Vanilla Balance Mod Beta - Testers Wanted

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This mod has now been released. All the changes are listed in the above link. If a Forum Admin is reading this, if you could remove the "Testers Wanted" and change it to "Development Discussion" thread, it would be appreciated.

UPDATED TO WORK WITH 1.3

Note: In attempts to fix the interviews and dilemmas, I have temporarily removed all non English languages from those two files. I hope to reinsert them into a later version (but when I do, they'll still be the vanilla text as I am unable to translate in any other language).

 
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That's hard.

If I changed the cost or the fuel,type,engine,wear in part suppliers the game did not started.

So I would decrease the cost or increased the chassis values but not possible to run the game.
 
That's hard.

If I changed the cost or the fuel,type,engine,wear in part suppliers the game did not started.

So I would decrease the cost or increased the chassis values but not possible to run the game.

You should be able to increase the costs and the numbers to some degreee. Can't see why it would cause a crash. Check your file and try importing it again.

So, I had a look at a couple of teams from my vanilla run, and looked at Octane and Ozu. Octane had a sub one star chassis, and Ozu, who had been demoted to ERS last year and was thus given their chassis (from what I gather, never been demoted), had a just over 1 star chassis. Seems to be a vailla thing, but then I can't understand why every other car on the grid were destroying their tyres. I'll do some more thorough testing.

EDIT: Every tyre compound that I use this season are lasting twice as long as the AI's for some reason...they even started using part used inters because they ran out. Going to get all the vanilla stuff back, run through a preseason and check what happens in vanilla

Frankly, I have no idea what the hell is going on.

I have a potential lead.... One of the sections of tyre wear is split into 3 sections.: Short, Medium and Long game lengths. Now I, have been assuming that these where the balancing for choosing the Options for "Short, Medium and Long Sessions". That seemed perfectly logical to me... but looking more into it, I think these sections actually refer to the Rule: 'Race Length'.

Which means I have completely imbalanced tyre wear. I play "Long Race Session Lengths" all the time, so for most of my testing in ERS, I believed was taking my "LONG SESSIONS" change into account... but in reality, it was only looking at "SHORT SESSIONS". As such, I have completely broken Long Races (WDC by default - but I didn't do as much testing in WDC - it was more important that tyre life is not too short. It matters less if tyre life was too long).

I'm rebalancing it, testing it and if I've fixed the issue, I'll reupload the asset.

As a side note: It must mean the Option: Session Length is completely scaled to proportions.


Edit::: This doesn't appear to be the case... I changed long sessions to be +10/-10 and now the change is massive, even in ERS. The file works as I initially intended... Ignore this post. I have another thoery - but will test it first...
 
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You should be able to increase the costs and the numbers to some degreee. Can't see why it would cause a crash. Check your file and try importing it again.



I have a potential lead.... One of the sections of tyre wear is split into 3 sections.: Short, Medium and Long game lengths. Now I, have been assuming that these where the balancing for choosing the Options for "Short, Medium and Long Sessions". That seemed perfectly logical to me... but looking more into it, I think these sections actually refer to the Rule: 'Race Length'.

Which means I have completely imbalanced tyre wear. I play "Long Race Session Lengths" all the time, so for most of my testing in ERS, I believed was taking my "LONG SESSIONS" change into account... but in reality, it was only looking at "SHORT SESSIONS". As such, I have completely broken Long Races (WDC by default - but I didn't do as much testing in WDC - it was more important that tyre life is not too short. It matters less if tyre life was too long).

I'm rebalancing it, testing it and if I've fixed the issue, I'll reupload the asset.

As a side note: It must mean the Option: Session Length is completely scaled to proportions.

That is drawn from the singleseaterdata text file. It has changes to driving styles, engine modes, and tyres broken down by length of session. I made some changes for my games because i was tired of watching the AI run around on tyres that were under 10% like they were new, especially if they were the harder compound. There are also performance penalties based on car setup and some tier system they have based on rank of the car setup.
 
That is drawn from the singleseaterdata text file. It has changes to driving styles, engine modes, and tyres broken down by length of session. I made some changes for my games because i was tired of watching the AI run around on tyres that were under 10% like they were new, especially if they were the harder compound. There are also performance penalties based on car setup and some tier system they have based on rank of the car setup.

....

I am quite aware of its existance, I changed it a lot as part of the mod.
The issue is that a user has suddenly, after a few seasons, now sees a considerable change in tyre wear in comparison to the opposition.

I'm currently uploading 1.2f
It has the Tyre Wear rates reduced to Vanilla.
I have also included the new 'Only 1 Scout Slot' in the assembly part too.
 
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....

