Tactile Journey / Experiment

[Codeias]

The start

So with a P1-X rig in place, a decent 2080ti PC silently running in the background, triple monitors and a HTC Vive Pro VR headset on hand, I thought all was well in the world, but something was still missing from the emersion of any sim I loaded... at first I thought motion should be the port of call to bring things to life more, so with SFX-100 bits 3D printed the plan was motion all the way...

A spanner in the works...

However, searching through YouTube and Instagram, the old Buttkicker Gamer2 kept cropping up (at this stage I wasn't a RaceDepartment member and the genius that is @Mr Latte was unknown to me). So, a BK G2 was winging its way to me for testing / playing with, although not ideal for the P1-X rig it gave me insight and an understanding of tactile, by the way, a BK G2 can produce some decent energy, its like the metal arm it's connected to somehow amplifies the small transducer. It can rattle the P1-X but in a very broad and underwhelming way, it simply wasn't specific or concentrated enough to a specific area, that area being my butt / Sparco seat.

I'd thought about a way to connect it directly to the seat (while still allowing the seat to slide on the rails), but it just didn't seem like it was going to work, I'd also never considered having 4 Mini LFE's on the corners of the P1-X, especially after having the BK G2 connected to it, knowing how the rig just seems to dissipate the energy from the BK G2 I figured it would do the same to any other transducer I added to corners, it did make me wonder why SimLabs would sell special brackets for such things, but thats for another day. So the question was what to do now...?

RaceDepartment

Whilst browsing through Instagram I'd come across a guy posting pics of his rig build, a DM later he'd mentioned "exciters" that could connect directly to a hard shell seat vis its 3M VHB adhesive and within that chat a mention of @Mr Latte on the RaceDepartment forum... so after some reading of the 100 or so pages of the Tactile Immersion thread, the plan was formulated (from the bits I understood in and amongst the pages and pages of tactile discussions)... 8 x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 transducers, 4 Douk Audio Nobsound Amps (NS-010G) and some isolation of the seat with the BK G2 being moved to the pedal plate and get that isolated somehow.

And it begins...

The exciters and amps arrived the next day (thanks to the might Amazon) and were played with on different surfaces to see what they could do. I was impressed with how they turned pretty much any solid surface in to a full range speaker, although this wasn't the purpose of them, it was impressive to hear it work, with the DAEX32EO-4 only being 40W I went with small 50W per channel Nobsound amps (NS-01G), no point in the 100w type with the exciters being so small. They are attached to the seat, as follows:

2 shoulders / wings (Left/Right)
2 at lower back / spine (Left/Right)
2 at bolsters (Left/Right)
2 under the seat (towards the front so as to be positioned near the front of the thighs - Left/Right)

General rig / setup as of 12th May 2020

Rig
SimLabs P1-X with Quad Monitor Stand
Sparco Evo II Seat
3 x Gigabyte Aorus 27" CV27F Curved (1500R)
1 x Dell 25"
HTC Vive Pro VR
Fanatec ClubSport V2.5
Fanatec Clubsport Formula V2, Porsche 918 RSR & GT Motorsport wheels
Fanatec ClubSport Pedals V3
Fanatec ClubSport Shifter SQ V1.5
Fanatec ClubSport Handbrake V1.5
Button Box

PC
Overclocked (4.9GHz) i9 9900K
EVGA RTX 2080Ti 11GB
32GB DDR4
2 x 1TB SSD
Hardline Watercooled
SteelSeries Arctis Pro Wireless Headphones

Tactile
Behringer NX3000D (3.5mm to XLR)
1x Buttkicker Concert (SpeakOn to Banana)
1 x Buttkicker Gamer2 (wired to SpeakOn)
4x Nobsound NS-01G
8x Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Exciters
SimHub

It all seemed very promising...

So after some initial setup and playing with SimHub, I was up and running 6 exciters, Shoulders, Lower Back and Bolsters (all Left & Right) from my 7.1 sound card with the other 2 exciters (under the seat) running on a mono channel paired with the BK G2 at the pedals, 8 Custom Channels in all, on SimHub, not ideal with the G2 and the exciters under seat all firing on the same 2 channels at the same time but it was working none the less, I had 8 exciters and the G2 working.

