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Team ORSM
- Thread starter Bram Hengeveld
- Start date
Phil,I have known you for years,I have done your personal liveries to make you look good for sponsors on your failed websites and servers.
As far as crawling goes you are the land crab of the mod world.
Never done a livery or model in your life other than leach off everyone else.
What gives you the right to say what you have when all you do is leach.
So all these years later did you get permission from the companies to use their logo's,model silhouettes etc,I bet not.
You and idiots like yourself are why the modding scene is slowly dying.
Cheers,Ferret40
As far as crawling goes you are the land crab of the mod world.
Never done a livery or model in your life other than leach off everyone else.
What gives you the right to say what you have when all you do is leach.
So all these years later did you get permission from the companies to use their logo's,model silhouettes etc,I bet not.
You and idiots like yourself are why the modding scene is slowly dying.
Cheers,Ferret40
Haha, You know, I love the way you two FVR gentlemen come out en force and just go full attack. it shows passion, and that is truly admirable.
What's not admirable however is the manner in which the two more recent post's made by Ferret40 and Flash of the FVR mod team are somewhat scathing and more so particularly attacking of myself because dare I share some of my thoughts and implied suggestions on the topic.
Shame gent's. Not classy. Totally not classy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fez, Yes you have made a few skins for me a few years ago. They were based on the Bullzye Gear clothing company i remember them well because your work was excellent! And in-fact, to clarify, Yes, I did seek and receive their permission to use their logo's and images. I think I'm pretty sure we discussed this and I'm even more sure that I even cc'd you in on the emails requesting and receiving approval. Hay 4 or 5 years ago... Easy to forget.
Failed websites and servers?
You mean the ones I closed down myself because the communities member base wouldn't assist (sufficiently enough) to cover the full and complete cost's of running them?
The same one I closed down where my assistant administration team whom I put in place to assist run the community were slowly taking over? No worries, you know all about that I guess. I've never discussed these things in detail and I never will. I don't air dirty laundry in public, but listen to what you've heard by all means, it's of no consequence to me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And Jeremy,
I was able to leech of the modder's who for years supported what we were doing?
So what are we "end users" to you?
The little people out in the worlds sim racing communities, The same people who enjoy your mods, wrought of your efforts and toil... are you saying we are all just leeches?
Wow.
When we used your mods, we always, always had the utmost respect for your work and we still do!
i won't go full attack or get nasty though.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ya know what ... A land crab and a leech... Thank you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can't wait for development studio's to take on these car categories under a licence.
The sim community could then perhaps defrag, reunite, and the quality of what we are operating with will improve.
Admin, I think it's time this thread was closed no?
_____________
Edit. Added "(sufficiently enough)" and made the comment to RD Admin bold.
What's not admirable however is the manner in which the two more recent post's made by Ferret40 and Flash of the FVR mod team are somewhat scathing and more so particularly attacking of myself because dare I share some of my thoughts and implied suggestions on the topic.
Shame gent's. Not classy. Totally not classy.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fez, Yes you have made a few skins for me a few years ago. They were based on the Bullzye Gear clothing company i remember them well because your work was excellent! And in-fact, to clarify, Yes, I did seek and receive their permission to use their logo's and images. I think I'm pretty sure we discussed this and I'm even more sure that I even cc'd you in on the emails requesting and receiving approval. Hay 4 or 5 years ago... Easy to forget.
Failed websites and servers?
You mean the ones I closed down myself because the communities member base wouldn't assist (sufficiently enough) to cover the full and complete cost's of running them?
The same one I closed down where my assistant administration team whom I put in place to assist run the community were slowly taking over? No worries, you know all about that I guess. I've never discussed these things in detail and I never will. I don't air dirty laundry in public, but listen to what you've heard by all means, it's of no consequence to me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And Jeremy,
I was able to leech of the modder's who for years supported what we were doing?
So what are we "end users" to you?
The little people out in the worlds sim racing communities, The same people who enjoy your mods, wrought of your efforts and toil... are you saying we are all just leeches?
Wow.
When we used your mods, we always, always had the utmost respect for your work and we still do!
i won't go full attack or get nasty though.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ya know what ... A land crab and a leech... Thank you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I can't wait for development studio's to take on these car categories under a licence.
The sim community could then perhaps defrag, reunite, and the quality of what we are operating with will improve.
Admin, I think it's time this thread was closed no?
_____________
Edit. Added "(sufficiently enough)" and made the comment to RD Admin bold.
Last edited:
Well , This interesting we have on one hand ORSM and FRV claiming that Jean-Claude's works was not his own and have since force him to remove said work from these forum pages. Now the Models in con-testate, ie the Mercedes & Volvo are not and have not ever been part of either the FVR or ORSM V8 SuperCars for rFactor.
