MoerasGrizzly
Premium
You can, sorta, by making the world championship pull directly from the national championships, but in order to do that you need to find a touring car format literally everybody agrees on and... yeah.
Talking Point: Is the WTCC in Big Trouble?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
You can, sorta, by making the world championship pull directly from the national championships, but in order to do that you need to find a touring car format literally everybody agrees on and... yeah.
Enter TCR ^^,
MoerasGrizzly
Premium
Thing is, then the BTCC had to be full TCR as well.
WTCC has continually stopped mattering to anyone since redesigning the rules to make the cars more expensive and snuggle up to Citroen who went on to dominate the series until it has become irrelevant enough that even they don't care about it anymore.
What was the point of skyrocketing costs (almost half a million for a car, lol) for a series that looks like road cars racing to average people? Driving standards took a nosedive along with the series as a whole because no young talented driver would touch that series even with a long stick. The sad highlight of this was the massive whole-field pileup in Macau when even the Audi TT support series had manged to run a good race just prior. Embarrassing to say the least.
I don't think this series should have had the right to call anyone who wins it a World Champion for at least the last few years.
There is no other way for this farce to end than in shambles. I'm glad TCR, BTCC and, to a lesser extent, Formula E are filling the void this series has left. Tight street circuits once belonged to touring cars, but Formula E has snatched up that market pretty quickly and with great success.
Only thing I will miss about this series is the races at the Salzburgring. AFAIK no other big series still runs it.
What was the point of skyrocketing costs (almost half a million for a car, lol) for a series that looks like road cars racing to average people? Driving standards took a nosedive along with the series as a whole because no young talented driver would touch that series even with a long stick. The sad highlight of this was the massive whole-field pileup in Macau when even the Audi TT support series had manged to run a good race just prior. Embarrassing to say the least.
I don't think this series should have had the right to call anyone who wins it a World Champion for at least the last few years.
There is no other way for this farce to end than in shambles. I'm glad TCR, BTCC and, to a lesser extent, Formula E are filling the void this series has left. Tight street circuits once belonged to touring cars, but Formula E has snatched up that market pretty quickly and with great success.
Only thing I will miss about this series is the races at the Salzburgring. AFAIK no other big series still runs it.
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MoerasGrizzly
Premium
IIRC, WTCC hasn't raced at the Salzburgring since 2014. TCR, on the other hand, had a race there this year.
Has any "World" championship besides F1 ever not been in trouble? That is the one and only exception, and that is only the case because F1 simply "is". Even though we all know it's garbage and has been for years, people still watch because, well... F1. No other series is afforded the same lease on life, I'd say the closest is NASCAR though.
They all have gone boom / bust - touring cars, sports cars, rally cars, whatever cars. They always get too big car wise and expensive car and schedule wise for their own good and crumble under the manufacturers that become required. It's no different than the WEC and WRC right now - you end up with cars factory teams will wipe the floor with everyone with, you shove the privateers out the window, then eventually the manufacturers realize they've done what they wanted to do or alternatively, realize no one cares.
So IMO yes it's in trouble, but I wouldn't worry about it.
They all have gone boom / bust - touring cars, sports cars, rally cars, whatever cars. They always get too big car wise and expensive car and schedule wise for their own good and crumble under the manufacturers that become required. It's no different than the WEC and WRC right now - you end up with cars factory teams will wipe the floor with everyone with, you shove the privateers out the window, then eventually the manufacturers realize they've done what they wanted to do or alternatively, realize no one cares.
So IMO yes it's in trouble, but I wouldn't worry about it.
No one wants to watch fwd granny cars that cost millions for no good reason, trek slowly around boring modern flat tracks. I don't see how they don't see this. they just arn't as fun to watch as crazy Japanese turbo 4 bangas doing circles around gt3 cars, 800hp supercars with hardly any downforce smoking it up around bathurst, or million dollar gt3 driven by a mixture of amateurs and pros around spa for 24 hours.
People talk about the beginning of the end for racing when they look at wtcc and formula 1. but i think that's horsecrap look at what the bloody aussies are doing in there supercars they have never been so popular and the racing has never been so good. whats the formula? big power, low down force and interesting tracks.