I am quite aware of its existance, I changed it a lot as part of the mod.
The issue is that a user has suddenly, after a few seasons, now sees a considerable change in tyre wear in comparison to the opposition.

I'm currently uploading 1.2f
It has the Tyre Wear rates reduced to Vanilla.
I have also included the new 'Only 1 Scout Slot' in the assembly part too.

Got it. I thought you might. Just trying to help with my limited bit of knowledge.

Good work so far. Your insight has been helpful to the few changes I have made here and there.
 
Hi FlamingRed!

I've just installed your mod, because I love your ideas for the game.

Sadly, I ran into a pretty large bug almost right away

I'm at Chariot and developing any new part with an average +20 component results in +120 performance and +50% red zone instead of the intended +20 and +5%. There must be a typo somewhere in the code.

I quickly started another game with Kitano to check if was just a Chariot or a Jenny Whitehouse problem, but the same thing happened again. Except it didn't affect all parts. The +20 components on the gearbox and brakes worked just fine.

I'm a little surprised nobody else has had this problem. Hope I haven't bungled the installation somehow. The instructions in the ReadMe seemed clear, but I'm pretty sure that unzipping part 2 just resulted in part 1 being overwritten. Maybe that's my problem?

Anyway, I hope you can help me fix this.
 
Hi FlamingRed!

I've just installed your mod, because I love your ideas for the game.

Sadly, I ran into a pretty large bug almost right away

I'm at Chariot and developing any new part with an average +20 component results in +120 performance and +50% red zone instead of the intended +20 and +5%. There must be a typo somewhere in the code.

I quickly started another game with Kitano to check if was just a Chariot or a Jenny Whitehouse problem, but the same thing happened again. Except it didn't affect all parts. The +20 components on the gearbox and brakes worked just fine.

I'm a little surprised nobody else has had this problem. Hope I haven't bungled the installation somehow. The instructions in the ReadMe seemed clear, but I'm pretty sure that unzipping part 2 just resulted in part 1 being overwritten. Maybe that's my problem?

Anyway, I hope you can help me fix this.

Ba-Humbug! Looks like the test component I accidentally left in 1.2e (unfixed) has now made its way into 1.2f. Another upload coming :p

It's the same issue we had in post #148 #149. No biggy. Hang tight and I'll get 1.2f Fixed uploaded. Should take about an hour or two.
 
Hi Flaming
i open the ilspy, do u know where can i Change the qualy mini game.

i mean if i have perfect = my car is f.e. 0,4 sec faster as f.e only a good?

You close IlSpy and Open SingleSeaterDesignData from the assets and change the values <MaxTemperatureOptimisationTimeCost>X</MaxTemperatureOptimisationTimeCost> In each of the three race length settings.

NEWS ALERT
I now need data: Now we've moved away from the +x Days system, how is everyone doing for money? I have a new way to balance money which effects the player and not the AI. This can be done by editing the Cost per developed upgrade for either the Player, or the AI. So my choices are:

  1. Keep the costs identical for the player - but give the AI a Lovely Reduction in development costs so they can (a) developing more parts for less money and (b) use the money they're not spending on parts on other things (such as hiring drivers and then immediatly firing them.... Yes, the AI is still stupid but at least they have money to burn now).
  2. Increase the costs for the player for each part desgined by a flat percentage,
  3. Increase the costs for the player for each part and increase them based on the tier the player is in (I.e., WMC could see the prices doubled, trippled due to the prize money available).
  4. Combine (1) with either (2) or (3).
I am thinking definitely (1) but (2-4) are open for debate based on how we're finding the money situation. If 2-4 could be balanced further by increasing the prize money back to default values (I reduced them in earlier versions so that I could limit the money available to the player - but this new method would make that old method redundant).

So - Lay out your financial experiences and happily debate while I test the new feature for the next several days.
 
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hi flaming thx for the Qualy - now its more important to have a perfect qualy run.

i changed in ressource "parts" cost - Motor in Tier 1 4mio but the ai must also cash 4 mio.

in which file would u like to Change Point 1? How do u give the AI a Bonus and not the Player!

i also Change in part components the aggressive and passiv whigthness. Now the AI improved very well.
What i changed too is the by all "average" part i give -25 max reli and -10 red Zone.
Because the Ai increased to 100% Reli and waste time (85% is enough)
-10 red Zone is for the next year part, because the ai have Problem to fix the reli in the first 2-3 races.
i also low the designer to 8-14-22-32.

The only Problem is - u know - the Money for the Chassis or how the AI choose the Chassis!
 
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i changed in ressource "parts" cost - Motor in Tier 1 4mio but the ai must also cash 4 mio.

in which file would u like to Change Point 1? How do u give the AI a Bonus and not the Player!