I'd like to see either party actually prove that Jean Claude has plagiarized someone else's modeling work, as they claim.
I heard a whisper recently that there might be a far superior Mod being worked on for the Race Simming Community one involves commercially purchased models that might make the current offerings look a bit drab.
I hear it will feature the full compliment of cars Ford, Holden, Mercedes, Volvo and Nissan - better grip co-efficients and realistic feel based on actual race car Motec Data of suspension loads and movements.
If this comes to fruition then there may well be a lot of humble pie to be eaten around here. Any work whether it is and individual or a modding team that is done to advance a specific mod or series has got to be good for Simming community as a whole and bitching and back biting is IMHO counterproductive and is perhaps what Phil is eluding to here.
I'd like to see either party actually prove that Jean Claude has plagiarized someone else's modeling work, as they claim.
I heard a whisper recently that there might be a far superior Mod being worked on for the Race Simming Community one involves commercially purchased models that might make the current offerings look a bit drab.
I hear it will feature the full compliment of cars Ford, Holden, Mercedes, Volvo and Nissan - better grip co-efficients and realistic feel based on actual race car Motec Data of suspension loads and movements.
If this comes to fruition then there may well be a lot of humble pie to be eaten around here. Any work whether it is and individual or a modding team that is done to advance a specific mod or series has got to be good for Simming community as a whole and bitching and back biting is IMHO counterproductive and is perhaps what Phil is eluding to here.
Damn I didn't want to have to reply again.
Firstly Maurie King when I said the images I meant the look of the car, you have to look at photos at least to create the car - geez. What I was saying is a the Volvo had to look like the Volvo and the only copyright is the look, I built the model from scratch so lets not tie that up here. The models are scratch built for goodness sakes. Good luck with the commercially purchased one, I hope it comes to fruition.
Phil, not sure where I was being insulting to you, as I said, I don't want to do mods for people from scratch if they are satisfied with ripped off commercial works. Maybe some of my comments words like selfish grumbling you assumed were about you, Phil they weren't. My only comment to you is that if you had built something from scratch you would understand. Phil to date I don't believe you have built a car or a track from scratch, they are bloody hard work and very time consuming. As for leeching, yes you had taken my tracks and put them in a track pack much to my disdain. Leeches take but don't give back. You gave back nothing to our community at FVR during the respectful time.
I never told Jclaude to stop, in fact I said the opposite if anyone bothers to read my posts. I don't want to put in 1000 hours (not including skins) if JClaude only has to do 10 to get the models in game(not including skins), why would I bother. I said I won't bother doing anymore because it sucks the spirit of a scratch modder. So Phil you have to read the posts a bit more. You seem to think when its public it can be ripped no matter who it is, so my comments say I won't let my scratch built Altima be released for someone to rip as Jclaude said in his earlier posts. As for the Merc and the Volvo both scratch built as well from FVR. I just couldn't be bothered going any further as I have lost interest due to what I said above. I'm just annoyed that it is become the acceptable standard to pilfer. It was an enjoyable hobby. Maybe yes it would be great so that we can have a studio do the cars again, couldn't agree more. Good luck with that thought.
Firstly Maurie King when I said the images I meant the look of the car, you have to look at photos at least to create the car - geez. What I was saying is a the Volvo had to look like the Volvo and the only copyright is the look, I built the model from scratch so lets not tie that up here. The models are scratch built for goodness sakes. Good luck with the commercially purchased one, I hope it comes to fruition.
Phil, not sure where I was being insulting to you, as I said, I don't want to do mods for people from scratch if they are satisfied with ripped off commercial works. Maybe some of my comments words like selfish grumbling you assumed were about you, Phil they weren't. My only comment to you is that if you had built something from scratch you would understand. Phil to date I don't believe you have built a car or a track from scratch, they are bloody hard work and very time consuming. As for leeching, yes you had taken my tracks and put them in a track pack much to my disdain. Leeches take but don't give back. You gave back nothing to our community at FVR during the respectful time.
I never told Jclaude to stop, in fact I said the opposite if anyone bothers to read my posts. I don't want to put in 1000 hours (not including skins) if JClaude only has to do 10 to get the models in game(not including skins), why would I bother. I said I won't bother doing anymore because it sucks the spirit of a scratch modder. So Phil you have to read the posts a bit more. You seem to think when its public it can be ripped no matter who it is, so my comments say I won't let my scratch built Altima be released for someone to rip as Jclaude said in his earlier posts. As for the Merc and the Volvo both scratch built as well from FVR. I just couldn't be bothered going any further as I have lost interest due to what I said above. I'm just annoyed that it is become the acceptable standard to pilfer. It was an enjoyable hobby. Maybe yes it would be great so that we can have a studio do the cars again, couldn't agree more. Good luck with that thought.
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anything on there that has my name on it are done..
