both yours and enzoli's mods together at some point and feel it would add to the realism, however, I understand your aim is not to create a mod that is realistic, just more logical, which I appreciate. I think making our starting stats 1 instead of 10 would be a good idea.

As for tyres, I quite like that you have closed the gap in performance between each tyre. Only thing is, wouldn't you still benefit slightly from going soft - soft - soft, than soft - medium - soft? That's why I suggested creating a bigger gap in terms of duration as then you could have multiple options by doing soft - soft - soft, or just soft - medium, creating a bit more variability. You will have more knowledge than me on this though.
 
Thank you for considering what I said. Just thought I'd see your opinion, and anyone elses opinion actually, on some features I'd like to see in the game.

The reason I mentioned removing the promotion/relegation system is that, like others, I'm hoping to play both yours and enzoli's mods together at some point and feel it would add to the realism, however, I understand your aim is not to create a mod that is realistic, just more logical, which I appreciate. I think making our starting stats 1 instead of 10 would be a good idea.

As for tyres, I quite like that you have closed the gap in performance between each tyre. Only thing is, wouldn't you still benefit slightly from going soft - soft - soft, than soft - medium - soft? That's why I suggested creating a bigger gap in terms of duration as then you could have multiple options by doing soft - soft - soft, or just soft - medium, creating a bit more variability. You will have more knowledge than me on this though.

1/ ah, in which case changing the injector stat would be what you are after to prevent the AI from promoting (assuming the player chooses not to promote). If it's an easy variable, I'll release it as an option (I.e., press f5 to prevent AI promotions) after the final race of the season.

If it's a hard variable to change (adding the +X days took me two weeks just for that) then I'll include it at some point, if I can work it out someday. (I am still struggling to prevent mechanics relationship growing so quickly).

2/ yes, the player will still benefit from soft soft soft. But it is no longer as much, and the 'performance gaps' I've made should nullify it further when you compare yourself to a stronger car, so it's less abusive (admittedly, worse cars then you will be even further behind you - but that's what happened in the ordinary Verision anyway.

Soft - medium may well already be possible with the AI in a short (rule) race and the best chassis and smooth driver... however of course, if your fuel tank rule is at 40%, you cannot one stop anyway, making the proposed idea moot as in that instance, they're still at a disadvantage.

The developers are working on balance changes too, this maybe something they look at. AISessions.txt tells the AI when to pit, but doesn't tell the AI which tires to pit to. That's done internally and I cannot change that complex aspect of the game (if I quit my day job and worked on this full time I might - anyone want to pay me a few hundred a week? :p)

But now that it's come to my attention, I do like the idea of starting with a 1,1,1 stat character too. I'll see if I can get it working.
 
Enzolis mid, I assume he could just import everything other then the Championship / Part Suppliers texts.
Provided that Enzoli has renamed Steinmann to Mercedes, Rossini to Ferrari etc.

Would it be as simple as, for example, renaming Steinmann to Mercedes, Rossini to Ferrari, and so on, manually on your Part Suppliers text file and then importing into Enzoli's resources.assets?

Same goes for renaming World Motorsport Championship to Formula 1 etc. on your Championships text file?
 
Provided that Enzoli has renamed Steinmann to Mercedes, Rossini to Ferrari etc.

Would it be as simple as, for example, renaming Steinmann to Mercedes, Rossini to Ferrari, and so on, manually on your Part Suppliers text file and then importing into Enzoli's resources.assets?

Same goes for renaming World Motorsport Championship to Formula 1 etc. on your Championships text file?

Probably. I don't know what he has / hasn't modified.

The best way to check, is to download his mod, extract the text files that may conflict, and compare them to both the Original Vanilla Files (to see what he has changed) and to My files (to see what I have changed). Then to merge changes based on your findings. If you're going to do this, there's a plugin for notepad++ which you can download which allows you to directly compare.

For the two above files I mentioned (Suppliers and Championship), the changes I made aren't very big, and my mod could easily survive without those two files active (I feel they give a little flavour but that's all).

Of course, Enzoli has already expressed interest in a merge, if I read that correctly. I would assume he would get around to doing this eventually anyway.
 
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