The Elephant in the room

[Cote Dazur]

I want to share a concern that I have about AMS2. It does not seem to be discussed, but when comparing how many player actually play the game, I am very worried this game will get any traction ever. It is no just less than other SIM, it is very very little, particularly as it is new.

I would love to hear what Reiza think of the abysmally small amount of user.

How many use a game does not reflect on how good it is, AMS2 is good, but not having user, hence no money coming in has to be some how worry some for Reiza and by consequence to existing user.

By all the coverage here in RD and all the superlative in this thread, you could be tempted to think that this is the next big thing for SIM racer. Not so much, why is their not more players?

 

[wolftree]

problem is we setting for example 50% TC in car setup then how do i know if i shall use low or hight TC then? is low means i have 50% i set? and then high would be 100%? or hogh is 50% i set, and low then would be 25%? or even different numbers?
yes it s not gt3 only sim, but they could make it not off,low and high stages but lets say 0-10 for all cars, or name it otherswies like instead off,low, high, they could make it 0%, 10%, 20% - 100% etc and let us bind buttons to increase or decrease TC. it would be then simplified to 10% increments but still better than 3 stages wchich i dont know wchich im supposed to use, after all this years driving in pCARS2 i still dont know to use high or low TC, same for ABS

oh i remember what i was wondering too, if maybe TC off is always off, low is what we set up in car setup, and high would be arcadish TC then? i was wondering it too, they shall at least make in menu explanatiation for this if they not plan to change it.

another thing i remember now, its in gameplay menu same for pCARS2 and AMS2 we have car systems to use custem then we can choose stability control, TC and ABS, or always off, or authentic, i of course drive on authentic systems but i dont like each time i go into road cars in pcars2 i must turn off stability, i would like it to be to choose each one separately like, stability always off, tC authentic, ABS authentic. cause if i want stability to be always off, then i must choose TC and ABS to be always off or always on, and then i cant tell if car has in real life those systems as ford gt from 1966 i can then turn all systems in it, and it had none systems back then

As I already explained above, the off/low/high setting doesn't control the same thing as the % in the setup. TC works by monitoring the slip ratio of the driven wheels, and if it exceeds a set limit (the % in the setup) it activates by cutting off throttle by some amount. The amount it cuts the throttle depends on the TC setting, on authentic I assume it cuts it by the same amount as the real car, whereas low/high are some preset levels that are same for all cars. So in this case, TC would always cut off at 50% slip (which is too much btw and would basically amount to no TC).

I believe there was a bug in pCARS2 that stability control was forced on if you turned on TC/ABS, I haven't seen anyone report seeing this in AMS2. If you set it to Authentic you should be able to have TC/ABS on but no stability control.

 

[Cote Dazur]

FFB is a new elephant?

Funny, how in some game thread it always comes back to FFB, not that their is anything wrong with it, of course not. . So it might be an other elephant in the room.
Meanwhile the original elephant is still there, but talking about it would be too much like beating a dead horse.
The new way of looking at it is that is does not matter, the few (still) playing AMS2 are happy, Reiza is happy and isn't it all that matters after all?
All the others play something else.

 

[BlaKArg]

Funny, how in some game thread it always comes back to FFB, not that their is anything wrong with it, of course not. . So it might be an other elephant in the room.
Meanwhile the original elephant is still there, but talking about it would be too much like beating a dead horse.
The new way of looking at it is that is does not matter, the few (still) playing AMS2 are happy, Reiza is happy and isn't it all that matters after all?
All the others play something else.

I don't get it. FFB to me is one of AMS2s strongest points. To me, on a lowly TMX, there is AMS2, and then there's everything else, and it's not even that close.

As far as the player count, I see more full lobbies now than at any point during the last year. Although I play in South American time so there's probably more Brazilian and Argentinian drivers at that time.

But yeah, I couldn't care less if I was the only person in the world driving this sim. I am incredibly happy with its progress and I can't wait to see where Reiza take it.