Instantly it was far better than I expected, these small exciters were doing their job, there was a bit of a rattle at the shoulders from time to time and what I thought was the exciter "pang'ing" the seat shell, but once setup in SimHub there was clearly left and right channels working as I drove over bumps, curbs and so on... with the SteelSeries headphones the only thing I could hear was the sim (engine, road noise etc...) and I could feel the tactile, bumps and gear changes through the seat, it was immersive. Yes it was early days and it got better as I started to understand SimHub a little more and found the right volume in SimHub combined with the right amp volume, but I was just scratching the surface and I knew I could do better with a little guidance...

The generosity of strangers!

I needed help, and the person best to help would be the man who's very idea of small exciters had put me on this journey... @Mr Latte. His help has been instrumental in getting to the point of having the 8 exciters, a BK Concert and Gamer2 hooked up with the NX3000D and all running on different SimHub layers, those layers being complex and custom with Speed, RPMS, Road Vibration, Impacts, Wheelslip and Gear Change, all running to specific transducers and focusing on the Ferrari 488 in ACC (generally at Spa) so we have a baseline for constant comparison and feedback.

The exciters on there own are fantastic and as a budget solution are great, what stands out with them is the 40Hz and above range with specific body parts feeling the tactile / energy well, right shoulder, right bolster / thigh on a curb as you bump / run over it and so on.

With that said though, when adding the G2 at the pedals and the BK Concert attached directly to the seat... the immersion and range from 0Hh through to 200Hz is what I can only describe as overwhelming, but it a good way, almost overload on the senses, in a way that makes you laugh out load... my cheeks, chin and eye lids shaking as the 488 takes a corner at speed, leaving the 488 pulled over on the track and the engine idling, you would swear there was a car parked in the house.... without a shadow of a doubt.

So the BK Concert combined with the small tactile exciters works and works well, imagine the speed building from under the seat, to the lower back and bolsters then as speed builds it continues up the seat where at top end the shoulders are feeling the energy of it all... it is quite simply the missing link between the FFB from the wheelbase and the rest of your body, it makes such a difference to being immersed in the sim.

On from this came the isolation of the seat from the frame, to stop the energy (or reduce the energy) from passing to the rig frame and dissipating. This was the next big eye opener, feeling all that energy from 9 transducer stay in the seat took things up a level.

So this thread / post is all very generally at the moment and I'll certainly go in to more detail with those that would like to know more, there is still plenty to do, the pedal isolation isn't finished, nor is the seat isolation, by doing it all to this stage I can see how important it is to have the energy stay where I want it and not leak out (like a water leak would, given the chance), we want the energy to enter the body and our touch / contact points, not the P1-X frame.

I'll begin to post more pics and the odd SimHub screen shot as further progress is made and give greater insight in to my opinion of the setup working and its failings. This tactile combined with SFX-100 motion would be unreal.

Then came this purchase

Monitors needed to be stripped back to cater for the increase height on the seat with the isolators.

Temporary isolation, some plates are required to cater for the 64mm rubber feet - This is a @Mr Lattee solution and it really does work.

 

[DaimodICE]

it’s just that you have 4 amplifiers in the photo under the seat - then some kind of box - and another amplifier under the pedals - I can’t understand how they are connected - if you have only 8 daytones - plus a big kicker and another kicker on the pedals ....

There are only 8 channels on the sound card - there are also 8 channels in the sim hub - how does it all work? I ask you to share a secret? and even so I don’t understand how you connected two different kickers with different power to the same amplifier? how does it work

 

[AJ McDaddy]

@DaimodICE That's an external USB 7.1 sound card which feeds into the amp. The cables are 1 x 3.5mm stereo jack to 2 x RCA stereo plugs. So 4 outputs to 8 channels (4 outputs are stereo so x 2).

 

[Codeias]

it’s just that you have 4 amplifiers in the photo under the seat - then some kind of box - and another amplifier under the pedals - I can’t understand how they are connected - if you have only 8 daytones - plus a big kicker and another kicker on the pedals ....