I modified the Assembly in CarPartDesign (it has the same "+X Days" section of code in it which I first modified by changing a simple number elsewhere. This same section does everything inside it on a team by team basis, and already has provisions for the "IF this is the player's team, then -1 Days Development". In the early day of modding the game, I was only able to change that -1 to say, +5. Things have moved on since then.

I have simply re-purposed the code now to to two other functions the file has. Its here where it "Find the highest part performance and set it to be the BASE STAT end of the season", and I added "IF this is the player team, then -5% to BASE STAT, otherwise (for the AI) +25". I have now been able to take the section which does "Get the cost of the Part you're developing" and I added "If this is the player team, then *2, otherwise (for the AI) *0.5"

CarPartDesign is the only place I'm having any luck with applying these changes - because it's one of the few places that it naturally does thing on a team - by - team basis, allowing me to apply an exception to the rule if the player has a team.

It has some limitations - for example, the Tech Decay feature only applies at the end of the season - it doesn't activate any other time so when you change teams/in your first season. you get the buff the AI gets. Thankfully, no such problem with this latest section of the game.

i also Change in part components the aggressive and passiv whigthness. Now the AI improved very well.
What i changed too is the by all "average" part i give -25 max reli and -10 red Zone.
Because the Ai increased to 100% Reli and waste time (85% is enough)
-10 red Zone is for the next year part, because the ai have Problem to fix the reli in the first 2-3 races.
i also low the designer to 8-14-22-32.

The only Problem is - u know - the Money for the Chassis or how the AI choose the Chassis!

Well, now I am boosting the AI so much by giving them much better performance potential in comparison to the player, and now allowing them much more money (which they save from developing cheaper upgrades) that it really doesn't matter if they choose to improve reliability to 100. Once I balance it right, it won't really matter if they spend money stupidly by hiring and firing drivers within a month, or make a dozen identical parts. They should be boosted enough that their deficiencies here should no longer matter.

You're not on a level playing field anymore. Its your strategy and money resource management vs the AI's new bonuses.

Will this latest change allow the AI the change to get a good chassis? Well it will probably make money available though they may spend it stupidly.
Will the AI use the money to make a good chassis? Probably not....

In all honesty though. The Chassis as a 'Game Mechanic' is really not very useful. Especially in this latest patch where I've toned down fuel-efficiency and tyre wear back to vanilla - mostly for the AI's sake. I really want to overhaul the chassis system in some way - but I have no idea how.
 
Sounds very good.

I only change in the ressource files. I tested a lot of season in tier 1 and I saw that the ai get 50 Mio. But the ai get no new staff or drivers or build new hq.

It seems that the ai waste 50 mio for a 15 mio chassis. But where are the other 35 mio.

I like the chassis design in the presaison it allows u to make a focus of improve or tyre wear or fuel efficiency. But it's so boring because here sucks the ai.

I think the ai had only here a problem with the money. In my test games the ai improved their Parts like the player and build 1,2 hq.
 
Chassis Idea?

I can theoretically change what the Chassis Stats do alternate things.

For example, currently Improvability is used as the base +Max (5stars = 20)

I could rename Fuel Efficiency to "Performance Efficiency" and make it incase the base Stat (5stars means +20, to put it equal to improvability)
I could rename Tyre Wear to "Part Wear" and make it decrease redzone (5stars means -20%)
I could rename Heat Management to "Stability" and make it increase minimum reliability (5stars means +20% with the base being 30% instead of 40%)

Actually.... I'd probably have the Improvability and Performance Effiency be more then +20. Maybe +50. To counter the massive boosts, I could just up the AI Tech Boosts. This way the Player really will want to invest in the best chassis. But it will matter not what the AI choose (they'll get the Tech Boost anyway and IF they choose a good chassis, they'll also get the increase boost from all of this). I always wanted to give the designer a biggest boost then 0-20 too, so will probably increase their value too.

Of course, Performance Eff, Part Wear and Stability is still going to alter how the car behaves in the race in regard to tyre wear, fuel eff and heat management, but those are mostly neglegable anyway (with the exception of tyre wear, which I can happily reduce in SingleSeater Data).

I'm not saying this is definitely the direction I am going to go in, but it's one I am debating (and I have tested it and it works). It will require a whole rebalance though. I'd be changing 3 core, interactive things which effect how the player and the AI progresses their parts.
 
We can try it why not.

What do u think about

Improvbility = only Motor base stat plus stat max
Fuel = gearbox and brakes stat
Tyre = front and heck wing stat
Heat = suspension stat

But how would u manage the real tyre wear,heating and fuel?