Of course I'm still driving ACC, AC, R3E, Dirt 2... pretty much everything but rF2. But I need my AMS2 fix pretty much every day.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I don't get it

What I was expressing, following the judicious comment from @Andrew_WOT is that their is a lot of post, including in this thread, that I started and is not about FFB, about people trying to get a FFB they can like. So while their are guy's like you claiming AMS2 FFB is the best thing since slice bread, and maybe because of comments from players like you, their a lot of puzzled players trying to get a piece of that amazing FFB and asking a lot of questions. Hence, maybe, it might be an other elephant in the room.
I am not saying anything about FFB in this thread, because their is plenty of other threads with zillion comments and solutions addressing the issue, even though according to you their is no issue.

As far as the player count, I see more full lobbies now than at any point during the last year

As for more players than ever in AMS2, last I checked, the daily average is still hovering around 250, so I am the one not getting it about your answer.

 

[BlaKArg]

What I was expressing, following the judicious comment from @Andrew_WOT is that their is a lot of post, including in this thread, that I started and is not about FFB, about people trying to get a FFB they can like. So while their are guy's like you claiming AMS2 FFB is the best thing since slice bread, and maybe because of comments from players like you, their a lot of puzzled players trying to get a piece of that amazing FFB and asking a lot of questions. Hence, maybe, it might be an other elephant in the room.
I am not saying anything about FFB in this thread, because their is plenty of other threads with zillion comments and solutions addressing the issue, even though according to you their is no issue.



As for more players than ever in AMS2, last I checked, the daily average is still hovering around 250, so I am the one not getting it about your answer.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound aggresive towards you or anything, I was just commenting on your points.

I keep hearing rF2's FFB is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, and to me it's probably the worst feeling out of all the major sims. So, I guess aside from different setups, we all have different tastes when it comes to FFB.

250 people playing AMS2 daily is, to me, not a bad number as of today. Do Beta testers count towards that number? In any case, I meant that there's more people playing it now than at any other point, and I expect the numbers to continue growing as it develops into a fully fleshed out product.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I keep hearing rF2's FFB is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread

So true, and like for any other SIM, a lot of posts of many player trying to experience that outstanding FFB so touted by RF2 FFB enthusiast. I believe that over zealous comments are creating expectations that no game on earth can reach, with the consequence that a lot people are on a goose chase and end up disappointed.

250 people playing AMS2 daily is, to me, not a bad number as of today

It is also a good number for Reiza, kind of what they expected, my point was that it has been hovering around that for a while now, so I don’t see the progression after the game has been available and well covered by every body for a year.

I personally have no issue with AMS2 FFB, not my favorite, but even my favorite has issues, to me, like with most aspect of any SIM, at this time, we have to choose between sets of compromise. Claiming any aspect of any sim available today as perfect sound really foolish to me.
Let’s enjoy what we prefer but stay lucid on how much further simulation needs to improve before we can claim it is so superior to any other alternative.

 

[reshaderacer]

At the risk of sounding like this is overly defending them, but I think its being real, the number to look at is really 550 peak concurrent, and the time is not January Christmas holidays, so its pretty decent I would say, or covid.

Automobilista 2 just became a pretty cool elephant. Still an elephant and a room I suppose, but cool nonetheless

Absolutely something like raceroom is a lot more 'fun' to race as such as one might expect; but when I put in steelcasts settings for some of the cars, they transform. I was already enjoying it, but with his settings via youtube, its taken on a new life.

Sure AMS2 is fun but it can also be tedious, but this is just with development. So many other titles can be tedious too. Its not limited to AMS2.

But what the thread is about is the online lobby's. Yes they can be really fun, guess that will come in time. When I say frustration its not fully baked, but this does not mean it has no value as entertainment. When I think about driving/hooking up the wheel frame, I think about AMS2 as it actually has an update cadence better than even AC atm. rfactor2 less so since its stalled but I really like some tracks/cars on that, and specific races/classes in AC (such as bridgehampton and various Kunos-only cars) and rarely ACC as its too specific, but those GT3's I would race in Rfactor2. Interestingly I have many of the same tracks in different engines/games and its suprising what one picks to race them on.

I will only race for example Spa on AMS2.

I even own AMS1. Its very good but I do not play it as much but I did set it up well. AMS2 did supercede it imo.