Looks like the outstanding stock is Team Kiwi, Autobarn, Perkins and Morris.
All the rest look like Doug and I have them covered.
All the rest look like Doug and I have them covered.
Nice work guys!!!!!! Is it too early to be thinking bout 04 while we are on a roll? I know iv started the windows for it
Did I say that what J-Claude was doing / had done was acceptable? Definitely not.
Did you read that anywhere in my post / post's specifically? Nope. Absolutely not.
How you would come to this conclusion escapes me.
Maybe it's YOU who should read the posts a little more thoroughly.
Did you read that anywhere in my post / post's specifically? Nope. Absolutely not.
How you would come to this conclusion escapes me.
Maybe it's YOU who should read the posts a little more thoroughly.
If see if I understand the proceedings here :- JClaude was showcasing his painting on existing vehicles in rFactor correct, and if I understand Doug's post on page 4 JClaude was seeking permission to "Add" his vehicles ie the Volvo and Merc to the V8 Mod and this was denied - understandably as discussion within the ORSM Team would be needed.
But then Doug went on to say that he had no issues with painter's creating the current liveries to suit the existing models, this DOES NOT constitute creating a new mod IMHO which some seem to have implied but rather a custom skin pack like so many that have been produced already.
On a slightly different tack here In FSX ie Flight Sim 10 there are many Aircraft (duh) and I can ADD custom instrumentation Payware or Freeware to enhance the Aircraft, Admittedly this is only occurring on my PC in my FSX but the principle is the same "Enhancement"
Why on earth can't JClaude create what is essentially an add-on pack to the existing Mod to advance it ?? This would revitalize the V8SuperCar mod and saving Doug and the Team a lot of additional work and personally I think they would be remiss in not embracing the possibility of adding the current missing vehicles to the series.
Now whether this is by allowing an add on pack created by JClaude and their group OR asking JClaude and other's to join the ORSM Team then we all WIN.
By that I mean JClaude and the team have an outlet for their passionate work and ORSM gets an injection of talent and the missing Vehicles, so everyone has a happy ending.
OK back to the Models (bloody generic term) is " Commodore1.max " file in 3DSMax is the Model thousands of polygons and hours of work, this file is then transformed by various means and programs into a GMT file that rFactor reads and interprets as a 3D object which then thanks to some clever UVwrapping can re-wrap the vehicle texture in the form of a Direct Draw Sheet with Alpha layer to create either transparency (Windows) or reflectivity (Chrome finish) around that object and now we see it as a full on Car in Rfactor for instance.
As I understand it these GMT files cannot be turned back into a 3D file that 3DSMAX - Maya or other's can actually open and modify. If this is in fact the case then what right does that give ANYONE to question the legitimacy of the Volvo and Merc or any of the work that JClaude and their team were working on "WERE" being the operative word, so whether JClaude created the Volvo or Merc in 3DSMAX or whatever scratch built or modified file is NOT for us to say and IMHO it behooves anyone that question him to either prove the work he has shown us is not his or put a sock in it.
I'm not trying to be the ****** in the wood pile here , I'm trying to make some sense of what is going on - we could be on the cusp of seeing a much needed injection in the ORSM mod killed before it has begun to take flight and this to me is a real pity as there are talented developer's and painter's within the community that could all work together and create something exceptional.
iRacing spends many dollars and still it can't get things right IMHO yet here we are bitching at each other over little things that can and have demoralized a number of passionate developer's, WTF c'mon fellas we ALL enjoy various aspects of the Simming pastime. Please work together for a common amicable solution !!
Maybe I have misunderstood things here and maybe I am out of line but I just get so cheesed off when I see serious talent shot down.
PS how many people that have contributed to this thread have a legitmate version of rFactor ...... just saying 'cause I know I do.
But then Doug went on to say that he had no issues with painter's creating the current liveries to suit the existing models, this DOES NOT constitute creating a new mod IMHO which some seem to have implied but rather a custom skin pack like so many that have been produced already.
On a slightly different tack here In FSX ie Flight Sim 10 there are many Aircraft (duh) and I can ADD custom instrumentation Payware or Freeware to enhance the Aircraft, Admittedly this is only occurring on my PC in my FSX but the principle is the same "Enhancement"
Why on earth can't JClaude create what is essentially an add-on pack to the existing Mod to advance it ?? This would revitalize the V8SuperCar mod and saving Doug and the Team a lot of additional work and personally I think they would be remiss in not embracing the possibility of adding the current missing vehicles to the series.
Now whether this is by allowing an add on pack created by JClaude and their group OR asking JClaude and other's to join the ORSM Team then we all WIN.
By that I mean JClaude and the team have an outlet for their passionate work and ORSM gets an injection of talent and the missing Vehicles, so everyone has a happy ending.
