United States & Canada

[Eric. K]

I mentioned that before, but no one commented back. How about limiting the amount of fuel like it is done in MotoGP? It would require some testing beforehand for every track, but it will force the faster guys to slow down to preserver it.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

the most critical part of getting that right and making sure it works would in my eyes be race length. which ideally would not be the same for each track as the impact would vary depending on the layout. im not fast but im consistent and find in enduros i race that the not taking tyres can dramatically improve my finishing position so people who are faster and more skilled will almost certainly find a way to turn the tyres thing around.

I can't really believe you mean that so i'm assuming you mean that not making a pitstop might improve your finishing position in some endurance races. However not changing your tyres in a mandatory pitstop in a 60 min race will not be a smart move. Driving with worn tyres will never be faster then driving with new tyres. As i said before the only question is how much of a disadvantadge it is.

this was a nigly thought in the back of my mind, and true enough depends on the gentlemanly conduct of faster drivers which this being a members event should be a given anyway.

Yes, definetly! And as this will most likely be a unofficial clubrace series for starters it is a good opportunity for both faster and slower drivers to practise this type of situations and the difficulties that it brings and that will make them better racers.

There are alot of good ideas floating around but making them work practically in reality will take some serious thinking and testing.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

I mentioned that before, but no one commented back. How about limiting the amount of fuel like it is done in MotoGP? It would require some testing beforehand for every track, but it will force the faster guys to slow down to preserver it.

Interesting thought... Maybe just forcing them to turn the revlimit down alot would be better? Or force them to start the race with full tanks of fuel and force them to refuel it to the limit at the pits? Fuel limitations sounds risky to, would not want to run out of fuel near the end of every race and i don't see how one could control it properly during the race and adjust consumption if you are running to low.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

Interesting thought... Maybe just forcing them to turn the revlimit down alot would be better? Or force them to start the race with full tanks of fuel and force them to refuel it to the limit at the pits? Fuel limitations sounds risky to, would not want to run out of fuel near the end of every race and i don't see how one could control it properly during the race and adjust consumption if you are running to low.

its fine if you have access to real time telemetry and an extra monitor but im sure some poeple will not be blessed with that nor want to be so it would be difficult to manage.

 

[William Yunck]

Warren and Eric have now both tested the wtcc cars with weight added. Warren tested 45kg on a track he is very consistent on - first running laps without and then with the 45kg in place. It only slowed his lap times down by one second and i would think 45kg would be a maximum weight addition. I would also like to add that he did not change his setup at all for the weight. I think this is a very easy way to help make the races closer yet still let the fast guys win - just not by as much and with closer racing. I think it is worth a try.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Warren tested 45kg on a track he is very consistent on - first running laps without and then with the 45kg in place. It only slowed his lap times down by one second

Just to add to this to make it clearer, the track was Brno (so a longer track approx 2.13.00 secs) using the Chevy in Practice mode and sprint race fuel level (about 8 laps).

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

Warren and Eric have now both tested the wtcc cars with weight added. Warren tested 45kg on a track he is very consistent on - first running laps without and then with the 45kg in place. It only slowed his lap times down by one second and i would think 45kg would be a maximum weight addition. I would also like to add that he did not change his setup at all for the weight. I think this is a very easy way to help make the races closer yet still let the fast guys win - just not by as much and with closer racing. I think it is worth a try.

Just to add to this to make it clearer, the track was Brno (so a longer track approx 2.13.00 secs) using the Chevy in Practice mode and sprint race fuel level (about 8 laps).

First of all you can't compare an openwheel car with a wtcc car. They are two very different types of cars that will behave differently when exceeding it's maximum natural weight.. Adding 45 kg to a F3000 which has a total weight of about 500 kg you can easily figure out will effect it alot more then a car weighing some 1100 kg. Especially since this was not a proper test. You did not even exceed the maximum weight that would come with full fuel load. Only using full tanks of fuel and then adding weight can you do any kinds of proper testing with this. Also preferably someone with F3000 experience should do it with the F3000 car.

 

[Warren Dawes]

First of all you can't compare an openwheel car with a wtcc car.

Well actually, I wasn't even attempting to test this for an open wheel car, since I don't really see it as realistic for that class. My test was to see what it might do to a WTCC car where this form of penalty is realistic compared to the real WTCC series. My test fuel level was also meant to get closer to the sprint race format which is normal for the WTCC Class.

