Being an internet commenter, I must argue; While it's true that Senna's and Massa's injuries could've been avoided, but going underneath a 30-40 tonne JCB would make little impact to his condition, it could even make it more dangerous, depending on what the windscreen would be made of.
The open debate on closed cockpits
- Thread starter Chloe Hewitt
- Start date
For Hydros, it's quite different.
It even adds a level of safety there, since the shape enhances the boats handling and allows for 'cleaner' airflow over the cockpit. That significantly reduces the chances of the boat catching air and going over.
It also protects the driver from plough under situation.
It does not apply here with a massive crane.
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JeffL
Right on Brother, I hear ya, it's all good.
It will change Aero on car
Thanks for the information. Haven´t seen still images or slomo´s from the incident itself. But the looks of it I thought his head hit the crane.
The other open cockpit series have had their own incidents as well: Henry Surtees and Marco Campos both suffered fatal head strikes, but there were also close calls. After a quick search I found two in the gp2 race at Magny-Cours '07 alone.
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canopys wouldnt of saved senna that was because of the force of speed into barrier
This is a really well written article and topical article after recent events I voted not sure but for me the cons outweigh the pros right now the canopy cars do look cool tho and you never know how things might develop with safety in the coming years and decades
Robert vd Heide
Piloting RC Helicopters and sim Racecars
let them first solve "the Obvious and easy "
like ,no other vehicles on track during sessions and race
and more structure in safety car deploy
after that ,they can start with closed cabins or speed control by limiter
but NOW its just a deflection of the reality to put the minds off from where the problem needs to be solved.
like ,no other vehicles on track during sessions and race
and more structure in safety car deploy
after that ,they can start with closed cabins or speed control by limiter
but NOW its just a deflection of the reality to put the minds off from where the problem needs to be solved.
NO. NO NO NO NO NO. A few accidents do not outweigh the cons of having a cockpit. The cars are so much faster even than Le Mans prototypes...plus, the tradition of open wheel racing...these men are voluntarily getting involved in a sport that is fatal...trying to fix the head collisions issue is a bit redundant in light of this. It's like trying to make war more tame by giving armies automatic rubber ball guns fixed with bayonets. They'll still kill, just in a different way. Imagine in the next 20 years if you will: a canopy traps the driver in a freak accident. Now what will we do?
David Le Saint
Yare yare daze...
This is just my view, not the truth... I'm following the Formula One for more than fifteen years now, and this close cockpit is just a stupid idea. F1 is not really F1 anymore since safety has been pushed on the top of the priorities. You know what ? F1 is dangerous, is fast, drivers know and accept the risks. Just do the test, give every driver two cars : The first one is perfectly safe, but slower, the second one is a coffin on wheels but quick as hell, I just wonder if there would ONE driver to pick the first one, I don't think so. I think F1 should be managed by drivers, not by business men, and it should be completely separated from the FIA. I mean, there should be an association for the road cars, there you go Jean Todt, and another one for the track, with former drivers ruling it.
Sorry for my bad english.
Sorry for my bad english.
Nope! It is believed that the right-front wheel and suspension was sent back into the cockpit, striking Senna on the right side of his helmet, forcing his head back against the headrest. In addition, a piece of the upright assembly, most likely a tie rod, penetrated the helmet visor, which was a new, thinner version, above his right eye. Senna sustained fatal skull fractures, brain injuries and a ruptured temporal artery. If he was driving with an enclosed cockpit, they (most likely) would've just bounced off and fractured the glass, instead of his skull.
I don't think they need too, I feel they need to improve the safety during cautions by dropping the speed to a crawl when towing equipment is brought onto the course. It's tragic what happened to jules but image if the tractor was a group of safety Marshalls assisting an injured driver!
Robert vd Heide
Piloting RC Helicopters and sim Racecars
i can see new trouble with closed cockits
racedrivers chocking to death when the motor catches fire and the damn thing wont open.
it could have killed Nicky Lauda (to balance the Senna argument)
racedrivers chocking to death when the motor catches fire and the damn thing wont open.
it could have killed Nicky Lauda (to balance the Senna argument)
Also corroborating that what killed Ayrton was a suspension piece is the fact that Senna had no other injuries besides what happened in his head.
Dan Allen
I am the Pastor Maldonado of RaceDepartment.
I voted no, mainly because I don't see it being much different in terms of safety. Remember Allan Simonsen in 2013's Le Mans race? He was in a closed cockpit and was still killed, even with all the other safety features. I don't think there's enough cold, hard evidence to suggest it would be safer, so why not save the money from developing an aerodynamically great cockpit cover and invest it into better power units/more efficient engines...