There are only 8 channels on the sound card - there are also 8 channels in the sim hub - how does it all work? I ask you to share a secret? and even so I don’t understand how you connected two different kickers with different power to the same amplifier? how does it work

@DaimodICE OK, so as @AJ McDaddy has rightly pointed out, I have an external 7.1 soundcard that drives the 4 amps / 8 exciters. The on board soundcard is then connected to a separate NX3000D amp which is a 2 channel amp with DSP that drives the BK Concert and BK Gamer2. SimHub see’s both of these sound outputs and allows for up to 8 custom channels on each output, I use the 8 channels on the 7.1 output for the exciters and only 2 for the BK C and BK G2.

 

[DaimodICE]

@DaimodICE OK, so as @AJ McDaddy has rightly pointed out, I have an external 7.1 soundcard that drives the 4 amps / 8 exciters. The on board soundcard is then connected to a separate NX3000D amp which is a 2 channel amp with DSP that drives the BK Concert and BK Gamer2. SimHub see’s both of these sound outputs and allows for up to 8 custom channels on each output, I use the 8 channels on the 7.1 output for the exciters and only 2 for the BK C and BK G2.

thank for you answers but please tell me

I understood you correctly:
1. You have a separate USB card 7.1 - this gives 8 channels - which gave you the opportunity to connect 4 amplifiers using jack plugs - where each output went to a specific amplifier, with these amplifiers you fed 8 Dayton shakers - did I understand this correctly?

2. You have one more built-in card - my question is how did you power up your possible amplifier? - through the general linear output of the sound card? or did you power it with a specific output? for example from the center or subbuffer channel, or front or back? Or did you power the optical cable?

3. The most important question - if you connected to your large amplifier - bad kicker LFE concert (Nominal Impedance: 2 ohms Power Handling: 400 watts min. / 1500 watts max.) And bad kicker gamer 2 (Power Output: 90 watts @ 2 ohms Frequency Response: 10-300Hz)
They are different in power - did you connect them as the left and right channels? - how did you do so that one would not burn out from overheating?

4. So you are using two sound cards at the same time in a simhab? - This is true ? So for example, through your small amplifiers you pass the effects of the road - and through a large amplifier, the effects of the engine - is that so ?? ?

My main misunderstanding is that how you connected two different kickers - and in what stereo mode? I ask you to help - I really like your experience and I want to repeat it, but so far I can’t understand how you did it

Thank you for helping me.

 

[vanka472]

ah the good old Mini... mines a stupidly modified R56, it has Meth Injection (amongst other things) more track focused but used for fast road really. Doesn’t get driven much, bit of a garage queen over the last couple of years.

View attachment 373498

View attachment 373499

Anyway, back to the matter at hand... yes, I went with the 01G as they’re only 50W, seemed suited well to the 40W exciters and thinking I’d use the built in soundcard, it’s a handy feature to be able to use should you need to, but I ended up getting the external 7.1 card to tie it all together.

Yes, I have 4 amps running the 8 exciters, each amp driving the left and right of a pair, amp 1 drives left and right bolsters, amp 2 drive left and right lower back, amp 3 drives left and right shoulders and so on... means you can use the 8 channel custom configuration in SimHub.

Yep that’s right, they are mounted to the rig (under the seat) using 3M heavy duty Velcro so easy to take off and adjust when / where needed. I use that a lot to mount things, USB hubs, VR hub, the soundcard etc...

View attachment 373495

View attachment 373496

For the sake of wiring, ignore the built in soundcard element of the amp, it’s simply 3.5mm jack from soundcard to each ‘Aux’ in on the amp, then amp to exciter. The amps come with the cables you’ll need!

As for the 3M VHB on the exciters I’ve found it to be excellent, no issues at all... strong adhesion and no problems with rattle, the wires rattled more, until I sorted that, I do have a very slight curvature to the shoulder wings but not much, I found that I needed to use a household wallpaper stripper type scraper to be able to get between the exciter housing and the VHB plate to be able to press down any element that didn’t adhere from simply pushing / pressing the exciter to the seat. A normal dining knife would do the job I think, I just found the scraper to be thinner in its height. (I hope that makes sense?!)