So nothing has really progressed from page 1 of the thread, but at least maybe the probability for success there is higher than ever. I am not saying the AI is bad, but they are badly behaved, its good AI, but I am saying when the races are against people at least in AMS2 you can really see the difference; which does not stop me from doing laps in AMS2, it does curtail is somewhat, but online racing I don't even do a whole lot in raceroom.

Online racing can be often no better than FPS-arena type games. Got to be careful what we wish for.

because I no longer have to soften the suspension in order to get turning happening, and increases in tyre pressure does its job I do not think 50% of people will go from the game when they come back to it. I think its retention rate will be much higher.

rfactor 2 is the same - it has the same kind of hell-bent AI which will run you off the road. and sure you may get the jump on them at the lights, pole position, and they will chase you down and by the first turn they will be knocking you off the line. in ams2 I am doing 92 and 60 aggression. Road atlanta, sure its not an official track or nothing, but the AI is heat seeking destroyers of humans.

i do hope some online play is forthcoming. But how many people check the online when they actually log on.

bathhurst is another track with a steelcast setup (and Ive used others of my own in the past) but for this update... its amazing and I find it hard to envisage myself racing bathhurst now on any other sim (overly much). I think its in ACC and AC too, maybe even in rfactor via a mod, but I will only drive it on AMS2. Thats saying something because the audi r8 in RFactor2 forget if its a mod, doubt it, is a brilliant car - almost too good, but wow. So those two tracks especially and all the historic and imola, I don't usually apart from race room choose to race imola - all these sims have good aspects to them. Guess I am just developing preferences.

It'd be nice if AMS2 did have more online stuff/usage, its a good entry point for people, such an engine, AMS2 uses, so if only it were so.

(I do expect the audi r8 in real life to be able to brake like that and turn like that on the 'limit' who coined that... but it explains such a thing...in AMS2 its so easy to drive too fast, some of those cars until they are set up right via steelcat or your own constant tweaking, did not/do not but most likely did not brake enough or stick enough to the road...things are different now, but AMS2 is closer than ever to an online-ready game.

Only hope it will happen for them.

- yes with AMS2 I guess that I am playing 4 different driving style games - you need to ease off the throttle - and if you take the steelcast setup for 2001 imola, but you go back in time to an easier layout, it drives even more like a dream, in 88 - the merc gt1 - I can imagine that race/setup/track being a total blast for an online audience to race. In rf2 you do not need to ease up intermittently on the throttle, etc, with a lot of the cars, as they are designed in it and other games, maybe not all cars, to be driven flat-out. Now the angles in AMS2 are better I am seeing a pattern of quality develop. You find that in rfactor 2, and raceroom is a flat out racer, but its no less fun.

Maybe AMS2 features a longer acceleration line or something with the throttle not sure what it is, some kind of calibration thing maybe, but its possibly even better.

- in a 3 lap AI race in AMS2 starting from the back, can usually make up 1 or 2 positions per lap which is really good.

IF racing against humans, probably 5 or 6 per lap haha.. even with bots i reckon AMS2 is good in online, AI is guarding their spots jealously.

 

[reshaderacer]

What I was expressing, following the judicious comment from @Andrew_WOT is that their is a lot of post, including in this thread, that I started and is not about FFB, about people trying to get a FFB they can like. So while their are guy's like you claiming AMS2 FFB is the best thing since slice bread, and maybe because of comments from players like you, their a lot of puzzled players trying to get a piece of that amazing FFB and asking a lot of questions. Hence, maybe, it might be an other elephant in the room.
I am not saying anything about FFB in this thread, because their is plenty of other threads with zillion comments and solutions addressing the issue, even though according to you their is no issue.



As for more players than ever in AMS2, last I checked, the daily average is still hovering around 250, so I am the one not getting it about your answer.

further to my last post, its a bit greedy of me taking up 2 posts, sorry,

I use a custom file right now, though default is virtually the same and I use that and set it
up similarly almost

I use after much consideration and testing across many combinations

95 gain
30 LFB (tx wheel, if dd and only if dd use much less but most likely 0; if not use more)
60 - fx - used to be 50 but 60 is great
45 dampener - in custom this is actually turning strength. It can be set independently, but this is almost ideal

This will almost certainly give you a strong center, great turning and enough feel and vibration to not clip unless smashed into then who minds, and drive as best as possible.

on default I use 68-72 gain, almost no lfb - 12-20, 50 fx and no damper.

