You're probably right mate hmm...
Ok, let's put your theory to the test, first one:
Yeah... Ferrari fan, definitely.
Seems like there's nothing wrong with your theory, it's working perfectly !
Team Orders in F1 - Good, Bad or Just Plain Ugly?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
Ok, let's put your theory to the test, first one:
Seems like there's nothing wrong with your theory, it's working perfectly !
Mercedes allowed Bottas running in clear air to get less blistering while Vettle following Hamilton were already showing blistering, and then switched and allowed Hamilton to run in clear air while Bottas (now with better tires) was keeping Vettle well in 3rd place. Its sort of load balancing of tire wear. Brilliant.
Not to mention 53 points in constructors as well.
I hope they make it up to Bottas at some point.
For me, they just killed the race fullstop. Took away the little excitement left in the race for some real racing...
Pfff, gone the days of Senna and Prost......
Pfff, gone the days of Senna and Prost......
Huh? The team would've scored the same number of points if Bottas had won. This was just a pure personal slam at Bottas. He will not be allowed to win as long as Hamilton is around. Someone should have asked Toto how many seconds ahead would Bottas need to be before he isn't asked to throw the race.
Back in those days only "team (lol) orders" were - just try not to kill your team mate.
Although... not sure Senna was follow that one too.
Was it in ...Portugal, their first major incident when Senna pushed Prost into the wall. Prost later admit he was scared to death.
Well, In your scenario it would be exactly the same for Lewis if he first or second in Russia, isn't it ?
In that SF scenario... Toto would "look stupid" either way.
You should listen to Prost's interview in the F1 official channel. He explains Senna and him had a few "rules of engagement" and that the mess started when they did not respect them (each of them blaming the other for starting it, of course).
Anyway it would be the same if Hamilton and Vettel were team mates. It would hardly be possible to ask one of them to let the other pass. Bottas is a good driver, but he is nowhere near a title.
What is a real pity in the last GP is that Hamilton has already a large margin. In addition Vettel was not really threatening. So the swap looked very unnecessary. The odds that Hamilton gets a double DNF in 5 races are marginal. That is what made the whole thing ugly.
Anyway it would be the same if Hamilton and Vettel were team mates. It would hardly be possible to ask one of them to let the other pass. Bottas is a good driver, but he is nowhere near a title.
What is a real pity in the last GP is that Hamilton has already a large margin. In addition Vettel was not really threatening. So the swap looked very unnecessary. The odds that Hamilton gets a double DNF in 5 races are marginal. That is what made the whole thing ugly.
shimon.ifraimov
De-activated on request
thats why i miss rosberg, he would never take crap like that.
The problem I have with this move is it seemed completely unnecessary. Hamilton is beating Seb, even when Seb has the better car Hamilton can win the race (sometimes thanks to Bottas). Bottas could have really used the points and Hamilton didn't need them that badly.
Even if Hamilton finished in second he would have gained points over Seb. Mercedes seem to be completely ignoring Bottas championship, and sacrificing Bottas when there's no need to sacrifice him. This year has been a tour de force for Hamilton, he's dominated and this kind of stuff just makes the whole team look either weak and scared, or just dispassionate.
Mercedes are perfectly entitled to do this, but I'd say they've pissed off a lot of their own fans never mind the general fans. I don't think they can keep throwing Bottas under the bus like that, I don't think they'll find another driver that's as much of a team player and willing to sacrifice themselves to protect Hamilton.
Even if Hamilton finished in second he would have gained points over Seb. Mercedes seem to be completely ignoring Bottas championship, and sacrificing Bottas when there's no need to sacrifice him. This year has been a tour de force for Hamilton, he's dominated and this kind of stuff just makes the whole team look either weak and scared, or just dispassionate.
Mercedes are perfectly entitled to do this, but I'd say they've pissed off a lot of their own fans never mind the general fans. I don't think they can keep throwing Bottas under the bus like that, I don't think they'll find another driver that's as much of a team player and willing to sacrifice themselves to protect Hamilton.
Yes, maybe there were team orders, but in the end it was much more up to the driver to decide if they would comply. And I think there are different reasons for that, for example good drivers were not that easy to replace. But much more important is the lack of corporate identity that rules the sport today. There is much more pressure on the drivers to obey the team rules. And to be honest all this corporate identity bullshit is the main reason why I don't like modern F1 anymore. Just read or listen to some old stories from the likes of Berger, Alesi , Piquet... and I don't mean racing stories, but the off track stories. Completely unthinkable stuff for today's times. Corporate identity is the modern form of psychological submission, and it takes every human aspects from everything where it has power. In my opinion the only way to get good (F1-like) racing again is to either restrain the power of big companies in F1, which will of course never happen, or leave F1 be whatever it wants to be and start from scratch with a new format, with small private teams, and somehow restrain the amount of money involved in it.
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People need to understand when they are romantasising the roles of the drivers that really it is simply s team sport about engineers and blokes at the factory and blokes on lap tops.... Dull yes, but the least important parts are the people driving them. Only the fans of drivers give a crap about them. Pretty much 90 percent of the grid could reasonably win in s s merc or Ferrari.
It's like when Lewis busts out s great pole lap, the people with any brains know Merc just turned up his engine. Bottas the most underwhelming driver in this era can win in the Merc and that tells you all you need to know.... I'd put at least 8 current driver's in f1 above bottas let alone f1 drivers cast aside recently... It's a team sport about the engineers.... They are the ones who make the cars able to corner so fast not the drivers...
You're probably right mate hmm...
Ok, let's put your theory to the test, first one:
Yeah... Ferrari fan, definitely.
Seems like there's nothing wrong with your theory, it's working perfectly !
I'm a Ferrari supporter ("fan" it's a pretty stupid word). And I, believe me or not, would think that even if Mercedes was doing their team orders against Red Bull, or Ferrari against Mercedes.
Maybe it's not would someone "take crap" or not. Maybe they simply signed two very different contracts. Ever think about that ?
Ok mate, I believe you.
You have one of those... honest faces.
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The way F1 is going it's becoming a stretch to call it a sport. It's an advertising platform for major manufacturers, they don't have a level playing field, they don't employee the best drivers (just the richest), money can win races, and if you're not on the right contract you can't win races. As with all sport, money is the corrupting influence.
I don't think it's fair to say that all Hamlitons wins are just the result of Mercedes turning up the engine. I think he's most certainly one of the best drivers the sports seen to date. I also don't think Bottas is underwhelming, he had a lacklustre start with Mercedes but I think he's doing pretty well now, he's not only racing his own race but supporting Lewis when needed.
Team orders? It's a joke.
The worst thing in the Motorsport. Let the drivers do their race!
Is it Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, I don't care, but asking your driver to let your teammate to pass like you ask a dog to sit down, I find it pathetic.
I feel for Bottas. he deserved to win the race if he had the pace to do it.
The worst thing in the Motorsport. Let the drivers do their race!
Is it Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, I don't care, but asking your driver to let your teammate to pass like you ask a dog to sit down, I find it pathetic.
I feel for Bottas. he deserved to win the race if he had the pace to do it.
Nice speech.
Sigh.... Nico Rosberg....
Am I the only one who miss this dude ?
Feel like he's been retired a decade ago.
He was racing with Hamilton so very often.
And they both ended with all car parts. Mostly.
Yes, that was a great fight. However, I doubt Toto and Niki were always happy with that situation. Had Rosberg stayed in F1, I'm pretty sure he or Lewis would have left for another team eventually.