Yeah for the money the soundcard and it’s software is great, you’ll need to make sure you set it up in its software as 7.1 / 8 channels and adjust the EQ, just setting up in windows won’t do the job, it needs to be setup in windows and it’s own proprietary software. Give me a shout / DM if you need anything on that.

In regards to location, tough one, with 4 I’d probably go lower back and sides (bolsters) it’ll let you get some decent feeling to your base but also give nice left and right immersion. Honestly though, this is your rig, your setup, you place and do what you want to, you can add to and adjust if need be, I’ve found under the seat to be the ones that provide the least tactile response unless they are towards the front of the seat, so more like under your thighs near the bend of the knee.

Hope this helps bud, keep us posted on progress!

I've heard the meth installs are a lot of fun. Maybe on my next mini or if I can snag a GP. Right now, my rig has been more fun than the mini, granted everything going on in the world has helped that. haha

Thanks for the pics, that all makes a lot more sense in my head now. I am gonna go with the same setup that you have. I looked at potentially getting the 10G or the 10G pro, but since your setup is working just fine, I think I will go with the 01G. I know the 10G has better Bluetooth and the pro has a built-in DSP, but they are all on the 3116 chipset, so the purpose should be fine. I think in the OP, you mentioned tuning in the volume on the amp and in Simhub and I think that is important. Another reason I didn't go with the 10G Pro, because it didn't have the volume knob. Have you thought about attaching all of this to a DSP or do you even need to? I know it has been mentioned before but I am not sure about the exact purpose.

3M velcro is a great idea! I didn't even think about that, but it seems like it would be plenty secure, especially while there isn't motion atm. I will also pick up that soundcard as it is the amazon choice and it doesn't need to do anything too fancy. I will definitely reach out once I start getting these on to make sure I am doing it right. I also like the wire management braided things. The only thing that sucks now is that its gonna take about 30 days to get the amps from China, but everything else will be readily available, so that's nice!

Next, I'm gonna start thinking about what I wanna do concerning the pedals. Since I definitely need some sort of tactile there, maybe something like the AST-2B would work well, if they actually provide a little more power or not. I would love BK concerts but that price tag along with needing an amp means it is something to plan for the future. Nonetheless, the exciters on the seat should be a good start! O another question, do you know if there is a shifter specific tuneability? It would be nice to get a little "bump" in the 6 speed...

While all these parts are on order, I should start to figure out the seat isolation process. I know you said you are still working on some details so maybe we can both do some testing and see how it works. I like the rubber solution you got from Mr. Latte, I would love more details on that from him or you, because I should probably do that in the meantime. I love that you can still use the rails and it holds up to the weight okay.

Once again, many many thanks for your hard work and for writing this up and responding to the questions. This has been a big help in moving forward in my tactile journey, especially in the long run of getting as many details as possible running through the rig!

 

[Codeias]

thank for you answers but please tell me

I understood you correctly:
1. You have a separate USB card 7.1 - this gives 8 channels - which gave you the opportunity to connect 4 amplifiers using jack plugs - where each output went to a specific amplifier, with these amplifiers you fed 8 Dayton shakers - did I understand this correctly?

2. You have one more built-in card - my question is how did you power up your possible amplifier? - through the general linear output of the sound card? or did you power it with a specific output? for example from the center or subbuffer channel, or front or back? Or did you power the optical cable?

3. The most important question - if you connected to your large amplifier - bad kicker LFE concert (Nominal Impedance: 2 ohms Power Handling: 400 watts min. / 1500 watts max.) And bad kicker gamer 2 (Power Output: 90 watts @ 2 ohms Frequency Response: 10-300Hz)
They are different in power - did you connect them as the left and right channels? - how did you do so that one would not burn out from overheating?

4. So you are using two sound cards at the same time in a simhab? - This is true ? So for example, through your small amplifiers you pass the effects of the road - and through a large amplifier, the effects of the engine - is that so ?? ?

My main misunderstanding is that how you connected two different kickers - and in what stereo mode? I ask you to help - I really like your experience and I want to repeat it, but so far I can’t understand how you did it

Thank you for helping me.

