What Ole said. If you are a fair driver you would leave the guy behind you some room and not force him on the grass. Imagine if Button didn't expected that and he didn't lift the throttle what would happen? He would crash into the rest of the field because of what? Vettel being selfish? But anyway. Remember last year in Hungary? Schumacher and Barrichello? I don't remember if Schumi got a penalty in that race (I think he didn't got one). So compare this to that and yeah..
Toughts about Vettel's super move at Suzuka race start
- Thread starter speedometer
- Start date
You force a driver off the road when he's next to you, since when was Button next to Vettel? Button was behind Vettel, having your front wheel next to the front car's rear ain't being next to. Since when a squeeze going into the first turn of the race a dirty move? Dirty for Button fanboys and Vettel haters. The race had as a steward Alain Prost, and he didn't see anything wrong it, but I guess he doesn't know about racing. I guess the excuse now is that he was paid off by Renault.
So much hypocrisy from Vettel and C Horner:
Why would anyone cry about that move? Button, Hamilton, Alonso, Schumi, would've done the same. Of course McLaren is gonna cry about it, that's part of the game. What you expect for Vettel to slow down and let Button through? Button's the one that messed up because he lost a position, he should've slipped behind Vettel when he saw the squeeze coming. Next time he knows not to get into that same situation. Great example, we all know how objective BBC commentators are, please.
Oh, enough with the fanboys - hater thing! Not only you, but others as well, I hate Hamilton, I hate Schumacher, I hate Vettel, I hate Ferrari, I hate Perez, but still I'm a Red Bull fanboy, a "lover" of Hamilton and so on... Or at least that's what others have said to me. You don't have to be a fan or a "hater" to say positive or negative things. I'm a freaking JV fan with a soft spot for Bruno Senna, and I cheer for HRT, when those are in question, I admit I can be a little subjective, and no objective enough. But HRT and Bruno had an awful weekend and JV is out doing some NASCAR-crashing...
BTW, driver steward was Alan Jones, not Alain Prost.
What is alongside? Front wheel to front wheel? AFAIK, the sporting regulations in Norway says that when your front wheel have passed the rear wheel of a competitor, you are defined as alongside - and those sporting regulations are taken from FIA.
Then again, this are subjective, you cannot divebomb and claim to be alongside, even though, strictly speaking, by the rules, you are.
JB did not divebomb, but he had a slightly higher speed, and Vettel saw that. Button also stayed commited and had his front wheel in front of the rear wheel. If Button had stayed on track, they would most likely tangled. And I wouldn't put the blame on Button. I think it is a bad thing the way drivers are allowed to deliberate force other drivers off track, or push them, almost into the wall in the starts. Anyway they will tangle one time, and cause a major mayhem, and without spare cars, that will be a problem, and I guess that will solve the problem.
Chris Butcher
Red Bull Gridsters 2012 Champion
Article 20.2 of the Sporting Regulations:
This all depends on what you define to be the edge of the track. The FIA declare that if even just a small part of the car is on the track, it is deemed to be on the track and not off it. I.E you have to be 100% off of the track.
With that in mind, and I don't like defending Red Bull as I despise the way their team is run, you'd have to say that his move was legal, but only just.
This all depends on what you define to be the edge of the track. The FIA declare that if even just a small part of the car is on the track, it is deemed to be on the track and not off it. I.E you have to be 100% off of the track.
With that in mind, and I don't like defending Red Bull as I despise the way their team is run, you'd have to say that his move was legal, but only just.
I think the moment you force another driver to put a wheel outside the track, you have forced that car "beyond the edge of the track". After all, that's all you need to loose control.
Chris Butcher
Red Bull Gridsters 2012 Champion
It's down to interpretation. I can't remember where I read it, but I think the FIA require the whole care to have left the track.
I do agree with you though Ole, your reasoning seems much more sensible. Perhaps you should go work for them
I do agree with you though Ole, your reasoning seems much more sensible. Perhaps you should go work for them
Vettel's move was fair on button. but i dont think theres anything to cry now, though Button was squeezed at the start, he managed to make his strategy work and won the race.