I also race with the helmet view and use the depth of feild these days, never liked it but now I do, and I am racing gt3r porsche at 24 hours nords, from the back a tricky race to say the least, and the setup is fine and allows a lot of finer movements and corrections. I am using for this patch steelcasts youtube setup video about it.

As my other post is explaining, essentially this type of thing basically matches or exceeds a little maybe in certain regards but not all, a race-room AI race.

Its good. So I just spun out and was on the grass and there was a nice meaty "thwack" x 3 or so on the wheel as the rubber tried to grab the road again, soft on grass then harder on the road, and there was bouncing and scuffing, then it took off and got smoother. hard to explain, but the FFB is definitely there in regards to feel and indicating whats happening.

The above should give it a lot of the center bite that a lot of people are craving or wanting more of, and the all important weight shifting bounce, at least for the porsche gtr3, but merc gt1 was good too today; open wheelers, amazing.

Then take individual cars if you want downward so they do not clip. Above is a base. Example, gen 2 v10 is down to 95% for me.

The base above allows the wheel to have a mind of its own enough and also to provide 'feedback' enough and be as visceral as possible - but it does give the wheel a workout.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound aggresive towards you or anything, I was just commenting on your points.

I keep hearing rF2's FFB is supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, and to me it's probably the worst feeling out of all the major sims. So, I guess aside from different setups, we all have different tastes when it comes to FFB.

250 people playing AMS2 daily is, to me, not a bad number as of today. Do Beta testers count towards that number? In any case, I meant that there's more people playing it now than at any other point, and I expect the numbers to continue growing as it develops into a fully fleshed out product.

i have not tried rFactor2 never just cause AC fanboys praising it too much saying its more difficult to drive there than AC so im scared , as i saw when iracing driving is more difficult driving than AC, and i saw real life pro drivers bashing it cause its harder to drive in iracing than in real life. im just scared of rfactor2 that this game is for "harcore" simmers aka masochists simmers. But i tell ffb in AMS2 is definately not wrong and for some cars i feel it so much natural, responsive its just pretty good, realistic linear response but sadly most sim racers are still used to AC shaking wheel-non linear-like horse riding response xD

 

[BlaKArg]

i have not tried rFactor2 never just cause AC fanboys praising it too much saying its more difficult to drive there than AC so im scared , as i saw when iracing driving is more difficult driving than AC, and i saw real life pro drivers bashing it cause its harder to drive in iracing than in real life. im just scared of rfactor2 that this game is for "harcore" simmers aka masochists simmers. But i tell ffb in AMS2 is definately not wrong and for some cars i feel it so much natural, responsive its just pretty good, realistic linear response but sadly most sim racers are still used to AC shaking wheel-non linear-like horse riding response xD

There's nothing "difficult" about rF2, I would say it's easier to drive than AC. Give it a try, you might like it.

 

[mesfigas]

i have not tried rFactor2 never just cause AC fanboys praising it too much saying its more difficult to drive there than AC so im scared , as i saw when iracing driving is more difficult driving than AC, and i saw real life pro drivers bashing it cause its harder to drive in iracing than in real life. im just scared of rfactor2 that this game is for "harcore" simmers aka masochists simmers. But i tell ffb in AMS2 is definately not wrong and for some cars i feel it so much natural, responsive its just pretty good, realistic linear response but sadly most sim racers are still used to AC shaking wheel-non linear-like horse riding response xD

stop being afraid mate

 

[reshaderacer]

if you're just playing ams2 but you are not playing other racing games, thats bad.