1. Yes, that’s correct.
2. Onboard 3.5mm ack (green output on card) to XLR on NX3000D
3. Have you Googled the amp? It has 2 outputs. 1 to the Gamer2 1 to the Concert, it has a DSP built in to allow for the correct set-up.
4. Yes, at one stage I’ve had 4 soundcards running in SimHub. You can run any layer / effect to any channel you have setup. That's the joy of SimHub, so much customisation available.

 

[asteroulis]

thank for you answers but please tell me

I understood you correctly:
1. You have a separate USB card 7.1 - this gives 8 channels - which gave you the opportunity to connect 4 amplifiers using jack plugs - where each output went to a specific amplifier, with these amplifiers you fed 8 Dayton shakers - did I understand this correctly?

2. You have one more built-in card - my question is how did you power up your possible amplifier? - through the general linear output of the sound card? or did you power it with a specific output? for example from the center or subbuffer channel, or front or back? Or did you power the optical cable?

3. The most important question - if you connected to your large amplifier - bad kicker LFE concert (Nominal Impedance: 2 ohms Power Handling: 400 watts min. / 1500 watts max.) And bad kicker gamer 2 (Power Output: 90 watts @ 2 ohms Frequency Response: 10-300Hz)
They are different in power - did you connect them as the left and right channels? - how did you do so that one would not burn out from overheating?

4. So you are using two sound cards at the same time in a simhab? - This is true ? So for example, through your small amplifiers you pass the effects of the road - and through a large amplifier, the effects of the engine - is that so ?? ?

My main misunderstanding is that how you connected two different kickers - and in what stereo mode? I ask you to help - I really like your experience and I want to repeat it, but so far I can’t understand how you did it

Thank you for helping me.

One thing that I see that u are confused : simhub allows more than 1 sound card, and more channels than 8. So practically as many sound cards and channels you like to add, you can. Also, big amps usually have different volume control for each channel (concerning your question about buttkickers - not bad kickers-). DSP models go even further with wattage control via software per channel.

 

[DaimodICE]

1. Yes, that’s correct.
2. Onboard 3.5mm ack (green output on card) to XLR on NX3000D
3. Have you Googled the amp? It has 2 outputs. 1 to the Gamer2 1 to the Concert, it has a DSP built in to allow for the correct set-up.
4. Yes, at one stage I’ve had 4 soundcards running in SimHub. You can run any layer / effect to any channel you have setup. That's the joy of SimHub, so much customisation available.

One thing that I see that u are confused : simhub allows more than 1 sound card, and more channels than 8. So practically as many sound cards and channels you like to add, you can. Also, big amps usually have different volume control for each channel (concerning your question about buttkickers - not bad kickers-). DSP models go even further with wattage control via software per channel.

friends, thanks! I got it! - But could you share the amplifier settings if I buy the same amplifier and the same kickers?

tell me what effects did you put on these two kickers from the big amplifier?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi guys, just to weigh in with some help/info....

As for Amp for the Exciters:
THIS is now, in my opinion, the best value option. Powering upto 4 units in a small 5" square box.
It offers ideal 50W output x4 at 4ohms and looks rather racey too if I might say.

These are the newest model from Douk audio, I have one ordered but not expected to June.
Some may not want to wait to then for them to come into stock. As mentioned this brand have many affordable options.
You do not need 100W to power 40W exciters, if anything you can cause more harm than good with it.


Additional Control:
We can apply DSP to exciters as well for those that seek the best levels of control and personalization to how the units will operate with different frequencies. The most affordable option is with the t.racks Mini DSP unit.

Here

This is connected after the soundcard and then its outputs go to the amp used. This uses DSP software on PC to bring a lot (but not all) the DSP settings in the (Behringer i-Nuke & NXD) models have been talked about so much on this forum. You can download its software from the link above to have a look at what it offers.

It too is due back into stock soon and I have one ordered to use with the new budget M4 amp for the exciters.
Personally I think its going to be hard to beat combination for the little money it comes in at. A future thread can be covered on its options and controls. However as it allows presets to be loaded then we could easily come up with good settings for the exciters and share it. Owners then just load the preset we created. Nice and easy if they find it all a bit overbearing at the start and want to learn over time but get good results from the start.