OK back to the Models (bloody generic term) is " Commodore1.max " file in 3DSMax is the Model thousands of polygons and hours of work, this file is then transformed by various means and programs into a GMT file that rFactor reads and interprets as a 3D object which then thanks to some clever UVwrapping can re-wrap the vehicle texture in the form of a Direct Draw Sheet with Alpha layer to create either transparency (Windows) or reflectivity (Chrome finish) around that object and now we see it as a full on Car in Rfactor for instance.
As I understand it these GMT files cannot be turned back into a 3D file that 3DSMAX - Maya or other's can actually open and modify. If this is in fact the case then what right does that give ANYONE to question the legitimacy of the Volvo and Merc or any of the work that JClaude and their team were working on "WERE" being the operative word, so whether JClaude created the Volvo or Merc in 3DSMAX or whatever scratch built or modified file is NOT for us to say and IMHO it behooves anyone that question him to either prove the work he has shown us is not his or put a sock in it.
I'm not trying to be the ****** in the wood pile here , I'm trying to make some sense of what is going on - we could be on the cusp of seeing a much needed injection in the ORSM mod killed before it has begun to take flight and this to me is a real pity as there are talented developer's and painter's within the community that could all work together and create something exceptional.
iRacing spends many dollars and still it can't get things right IMHO yet here we are bitching at each other over little things that can and have demoralized a number of passionate developer's, WTF c'mon fellas we ALL enjoy various aspects of the Simming pastime. Please work together for a common amicable solution !!
Maybe I have misunderstood things here and maybe I am out of line but I just get so cheesed off when I see serious talent shot down.
PS how many people that have contributed to this thread have a legitmate version of rFactor ...... just saying 'cause I know I do.
Lets not forget with out the End User, ORSM, FVR or Modders would have Mods and content for ....................... No one.
Funny how V8Supercars are so Protected yet RD have just got the Converted Blancpain GT3 Mod and are running events in GSC2013 here on the League ??
No one cries over that.???
VF1 F1 2014 Just converted and run on GSC2013....?? No one complains.
Yet this always happens with the V8Supercars.
Funny how V8Supercars are so Protected yet RD have just got the Converted Blancpain GT3 Mod and are running events in GSC2013 here on the League ??
No one cries over that.???
VF1 F1 2014 Just converted and run on GSC2013....?? No one complains.
Yet this always happens with the V8Supercars.
If models are created by a modder, then so be it. I was under the impression that JClaude had converted models from other mods to create a V8 Supercar version of the Volvo and the Mercedes, and was seeking permission to also grab the Nissan to add to his pack of addon vehicles. When I read his descriptions it sounded like he had skinned these other models and then seeked permission to add them to the ORSM vehicles (Ford and Holden) to create a 2014 addon pack. Once again the point of the discussion has been where the Volvo and Mercedes were sourced from (he said that they had to be adapted to reverse the interiors to right hand drive etc). My take on that was that these models had been created by another mod group, and that JClaude and his team were simply seeking to use existing models and add them to the existing ORSM models to create the pack.
If JClaude has created these models from scratch then there is no issue with him creating a mod. If he has simply adapted someone else's work then there is a moral issue there I guess. I do not think that the V8s are a protected species but the modellers who create them are passionate and get upset if it is as easy as simply grabbing another modellers work (from whatever source) and then releasing it as all your own work.
Of course if I am wrong about JClaude's model source then I do not see why he cannot release it, or make the remaining models alongside his Volvo and Mercedes to create a new 2014 mod.
For the younger users out there, the modding scene has been around for a while, but a few years ago when there were people modding for Nascar03, Papyrus sold to iracing who then took to suing modders who had created mods for Nascar03 and threatened them with massive legal action. This left a lot of modders wary about modding again. Now we have modders who convert models from other games, or borrow other peoples stuff and this also causes other modders to simply think "why bother competing with these people?"
If JClaude has created these models from scratch then there is no issue with him creating a mod. If he has simply adapted someone else's work then there is a moral issue there I guess. I do not think that the V8s are a protected species but the modellers who create them are passionate and get upset if it is as easy as simply grabbing another modellers work (from whatever source) and then releasing it as all your own work.
Of course if I am wrong about JClaude's model source then I do not see why he cannot release it, or make the remaining models alongside his Volvo and Mercedes to create a new 2014 mod.
For the younger users out there, the modding scene has been around for a while, but a few years ago when there were people modding for Nascar03, Papyrus sold to iracing who then took to suing modders who had created mods for Nascar03 and threatened them with massive legal action. This left a lot of modders wary about modding again. Now we have modders who convert models from other games, or borrow other peoples stuff and this also causes other modders to simply think "why bother competing with these people?"
I already removed a few of mine as I thought yours were better from the posts on the other thread. There will still be a few more to look at..
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