The "What Are You Working On?" Thread
- Thread starter garyjpaterson
- Start date
I personally wouldn't add one but that is just me. I personally don't have any issue with it but many do and it is unnecessary drama I don't need.
I honestly wish you didn't post that in this thread as it is almost certain it will turn into crazy town. Hopefully I am wrong and it will be civilized.
I would say so, yes. If it was a game set in that period and it was used (like a WWII game) then I'd say no, but as a small detail on a circuit Is say it's best to play on the safe side.
Interested in others' opinions though.
Sorry. Im genuinely not looking for crazy. I think ill play it safe. Can i delete the question. Arrghh **** hope people dont crazy
Am German, don't think its crazy as its just a historic representation of something that is not even remotely connected to the war crimes. In that timeframe Germany used that flag in sports. Sure it would make the mod illegal in Germany, as video games are still excluded from the allowed presentation in art and film.
Use the flag from Chaplin's "The Great Dictator", would be a nice easter egg in my opinion:
You could have it as an optional download that way people can't complain.
For the other version, you could just have it set like a club race or different race meeting, and so the flag wouldn't be there anyway (i assume?).
But yes, whitewashing history and pretending things didn't exist is stupid and petty.
----
In regards to historical track making, yes it's really hard I think a lot of people don't appreciate how difficult it is.
The most important part is research and trying to find as much old data as possible and try to "fill in the blanks".
I think it's part of the reason you don't see the developers making much historical content - because they just want the easy quick cash less hassle option and lack the passion for older circuits. It's a shame really, as they are in far better places with contacts and cash to be able to get the required research material.
Plus for a lot of old circuits, they can laser scan the existing parts.
When Kunos scanned old spa and then said "oh actually, we won't bother to make it - it's too much effort for something that not a lot of people will care about" that told me all I needed to know :/
I don't want to spam with youtube links but:
https://www.youtube.com/user/britishpathe/search?query=donington
(some of these show th
These seem to show the original layout with the original right hander at redgate and the different start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5Tm2N3alE4
Here is a lookback before the 1993 grand prix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMXTw-cIql8
If you're using google earth, make sure you use the historical imagery as then you can see things like where lodge was before it was demolished and also it shows how the gravel trap at the old hairpin has been extended (and thus altered the service road).
To be honest i'm really unsure of how the whole landscaping has changed over the years, it seems like a lot. Unfortunately the aerials only go back to 1999.
This shows what it was like just after it was rebuilt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCCfD4c_wRk
Here is the old melbourne hairpin just after the circuit was rebuilt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n4X96Phnug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tpd1T8BwF0
As you can see, it's a lot different.
There must be photos and info on the rebuild because it would have been big media news at the time.
Sorry for link dumping - hopefully it gives you an idea of what to search for.
For the other version, you could just have it set like a club race or different race meeting, and so the flag wouldn't be there anyway (i assume?).
But yes, whitewashing history and pretending things didn't exist is stupid and petty.
----
In regards to historical track making, yes it's really hard I think a lot of people don't appreciate how difficult it is.
The most important part is research and trying to find as much old data as possible and try to "fill in the blanks".
I think it's part of the reason you don't see the developers making much historical content - because they just want the easy quick cash less hassle option and lack the passion for older circuits. It's a shame really, as they are in far better places with contacts and cash to be able to get the required research material.
Plus for a lot of old circuits, they can laser scan the existing parts.
When Kunos scanned old spa and then said "oh actually, we won't bother to make it - it's too much effort for something that not a lot of people will care about" that told me all I needed to know :/
I don't want to spam with youtube links but:
https://www.youtube.com/user/britishpathe/search?query=donington
(some of these show th
These seem to show the original layout with the original right hander at redgate and the different start:
Here is a lookback before the 1993 grand prix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMXTw-cIql8
If you're using google earth, make sure you use the historical imagery as then you can see things like where lodge was before it was demolished and also it shows how the gravel trap at the old hairpin has been extended (and thus altered the service road).
To be honest i'm really unsure of how the whole landscaping has changed over the years, it seems like a lot. Unfortunately the aerials only go back to 1999.
This shows what it was like just after it was rebuilt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCCfD4c_wRk
Here is the old melbourne hairpin just after the circuit was rebuilt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n4X96Phnug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tpd1T8BwF0
As you can see, it's a lot different.
There must be photos and info on the rebuild because it would have been big media news at the time.
Sorry for link dumping - hopefully it gives you an idea of what to search for.
Last edited:
burrito
It's an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.
I do (well... did) fix various mods that fell out of favour, VS, ASR with different physics etc but unfortunately most of those cars are without sounds since the latest (and hopefully final) sound update and as I am mostly tone deaf
that made it hard to even bother. That and having less time.Of course that was all for personal use.
TL;DR It was possible but it now requires at least two (one talented at sounds to do said mods justice) people for personal use.