Amp For Buttkickers:
For powering up to the largest Buttkickers there is still a clear winner of an amp to use but its price varies in different regions.
The Behringer NX3000D which many own and use with LFE or Concert models. The DSP is amazing for controlling the operation of the unit and if you compare a well-set range of controls from the amp using the DSP to none being applied like a traditional amp then the user should feel very clear differences. Being able to control the curve for the bass is important for larger more powerful units and achieving their true potential most notably under 20Hz. As shared, the energy we have coming out of this combination with DSP settings will impress and bring sensations for some effects you cannot get with common or budget tactile transducers.


@DaimodICE I am taking a break from PMs as have been helping several people lately, you are in good hands with others and just follow the approach others have taken. Several forum members are all looking into this now as an option to get into tactile and starting with 4 exciters.

I showed in a recent post on the main thread how to use Simhubs own crossover feature.
Its not really covered or talked about but can be an addition to reduce the sound they make and protect them from extensive low bass which they are not really designed to use.

It can be viewed Here, I recommend users try the settings posted and report.

Simhub Effects
The goal is to be able to share effects profiles we like or each creates for different sims and get people enjoying this tactile with very little needed knowledge of audio or fuss.

 

[Codeias]

I've heard the meth installs are a lot of fun. Maybe on my next mini or if I can snag a GP. Right now, my rig has been more fun than the mini, granted everything going on in the world has helped that. haha

Thanks for the pics, that all makes a lot more sense in my head now. I am gonna go with the same setup that you have. I looked at potentially getting the 10G or the 10G pro, but since your setup is working just fine, I think I will go with the 01G. I know the 10G has better Bluetooth and the pro has a built-in DSP, but they are all on the 3116 chipset, so the purpose should be fine. I think in the OP, you mentioned tuning in the volume on the amp and in Simhub and I think that is important. Another reason I didn't go with the 10G Pro, because it didn't have the volume knob. Have you thought about attaching all of this to a DSP or do you even need to? I know it has been mentioned before but I am not sure about the exact purpose.

3M velcro is a great idea! I didn't even think about that, but it seems like it would be plenty secure, especially while there isn't motion atm. I will also pick up that soundcard as it is the amazon choice and it doesn't need to do anything too fancy. I will definitely reach out once I start getting these on to make sure I am doing it right. I also like the wire management braided things. The only thing that sucks now is that its gonna take about 30 days to get the amps from China, but everything else will be readily available, so that's nice!

Next, I'm gonna start thinking about what I wanna do concerning the pedals. Since I definitely need some sort of tactile there, maybe something like the AST-2B would work well, if they actually provide a little more power or not. I would love BK concerts but that price tag along with needing an amp means it is something to plan for the future. Nonetheless, the exciters on the seat should be a good start! O another question, do you know if there is a shifter specific tuneability? It would be nice to get a little "bump" in the 6 speed...

While all these parts are on order, I should start to figure out the seat isolation process. I know you said you are still working on some details so maybe we can both do some testing and see how it works. I like the rubber solution you got from Mr. Latte, I would love more details on that from him or you, because I should probably do that in the meantime. I love that you can still use the rails and it holds up to the weight okay.

Once again, many many thanks for your hard work and for writing this up and responding to the questions. This has been a big help in moving forward in my tactile journey, especially in the long run of getting as many details as possible running through the rig!

No problem at all @vanka472 yes, I’m currently testing (thanks to Mr Latte) some awesome gear shift effects, so plenty f fun to be had moving forward! Good luck with it all and keep us posted and n your progress.

 

[vanka472]

No problem at all @vanka472 yes, I’m currently testing (thanks to Mr Latte) some awesome gear shift effects, so plenty f fun to be had moving forward! Good luck with it all and keep us posted and n your progress.

Will do! Also, I was wondering about the spacer/sound displacement spacers you used on the seat. Something I should ask Mr. Latte about concerning parts? May as well get that into motion while I wait for part arrival!

 

[vanka472]

Hi guys, just to weigh in with some help/info....