Or:

The ai has only a 1-3 stars chassis.
I mean that u change the power of stars.
1st star = 100% effect
2nd star = 75%effect
3rd star = 50%effect
4th star = 25%effect
5th star = 10 %effect

So the ai 2star tyre wear has an effect 175(not 200)
The player 4 star tyre wear has an effect 250( not 400)
Difference is closer
 
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IMO, these new chassis ideas would add motivation for me to invest in a good chassis instead of saving the money for parts. The effects are geared more towards broader aspects of the game and I can see myself spending more time for this than just fuel efficiency, tire wear and other what-nots. Let's say you change "Fuel Efficiency" to "Performance Efficiency", will this remove the original effect or do you plan on including the "fuel efficiency" effect within "performance efficiency"?
 
We can try it why not.

What do u think about

Improvbility = only Motor base stat plus stat max
Fuel = gearbox and brakes stat
Tyre = front and heck wing stat
Heat = suspension stat

I tried this originally, but it won't work. You see, the "Fuel/Tyre/Improve/Heat" values only get created AFTER the pre-season testing hits. But to apply changes to individual parts (such as the +Base stat to the engine) it needs to be done just BEFORE pre-season testing. This creates a case where a value that doesn't yet exist is trying to be read, and the game will crash. The +Base Engine stat is different, as its a value created earlier, i.e., when the suppliers are created and had their stat rolled, so it avoids the issue.

I cannot apply the +boost later either, at least not per component. At this state, they are not done individually but rather by batch, so I cannot apply one "Tyre Wear modification" on a geearbox without it being applied to all the other parts - which is why I'm making the stats do a modification in ALL parts, abiet I can switch up between +stat to all and -redzone to all as and how I wish. .

This isn't to say It's impossible. Maybe a month or two down the line after more experience with the code, I'll realise there's a method to make it happen. As for now, I can't make it work.



The ai has only a 1-3 stars chassis.
I mean that u change the power of stars.
1st star = 100% effect
2nd star = 75%effect
3rd star = 50%effect
4th star = 25%effect
5th star = 10 %effect

So the ai 2star tyre wear has an effect 175(not 200)
The player 4 star tyre wear has an effect 250( not 400)
Difference is closer

I am not a fan of this as the 5 stars, which would cost you considerablly more then 4 stars, would have a tiny improvement to the parts in comparison. And the idea is to make the player spend more money. The AI are being boosted in other ways (and I'll boost them more then I am now to make up for the fact the player can now improve his position by investing in the chassis). Their boost should be big enough to compensate for their poor choices in chassis. Which also means, if the AI make good chassis choices say 10% of the time, they're going to be much further ahead of the player then normal. To the point that the player should be crossing their fingers in hoping the AI don't take advantage of their overwhelming potential.

The goal is: If the AI is smart, they'll outpace you.
But when they're not being smart, you'll outpace them.
As a player, can you amass a good enough advantage to not lose to the AI? Thats down to skill and a bit of luck. (Normally I wouldn't like relying on luck but this is an endless game. Eventually, if you're good you're going to be able to get that WMC win! It just is going to take time.

IMO, these new chassis ideas would add motivation for me to invest in a good chassis instead of saving the money for parts. The effects are geared more towards broader aspects of the game and I can see myself spending more time for this than just fuel efficiency, tire wear and other what-nots. Let's say you change "Fuel Efficiency" to "Performance Efficiency", will this remove the original effect or do you plan on including the "fuel efficiency" effect within "performance efficiency"?

I can do either.

It's easy to keep them in as they are, so that Fuel Efficiency is within Performance Efficiency. The Performance increase will simply be in addition to the Fuel Efficiency.

But otherwise, I can decrease or remove the effects of Fuel Efficiency/Tyre Wear/Heat Management all together. And I have considered it in the past to prevent the player having too much of an advantage over the AI with their best chassis.

I'll probably decrease it as opposed to remove. I'm trying to incentive the players to have the best chassis possible. I don't want them to completely out do the AI too when it comes to in race things like tyre wear too.

Edit: I could do something wierd and revese it? Make the best chassis worse in tyre wear for example. It then becomes a trade off: better BaseStat/Reliability/Redzone/MaxStat vs worst Tyre/Fuel/Heat. It'll give the AI cars who don't invest in their chassis something too. It's also a change much like my +10 Redzone per part. There's advantages and disadvantages for developing (which amounts to performance progress vs no performance progress). An interesting Dilemma could be raised. If you are really close to winning your league.... do you keep on making an expensive chassis for part improvement, or do you use a cheap one and have a slight race advantage, but risking performance progress for this/next season?

Anyway, this is all brand new stuff I'm introducing. It's ideas based on successful experiments with the code - I'm basically brainstorming with this, and the above finance feature. We're quite a bit away from me implementing these type of changes in the mod yet.
 
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