People talk about the beginning of the end for racing when they look at wtcc and formula 1. but i think that's horsecrap look at what the bloody aussies are doing in there supercars they have never been so popular and the racing has never been so good. whats the formula? big power, low down force and interesting tracks.
Too many touring car regulations has to foot some of the blame. For me there just needs to be 3 or perhaps 4 rulesets, not 12. A production based rule set which would be ultra low cost. A mid level rule set which I guess could be TCR level. A slightly higher than TCR with maybe cars that are a touch lighter and with 100 BNP more and then a top rule set which I guess could be something approaching DTM albeit with cheaper cars and less aero.
TC1 - production based
TC2 - TCR
TC3 - TCR on steroids
TC4 - DTM (like)
TC1 - production based
TC2 - TCR
TC3 - TCR on steroids
TC4 - DTM (like)
That wont work because most touring car sponsors are national companies (especially so in the BTCC) so they wont gain any benefit by racing abroad and wont pay for it. What would be the point of someone like Halfords paying for cars to race in the USA or South America when they don't do business there and the TV audience for races outside the UK timezone would be very small.
I don't see the point of making the BTCC cars quicker either it just makes the cars much more expensive to run and spreads out the field. They have done a great job with the current BTCC, 30+ cars at each round this year and decent crowds back again. There isn't any reason to mess with that right now.
James Cook
Marcas fan
- Too expensive
- Too uncompetitive (regs designed by Citroen, for Citroen)
- Paltry grids of 16 or 17 cars
- A series run on too many unsuitable tracks
- Audience is essentially a European one
WTCC is in the death throes of its existence. I don't see how any manufacturer or private team will touch it from here on in. The TCR regulations make much more sense as an emulation of the incredibly successful GT3 concept.
If WTCC moves to Class One it will essentially cease to be touring cars.
- Too uncompetitive (regs designed by Citroen, for Citroen)
- Paltry grids of 16 or 17 cars
- A series run on too many unsuitable tracks
- Audience is essentially a European one
WTCC is in the death throes of its existence. I don't see how any manufacturer or private team will touch it from here on in. The TCR regulations make much more sense as an emulation of the incredibly successful GT3 concept.
If WTCC moves to Class One it will essentially cease to be touring cars.
James Cook
Marcas fan
It should also be mentioned that the TCR International Series suffers equally from being run on unsuitable tracks (the long, wide F1 circuits). I can totally understand why TCR wants to piggyback onto F1 (and other series) race weekends to raise its profile, but touring car racing doesn't belong at these tracks. The TCR concept is more interesting with the regional series, for example Germany, Italy, Benelux, and the STCC soon to adopt it. Touring cars belong on narrower, shorter tracks.
Michael Watts
XB1 Gamertag: michaei watts
WTCC the cars don't even look like their road counterparts anymore. I think Fans want to see their Sedans mildly modified on the outside racing every weekend, not some Car with massive wide-body kits and large aero wings and canards battling out. Go back to Street-stock type, its working for GT3's for the most part as GT3's seem to be the most popular of the sports cars at the moment.
Paul Jeffrey
Premium
Now that is a touring car....
James Cook
Marcas fan
That was the greatest era of touring cars, never to be repeated sadly.
Great cars, great drivers.
"Also personally I think a turbo has no place on a touring car, give me a 2 litre normally aspirated high revving engine any day of the week! "
Wow, stay away form my R32 ,volvo 240t , Calibra and Cosworth to name but a few.
Touring cars use to be about modified street cars barley hanging onto grip on the circuit, now they purpose built circuit cars pretending to be street cars, doesn't help that many of the base models my Grandmother wouldn't be caught dead in.
Wow, stay away form my R32 ,volvo 240t , Calibra and Cosworth to name but a few.
Touring cars use to be about modified street cars barley hanging onto grip on the circuit, now they purpose built circuit cars pretending to be street cars, doesn't help that many of the base models my Grandmother wouldn't be caught dead in.
There's only one top car of that period. Sponsored by Old Spice and The Sun, you can't get more BTCC than that.
^^This!