Last edited:
For the Renault their is a pretty good sound mod for it so its only the tires in that case for the most basic of updates of course if DRS could work would be best. I just live in hope Nevercrash will update the mclaran and F300
Just found:
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/page/october-2002/80
pages 80 - 86
Not seen such a good picture of the farm area before!
http://www.classicandsportscar.com/blogs/james-page/uncovering-the-history-of-donington
And this shows a good pic of the old hairpin in 1971.
I really think that finding forums about old motorsport would help.
You could try contacting the circuit or trying to write to the Wheatcroft family or any kind of museum that either covers the area or cars / motorsport in general.
Perhaps Leicester / Derby councils or museums in the area will be able to help with historical aerial imagery or at least be able to tell you who might be able to help.
There is definitely 1945 imagery of the country but even anything between the time and the 90s might help, it all depends when things were altered.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/page/october-2002/80
pages 80 - 86
Not seen such a good picture of the farm area before!
http://www.classicandsportscar.com/blogs/james-page/uncovering-the-history-of-donington
And this shows a good pic of the old hairpin in 1971.
I really think that finding forums about old motorsport would help.
You could try contacting the circuit or trying to write to the Wheatcroft family or any kind of museum that either covers the area or cars / motorsport in general.
Perhaps Leicester / Derby councils or museums in the area will be able to help with historical aerial imagery or at least be able to tell you who might be able to help.
There is definitely 1945 imagery of the country but even anything between the time and the 90s might help, it all depends when things were altered.
I love old circuits, and I love the fact that people are passionate enough to dedicate so much time to bringing them back to life.
Having made both a modern, contemporary circuit (Bilster Berg), and a disused circuit from the 1960/70s (Thomson Road) I must say that although the modern track was a far easier project, the vintage track was infinitely more rewarding to make. When I finally finished it, after all that research, I felt like Frankenstein in the old film... "It's ALIVE!!!!"
Having made both a modern, contemporary circuit (Bilster Berg), and a disused circuit from the 1960/70s (Thomson Road) I must say that although the modern track was a far easier project, the vintage track was infinitely more rewarding to make. When I finally finished it, after all that research, I felt like Frankenstein in the old film... "It's ALIVE!!!!"
Yes, you're right.
I've never even made a circuit as I've been too daunted, but I still try and research to help others so I appreciate how daunting it must be.
My rule is don't trust maps, look for aerial imagery and if something looks similar to how it was but you think it is "off" then it probably has been modified.
(For example the roads at Rouen have been widened and changed a looooot).
Looking at that Ordnance Survery map from 1952 that someone linked to a few pages ago, it seems like the factory building next to the back straight was there then already.
I'm guessing it was built in the war then?
Crumbs there must be non racing related photos of the area, it's just finding them.
But yer, by far the most important part of historical track creation in my mind is the research.
That and then trying to laser / video scan what remains of the circuit / surroundings and then altering it back to "how it was".
Of course laser scanning isn't really viable for the average modder but they could use this:
http://projectvideoscanner.blogspot.co.uk/
and then video scan it.
Also google earth seems to have reasonable satellite lidar for certain areas now (not donington though).
You have to turn on 3d imagery to see it.
It has half of the sachscenring, most of brno (apart from a tiny part of the 30s layout), the 30s hockenheim etc.
For donington there is lidar data from the uk government site, though i'm not sure how much the elevation data has changed anyway.
Of course, this kind of data i'm guessing is only good quality enough for basic elevation changes and not really for road camber at all (and certainly not crowning etc) but it's far better than nothing.
Historical track creation is like filling in a jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing and the ones that are there have been changed slightly.
I've never even made a circuit as I've been too daunted, but I still try and research to help others so I appreciate how daunting it must be.
My rule is don't trust maps, look for aerial imagery and if something looks similar to how it was but you think it is "off" then it probably has been modified.
(For example the roads at Rouen have been widened and changed a looooot).
Looking at that Ordnance Survery map from 1952 that someone linked to a few pages ago, it seems like the factory building next to the back straight was there then already.
I'm guessing it was built in the war then?
Crumbs there must be non racing related photos of the area, it's just finding them.
But yer, by far the most important part of historical track creation in my mind is the research.
That and then trying to laser / video scan what remains of the circuit / surroundings and then altering it back to "how it was".
Of course laser scanning isn't really viable for the average modder but they could use this:
http://projectvideoscanner.blogspot.co.uk/
and then video scan it.
Also google earth seems to have reasonable satellite lidar for certain areas now (not donington though).
You have to turn on 3d imagery to see it.
It has half of the sachscenring, most of brno (apart from a tiny part of the 30s layout), the 30s hockenheim etc.
For donington there is lidar data from the uk government site, though i'm not sure how much the elevation data has changed anyway.
Of course, this kind of data i'm guessing is only good quality enough for basic elevation changes and not really for road camber at all (and certainly not crowning etc) but it's far better than nothing.
Historical track creation is like filling in a jigsaw puzzle with half the pieces missing and the ones that are there have been changed slightly.
You'd be surprised at how well road camber and crowning can be modeled with aerial lidar. Mainly it's a matter of how dense the scan is compared to the road width. If you have 1m scan density, it's good enough.
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