Obviously, the fast guys here have no intentions of even testing this procedure, so I'll give up any further trialling.
I have to say, I'm amazed that you guys would consider such gimmicky things like forced pitstops, forced rev limits, forced fuel loads, etc, but any thought of weight penalties is rejected outright (something officially added to the game by Simbin to enable replication of the real WTCC Championship Series) .
To each his own I guess.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

I have to say, I'm amazed that you guys would consider such gimmicky things like forced pitstops, forced rev limits, forced fuel loads, etc, but any thought of weight penalties is rejected outright.

If you read all our posts about it you will probably understand why we think there are much better options for a endurance race. Although in a sprint race i would not mind weight penalties at all. As long as the weight penalty carried does not make the car heavier then it would with maximum fuel load then i'm totally cool with it. But in an endurance race where you might start with full fuel where the weight penalty will bring the car over it's maximum natural weight and upset it to much. And not only taking alot of fun away but also making the race much worse from a practise/developing point of view.

So i say again. In a sprint race weight penalties is not a problem. The problem starts when the weight penalty carried makes the car heavier then it's maximum natural weight which would be when the car carries maximum ammount of fuel. That's when i say no.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

Obviously, the fast guys here have no intentions of even testing this procedure, so I'll give up any further trialling.

I would not mind a doing a little testing however the only car that i can call myself familiar with is the FBMW. If someone wants to start up a server for a test with this then i would be happy to do it... Eric?

 

[Dave Stephenson]

EDIT: missed follow up reply irrelevant.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

its fine if you have access to an extra monitor

I don't.

 

[William Yunck]

If you read all our posts about it you will probably understand why we think there are much better options for a endurance race.

Niklas,
I am quite sure Warren has read all the posts on this issue, and if you would read more carefully you would see that the series we want to test is the WTCC, not the open wheeled cars. Once again we are trying to make the races more fun for everyone and gather more interest through closer racing. The easiest way to do this and most realistic is through weight penalties, just like the real WTCC uses.
Please do not write any more arguments based on open wheeled cars as that is not what we are discussing here.
Now I would like to here from some other North American racers who regularily join the WTCC and STCC events. Would you all be up for testing some modest weight penalties or not?

 

[Marcel vd Aa]

Offcourse i would be interested in testing WTCC/STCC with weight penalties .
I'm not really one of the fastest but always glad to be of assistance.

 

[Eric. K]

Offcourse i would be interested in testing WTCC/STCC with weight penalties .
I'm not really one of the fastest but always glad to be of assistance.

You are too humble Marcel.

I could setup a dedicated server for any class/track where we could meet over the weekend to play with different weights, etc...

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

Please do not write any more arguments based on open wheeled cars as that is not what we are discussing here.

Really? I must have missed something because up until now as far as i knew most of us have been talking about openwheel cars. Because this discussion started in the "North American Leauge" thread where we where asked if we wanted weight penalties in that leauge. And that leauge looks like it's gonna be a openwheel series therefor i assumed this was a discussion about openwheel cars.

 

[Bob Luneski]

Greetings to all!

I'm a YAN (Yet Another Newbie) from Portland, Oregon. My wife got me GTR Evolution and a MOMO wheel for Christmas. I haven't had this much fun since I was a kid!!!!!!

I ask, in advance, for forgiveness while I figure out how to stay on the track without traction control. I am an experienced gamer and am very serious about becoming competitive as quickly as possible. Any assistance to reduce the learning curve would be greatly appreciated.

Have a safe and prosperous New Year!!!

Bob Luneski

 

[William Yunck]

Niklas If that is the case I missed it. It was my understanding that we were trying to make the touring car club races more fun and even for everyone, not to use this platform in a league. Sorry for the missunderstanding.

 

[Niklas Vesterinen]

No problem William.

 

[Eric. K]

Hey Bob!!

Welcome to RD!!

Nice to see another Oregonian!! I live in Portland as well and my wife got me GTR-Evo for my b-day last September.

You need to get your 25 posts and within 3 weeks you will be racing with us!

In the mean time explore RD and feel free to PM me or any other staff members with any questions u might have!!

Welcome again.

-Eric

Greetings to all!

I'm a YAN (Yet Another Newbie) from Portland, Oregon. My wife got me GTR Evolution and a MOMO wheel for Christmas. I haven't had this much fun since I was a kid!!!!!!

I ask, in advance, for forgiveness while I figure out how to stay on the track without traction control. I am an experienced gamer and am very serious about becoming competitive as quickly as possible. Any assistance to reduce the learning curve would be greatly appreciated.

Have a safe and prosperous New Year!!!

Bob Luneski