 

[Deleted member 963434]

if you're just playing ams2 but you are not playing other racing games, thats bad.

you tell to me? man i play AC, ACC, AMS2, pCARS2, F1 2020, beam.ng, Raceroom, iracing i play all of it same time i quickly swap sims during one evening and for me my cirrent settings on wheel it all feel pretty similar but i noticed ffb in ams2 is nothing wrong, i would even tell simracers may be used to weird AC ffb as there you have dynamic ffb from wheel geometry which not work as that in real cars, real cars have suspension, sttering rack. AC ffb works more like horse riding than real cars xD but simracers so used to it they tell AMS2 ffb is wrong,
i can tell you what i just discovered playin AMS2 yesterday that its ffb allows to catch slide best of all sims.
in AC, ACC you still have that "boat thing" cars are little too floaty, its less effect in ACC but in AC road cars are really too floaty like boats on water. in AMS2 and Raceroom you have most realistic feeling of stering shaft i can tell you that. but catching slides in real life is so much easier than in sims i can tell as once driving my e36 in real life on wet i downshifted and released clutch too quick and i went slide but i catch that slide real quick. and i compare AMS2 has most realistic catching slides and steering rack feel of all sims i know. its so natural but simmers are now alienated to AMS2 cause then not feel ffb forces they used to feel in AC, which in AC that forces was over exaggerated in AC, canned effects that you not feel in real car, THATS THE MAIN ISSUE with AMS2 ffb, its too realistic ffb for sim racers. yo know ? they need to feel EVERYTHING, every small stone on road they need to feel it with them fingers , and if you go slide in sim if save is too easy that means sim is arcade you know?

 

[reshaderacer]

you tell to me? man i play AC, ACC, AMS2, pCARS2, F1 2020, beam.ng, Raceroom, iracing i play all of it same time i quickly swap sims during one evening and for me my cirrent settings on wheel it all feel pretty similar but i noticed ffb in ams2 is nothing wrong, i would even tell simracers may be used to weird AC ffb as there you have dynamic ffb from wheel geometry which not work as that in real cars, real cars have suspension, sttering rack. AC ffb works more like horse riding than real cars xD but simracers so used to it they tell AMS2 ffb is wrong,
i can tell you what i just discovered playin AMS2 yesterday that its ffb allows to catch slide best of all sims.
in AC, ACC you still have that "boat thing" cars are little too floaty, its less effect in ACC but in AC road cars are really too floaty like boats on water. in AMS2 and Raceroom you have most realistic feeling of stering shaft i can tell you that. but catching slides in real life is so much easier than in sims i can tell as once driving my e36 in real life on wet i downshifted and released clutch too quick and i went slide but i catch that slide real quick. and i compare AMS2 has most realistic catching slides and steering rack feel of all sims i know. its so natural but simmers are now alienated to AMS2 cause then not feel ffb forces they used to feel in AC, which in AC that forces was over exaggerated in AC, canned effects that you not feel in real car, THATS THE MAIN ISSUE with AMS2 ffb, its too realistic ffb for sim racers. yo know ? they need to feel EVERYTHING, every small stone on road they need to feel it with them fingers , and if you go slide in sim if save is too easy that means sim is arcade you know?

Didn't mean to start a direct conversation about it as like you were in the wrong. I know exactly what you mean. I was saying in general. Yep they are such a certain bunch of people, sim racers.

You're doing alright. You could only improve on the fact that maybe you're playing too many racing sims now Hehe

 

[reshaderacer]

Double

 

[Deleted member 197115]

AMS2 1 year later.

 

[Fi22le]

AMS2 1 year later.

One person’s opinion 1 year later. No more or less valid than yours or mine, just that he’s making videos.

Genuine question: do you have an axe to grind with Reiza? You often post about poor sales figures etc, and I’m interested in your motivation.

Personally, if there’s a sim that I don’t like, I just move on. I’m not suggesting that you should do that, I’m just curious about your interest in AMS2.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

It's a good analysis with proper constructive criticism, I personally find myself in agreement with lots of stuff pointed out.
Also a very reasonable explanation of low player numbers, which is a subject of this very thread.

 

[wolftree]

It's a good analysis with proper constructive criticism, I personally find myself in agreement with lots of stuff pointed out.
Also a very reasonable explanation of low player numbers, which is a subject of this very thread.

It is a terrible, superficial analysis with no basis in fact that demonstrates the author hasn't touched the game in months.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

We've probably paid attention to different things in this video, how much in particular changed in the last few months.