Seems like this thread has been invaded by the F1 markering department. Who in their right mind would compare Hamilton and Rosberg to Senna and Prost? Yes, 1988 season was shite, but the rule changes that made it possible was just the precursor of what FIA and Ecclestone could do to screw up the sport. And I mean the sport, not the soap opera people seem to be fascinated about nowadays.
Todt: F1 Doesn't Need an Overhaul
- Thread starter Bethonie Waring
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It must be a matter of opinion indeed, because all the races that I've seen from 89-91-93 were boring as hell
Unlike the races from the past 4 yearsIt must be a matter of opinion indeed, because all the races that I've seen from 89-91-93 were boring as hell
There was plenty of action in the last 4 years.
What did you do while the 1993 European GP at Donington was up then?It must be a matter of opinion indeed, because all the races that I've seen from 89-91-93 were boring as hell
I'v been a follower of the GP's since early 50's time...what is a basic change since the earlier times, apart from the cars, is the drivers.
They were just a different mindset then; you could have hero's to look up to, real men, that only cared about the racing.
How often do you see a punch up now days in the pits, or on the track...the drivers of today, as soon as they take their helmets off are to busy fluffing up their hair.
When someone like Maldonado comes along, he is looked at with distaste, because he is a bit of a bruiser and ain't scared to say "outta my way, I'm coming through."
For me the old days were far more entertaining... F1/GP used to be a hard sport; take a look at the drivers oil and dust splattered faces, when they took their goggles off.
I don't like these so called experts like Martin Brundle preaching about what a driver did wrong, or a team is doing wrong; he never won a bloody race in his career.
Murray Walker and later James Hunt who joined him, did a far better job of entertaining us punters.
They were just a different mindset then; you could have hero's to look up to, real men, that only cared about the racing.
How often do you see a punch up now days in the pits, or on the track...the drivers of today, as soon as they take their helmets off are to busy fluffing up their hair.
When someone like Maldonado comes along, he is looked at with distaste, because he is a bit of a bruiser and ain't scared to say "outta my way, I'm coming through."
For me the old days were far more entertaining... F1/GP used to be a hard sport; take a look at the drivers oil and dust splattered faces, when they took their goggles off.
I don't like these so called experts like Martin Brundle preaching about what a driver did wrong, or a team is doing wrong; he never won a bloody race in his career.
Murray Walker and later James Hunt who joined him, did a far better job of entertaining us punters.
Don't take the comment so literally... every season has some good races, always.
Of course, it's not always about the on track racing. Nobody's going to agree on what's good and what's not.
But you can't think F1 is fine and only needs new ways to talk to fans when Silverstone can barely afford to host the race, there's no German GP, backmarkers (where most of the action is) are being squeezed out due to money problems. It's not just a case of "we need to connect with the fans better".
But you can't think F1 is fine and only needs new ways to talk to fans when Silverstone can barely afford to host the race, there's no German GP, backmarkers (where most of the action is) are being squeezed out due to money problems. It's not just a case of "we need to connect with the fans better".
I'm glad people brought this up. 1993 Donington and drivers that aren't scared to say "outta my way, I'm coming through". Max Verstappen fits in perfectly with the latter description and did an awesome job at making the 2016 season exciting many times just like other great drivers did early in their career, and if we can name 1993 Donington as a great GP, then I would say the same can be said about Brazil 2016 which was only a few months ago. Like no offense.. but did you guys even watch the 2016 season? It has/had all of these things you mention it's lacking.
OT, but as an old guy I think the best year in recent memory was 1986. Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet and Berger all won races. Six drivers on pole and only 4 out of 16 races won by the poleman. Championship dramatically settled at the final round and three drivers covered by 3 points at the end. 1500bhp in qualifying and qualifying tyres to use it.
On topic, confirmed Jean Todt is an idiot!
On topic, confirmed Jean Todt is an idiot!
It comes down to what F1 is, and what it should be. I don't feel it's the technological apex of racing, the LMP1-H and the Formula E cars, and heck even Roborace or whatever they call it are arguably all much more at the forefront of driving road relevant technology forward. So if it's not about primarily about technology it should be about the racing, and here current era F1 falls flat for me. My own favorite v12-v10 eras saw most races being the leaders taking off, driving around for a bit and then collecting their trophies, much like it is today. For me personally it comes down to that era looking spectacular(to me) as they were doing it, and my most fond rivalry at least saw the drivers coming from 2-3 different stables, modern F1 cars fail for me not how they look standing still but how they look going around track, tracks that have become more and more neutered to cater to those very cars. Fixing F1, if it can be done will require a large overhaul I feel, one that looks at the entire sport and not just one aspect of it. From tracks to cars to regulations. Todt won't be the guy to do it, maybe Brawn will be. It's weird since they both played a part in some of my fondest F1 memories.
Edit: I guess my point is somewhat, look at Rally, it still wows me to this day and it's not due to the overtaking but how awesome it looks and sounds when a rally car is on the move.
Edit: I guess my point is somewhat, look at Rally, it still wows me to this day and it's not due to the overtaking but how awesome it looks and sounds when a rally car is on the move.
What a knob.. sorry i meant NOB
Let me drop another name:
Gilles Villeneuve!