And for the second race in succession, Massa and Lewis meet again. Thankfully nothing dramatic happened on the track. both managed the situation very well this time.
And for the second race in succession, Massa and Lewis meet again. Thankfully nothing dramatic happened on the track. both managed the situation very well this time.
I thought it was a bit harsh on Button and wondered whether Vettel had lost sight of his track position, given how much he was staring in his mirror.
Alonso did the same thing to Vettel at Monza and Schumi did it on Hamilton. And there were no penalties. Honestly the guys have to race and not cry over small things like this. If the drivers went and complained about drivers raming others and using the entire body of the car to force them out of the track (BTCC style) then it's ok but for small things like this. They are well payed racing drivers, not test drivers.
I really don't like this attitude, saying "Button fanboys/Vettel haters say it was a dirty move", I wanted Vettel to be WC in last race, and I wanted Barrichello to be WC in 2009. I guess I said everything.
Front wheel ahead the rear wheel means they are alongside, that's a rule. I would never like to meet anyone on track who thinks otherwise, it's extremely frustrating when you start passing someone and then you get pushed off the road.. It angers me just as much when someone pushes my car a bit then overtakes me.
If Vettel made that move earlier, before Button was on his inside, I would have never had a problem with that! This way it was dirty.
Front wheel ahead the rear wheel means they are alongside, that's a rule. I would never like to meet anyone on track who thinks otherwise, it's extremely frustrating when you start passing someone and then you get pushed off the road.. It angers me just as much when someone pushes my car a bit then overtakes me.
If Vettel made that move earlier, before Button was on his inside, I would have never had a problem with that! This way it was dirty.
Excellent point mate. that was fair and square racing. Maybe vettel could have left an inch more, but thats ok. Thats the difference between Vettel and Alonso (Alonso Vs Button at Monza 2010). Nothing serious happened by this move by Vettel. So i guess we have stop talking about this now. And, lets stop the 'fanboy' thing!
i think he didnt even need to go that far to the inside in the first place.
vettel had the best line to the first corner anyway.
and in no way button past vettel all the way to overtake position bevore the first corner,
button would have had to brake early for the first corner and vettel had the lead fair and square keeping his dignity as a sportsman...
vettel had the best line to the first corner anyway.
and in no way button past vettel all the way to overtake position bevore the first corner,
button would have had to brake early for the first corner and vettel had the lead fair and square keeping his dignity as a sportsman...
I'm all for though racing - inside the rules. It wouldn't be any different for Button or Vettel if Vettel had left 35cm more room for Button.
I am also all for racing inside the rules but I get annoyed when drivers go and complain about every single incident. IMO the drivers overreact just a little bit to much for every single incident specially when it invalved Hamilton, Button, Vettel while when it is Schumi or Alonso then I never see the same kind of reaction when they do something similair.
Don't get me wrong but I feel like people need to be just a little bit more objective to most topics concerning two drivers having an incident because I feel like that some people (it isn't directed to any one just in general) like one driver more then the other and when that other driver get's into an incident with the driver they like they say stuff that some times make sense and some times don't but they end up being called Fanboys which IMO is just one big insult.
Cool, so after your 2 anti-McLaren rants, and of course wonderful use of the pathetic 'fanboy' thing thats going round here at the moment, I would like to point out that McLarena have not said a word on the matter.
Button said after the race 'So thats how we're racing then' and left it at that. Please re-evaluate your gibberish
By the rules or not, it was a total lack of respect... Kinda reminds me of these...
(7:15)
(Last lap from 2:40 until the end of the lap)
As I said, what if Button didn't expected that and didn't lift the throttle? He would crash into the rest of the field and for what? Vettel being a selfish bastard and wanting to win just every race in the season? Really?
And shut up Ramon. You like to talk so much about haters and fanboys, do you? You're defending Vettel and there is no problem with that. But first look at your avatar. Then look into the mirror. You hypocrite.
And shut up Ramon. You like to talk so much about haters and fanboys, do you? You're defending Vettel and there is no problem with that. But first look at your avatar. Then look into the mirror. You hypocrite.