Dan, there may not be sufficient evidence for or against cockpit covers, but...
..."better power units/more efficient engines" will not save anyone. For sure.
As for Allan S.: we were all saddened by his brutal accident, but the odds of severe accidents, according to articles on motorsports safety I read, are much lower on non-open wheelers than open-wheelers. And it's probably not too difficult to ascertain (check the number of competitions/events with open-wheelers versus those with non-open wheelers).
Dan Wheldon, Maria de V., Henry Surtees, Jules are recent examples of how things can become quite ugly from being fully exposed to whatever object/structure is directed towards the cockpit. Would a closed cockpit prevent fatal blows to the head/neck/upper torso? Not all, but most - as they do.
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It matters not what form of motorsport your into, "It's all dangerous". It took Senna's death to bring changes to cockpit design and the HANS device, and it took many deaths in early F1 to bring about changes in mono-cockpit design to were it is today. All these safety implementations occurred due to major injuries or deaths in the sport over the many years F1 and Motorsport in general has been running.
To say no to a closed cockpit just because it looks ugly is pathetic, driver safety is paramount no matter what car your racing, if memory serves I remember everyone bitching and complaining the new f1 noses looked crap, but we've all grown accustom to them now, and they are not a safety aspect of the car as such. So enclosed or caged cockpits would grow on us as the ugly noses have.
Fire in the cockpit is a concern, but there are ways to overcome that, and some forms of motorsport have built in extinguishers in case of cockpit fires, drag racing being one, in fact you won't see a dragster without some form of cage around the drivers head, even the altered buckets have full head cages, and they have worse stacks than F1 at far higher speeds, and the fuel is many times more flammable, ok different form of racing but the risk's are much the same.
Deaths in motorsport are going to happen it's a risk all drivers must consider, but shouldn't their safety be the most important consideration, I know it is for me, and consider this, if there was some form of head cage or head protection on Bianchi's car he may not be were he is today, fighting for his life.
So it's a big YES from me for head protection on all open cockpit cars not just F1's.
To say no to a closed cockpit just because it looks ugly is pathetic, driver safety is paramount no matter what car your racing, if memory serves I remember everyone bitching and complaining the new f1 noses looked crap, but we've all grown accustom to them now, and they are not a safety aspect of the car as such. So enclosed or caged cockpits would grow on us as the ugly noses have.
Fire in the cockpit is a concern, but there are ways to overcome that, and some forms of motorsport have built in extinguishers in case of cockpit fires, drag racing being one, in fact you won't see a dragster without some form of cage around the drivers head, even the altered buckets have full head cages, and they have worse stacks than F1 at far higher speeds, and the fuel is many times more flammable, ok different form of racing but the risk's are much the same.
Deaths in motorsport are going to happen it's a risk all drivers must consider, but shouldn't their safety be the most important consideration, I know it is for me, and consider this, if there was some form of head cage or head protection on Bianchi's car he may not be were he is today, fighting for his life.
So it's a big YES from me for head protection on all open cockpit cars not just F1's.
i voted Yes ,not for safety, but for more aero
I think yes (or some sort of a roll hoop), because we're in 2014 and we have a sport where people race at 300 kph with their heads sticking out. I don't buy the 'it's always been open cockpit' argument, it is irrelevant, nor do I buy the 'it's all part of the sport' mentality. We aren't watching blood sports in a gladiator pit, everything needs to be done to improve safety. Yes it is dangerous, but there's no need to be reckless just because people are used to seeing it this way.
Would you go and add side wheels and canopy to the MotoGP? Just wondering becase we are in 2014?
Open wheeler should stay open wheeler, there are still other ways to make them safer.
Just becase you are closed down with roof or canopy it doesnt mean you are safe, we have seen far more deaths in closed cars in last 20 years than in open wheelers.
The forces involved in racing are so strong that no mather what protection they wear, no mather how strong the car is build, human body cannot survive such forces.
In last 20 years of crashes, the only one time the canopy would save somebody from injurys is the Massa one and this really doesnt happen so offten. In last 20 years it happened once that suspension part hit somebody on the track as driver or anybody else.
Violetta crash should NOT be taken into account and talked about safety. This was clearly teams fault on having a truck with loading ramp down on hight with drivers head and so close there.
Bianchi crash injurys from what i read are not becase he hit that digger with his head but becase of his brain movement that was caused becase he simply stopped to quickly from such high speed.
Drivers take risks sometimes that simply drives them over the edge and not even safety can help them.