How did he fare in 1977 and 1978? There were a lot of drivers and also Ferrari team members who questioned the capabilities of Gilles.
He was quick, yes, but he wrote off cars in a fashion which he could not be proud of.
Still Enzo kept faith in the guy.
Wow you've managed to say something reasonable and completely ruin it by your closing sentence...which is completely ridiculous.
Well, what if you try to elaborate instead of naming sombody ridiculous? I'll try to explain my point to you:
The PU tech is so complex, difficult and expensive to develop nobody wants to be in. Ask Honda. I bet they are asking themselves what they were thinking in 2014. May be we can tell this is top notch tech, but for me it's useless tech which only serves to add a lot of complexity, and it's so expensive nobody will be using it in mass production anyway.
There are no raw speed, drivers are always saving fuel, or tires, or both. F1 is about sprint races at full speed, not endurance, so yes, actual F1 lacks raw speed.
Engine sound, I think I don't have to explain nothing if you have ears.
Team innovation: Engine with freezed regulations and tokens hinders innovation. Aero strict regulations, hinder innovations. The only guy who seems to be the exception is Newey, I give the credit to you on that there are little team innovation then.
Driver skills: Today is easy to drive a F1 car compared with, for example, 15/20 years ago. There are no gravel traps, which allows for totally wrong moves without consecuenses, cuts, running outside track limit, without the otherwise penalties imposed by the gravel traps. We are in a simracing comunity here. For you, it's easy and more mentality demanding a track with gravel traps, or another track with paved runoff areas?
Engineers telling the driver everything they need to do, countless electronic settings to change per lap instead to let the driver have to adapt his driving style, "push that button before turn 3 to change power delivery to setting 5 in order to maximize corner exit" kind of things. Let the driver use his feet and hands for God sake!!!
Yes, I think driver skills are not as high as before. Are there different skills needed today? Yes for sure. I like the older skills, and for me, these older skills were far more superior in order to drive a killer car than the skills needed today to drive an automated car.
Azfalt Raser
DC
At one point or another, everyone will notice that their favorite television presenter is gone....or their favorite driver....or their favorite actor....
These people are gone because time, age, and relevance in society has passed us by. There is a reason why younger faces show up....they are more in tune and relevant to the happenings of today than many of us "old" folks.
Maybe it's time F1 handed over the reigns to someone younger who is in tune to today's popular culture, global economy, younger racing drivers and relevance of racing in today's society. I think it would be a better "show".
NOW GET OFF MY GRASS!
It must be a matter of opinion indeed, because all the races that I've seen from 89-91-93 were boring as hell
89 Had the Senna / Prost rivalry. Good battles for the lower scoring positions too.
91 Mansell had some good races in his attempt to catch Senna and some good performances from Berger and Alesi
93 had some good races early on in the season, plus Senna and Schumacher having a few nice battles / fights.
Things that made F1 better for me when I started watching in 1985:
Tracks were better / more interesting
Cars looked better / Not clones of each other.
No massive run offs. Drivers mistakes were punished by the gravel traps. They might as well be racing round some cones in a Tesco's car park now.
No virtual safety car. If you must insist on having a safety car at least have it bunch the field up.
No fake overtaking aids. Oh look, another DRS pass. YAWN!
Unreliability which led to unpredictability
Backmarkers who didn't have to leap out of the way. Remember Olivier Grouillard and Rene Arnoux?
The in-season development.
Special qualifying engines.
More cars on the grid / trying to qualify
Tyre war.
Using whatever compounds they liked.
Spare cars. No need to see your favourite driver out of the race if there's a first lap pileup and restart or a late car problem.
The customer Ford engine, giving smaller teams the opportunity to go racing.
V8, V10 and V12 on track at the same time.
The term "last of the late brakers"
Murray Walker. He could make boiling an egg sound exciting.
Oh, and Moustaches. Drivers had moustaches.
If it wasn't for Max it would have been very dull this year. Comes to something when you've got to rely on a 17 /18 year old newbie to show the established 'stars' how to go racing.
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Nothing that past seasons didn't have. Rosberg and Hamilton crashed themselves many times too.
Some were. Others were bad and impossible to overtake.
Personal taste, though I also liked them more.
Tracks are safer now. All drivers push for safety, we cannot have both things together.
It makes it more fair, drivers don't lose the gap.
Yeah it was much more exciting when the top car/driver was stuck for the entire race (or waiting for the pitstop) because it was virtually impossible to overtake.
Which led to more uninteresting racing at the end.
Pointless.
Waste of money that only helps top teams.
Waste of money.
More cars at the start, half of the current ones at the end. I prefer the current one.
I accept that.
Current system makes it more entertaining.
Agreed.
You can also have other engines nowadays.
Agreed.
Major myth.
Irrelevant when it comes to racing.
Again irrelevant.
So Michael did in the early 90s. Pointless comment. Plus he wasn't racing for a championship, we'll see how he behaves when he's under that pressure.
Agreed. Through 67 years of F1 we have seen many drivers who were exiting to watch. Gilles Villeneuve, Ronnie Peterson, Stefan Bellof, Jochen Rindt, Dan Gurney... all drivers who when they arrived, they where rattling some cages.