As for Amp for the Exciters:
THIS is now, in my opinion, the best value option. Powering upto 4 units in a small 5" square box.
It offers ideal 50W output x4 at 4ohms and looks rather racey too if I might say.

These are the newest model from Douk audio, I have one ordered but not expected to June.
Some may not want to wait to then for them to come into stock. As mentioned this brand have many affordable options.
You do not need 100W to power 40W exciters, if anything you can cause more harm than good with it.


Additional Control:
We can apply DSP to exciters as well for those that seek the best levels of control and personalization to how the units will operate with different frequencies. The most affordable option is with the t.racks Mini DSP unit.

Here

This is connected after the soundcard and then its outputs go to the amp used. This uses DSP software on PC to bring a lot (but not all) the DSP settings in the (Behringer i-Nuke & NXD) models have been talked about so much on this forum. You can download its software from the link above to have a look at what it offers.

It too is due back into stock soon and I have one ordered to use with the new budget M4 amp for the exciters.
Personally I think its going to be hard to beat combination for the little money it comes in at. A future thread can be covered on its options and controls. However as it allows presets to be loaded then we could easily come up with good settings for the exciters and share it. Owners then just load the preset we created. Nice and easy if they find it all a bit overbearing at the start and want to learn over time but get good results from the start.


Amp For Buttkickers:
For powering up to the largest Buttkickers there is still a clear winner of an amp to use but its price varies in different regions.
The Behringer NX3000D which many own and use with LFE or Concert models. The DSP is amazing for controlling the operation of the unit and if you compare a well-set range of controls from the amp using the DSP to none being applied like a traditional amp then the user should feel very clear differences. Being able to control the curve for the bass is important for larger more powerful units and achieving their true potential most notably under 20Hz. As shared, the energy we have coming out of this combination with DSP settings will impress and bring sensations for some effects you cannot get with common or budget tactile transducers.


@DaimodICE I am taking a break from PMs as have been helping several people lately, you are in good hands with others and just follow the approach others have taken. Several forum members are all looking into this now as an option to get into tactile and starting with 4 exciters.

I showed in a recent post on the main thread how to use Simhubs own crossover feature.
Its not really covered or talked about but can be an addition to reduce the sound they make and protect them from extensive low bass which they are not really designed to use.

It can be viewed Here, I recommend users try the settings posted and report.

Simhub Effects
The goal is to be able to share effects profiles we like or each creates for different sims and get people enjoying this tactile with very little needed knowledge of audio or fuss.

I hope we can see the DSP 4x4 Mini here stateside for a good price. Shipping here is almost the same price as the unit which pushes it into the $150 range. I am sure that's still a good deal being that I can't find another DSP for that price, but I do feel like that adds a decent bit to the overall total. Maybe we will find a US seller here soon! Thanks for the information on it though, it is on the list for now!

 

[Mr Latte]

I hope we can see the DSP 4x4 Mini here stateside for a good price. Shipping here is almost the same price as the unit which pushes it into the $150 range. I am sure that's still a good deal being that I can't find another DSP for that price, but I do feel like that adds a decent bit to the overall total. Maybe we will find a US seller here soon! Thanks for the information on it though, it is on the list for now!

I think the closest thing is the Dayton Audio DSP-408 which also supports 4 input channels but it can duplicate channels to offer up to 8 outputs with individual controls applied. One nice touch it does have is the not only working via PC desktop but the ability to work from Android or iOS devices with a USB dongle.

Mini DSP do great products as well but you can easily go into several hundred dollars.

 

[vanka472]

I think the closest thing is the Dayton Audio DSP-408 which also supports 4 input channels but it can duplicate channels to offer up to 8 outputs with individual controls applied. One nice touch it does have is the not only working via PC desktop but the ability to work from Android or iOS devices with a USB dongle.

Mini DSP do great products as well but you can easily go into several hundred dollars.

Wow yeah, that is pretty cool, it lines up price-wise pretty close with the T.tracks one, but it might be easier to get here.

As far as the 8 exciter application, how important is a DSP? Is it something that would totally change the game between a good experience and an amazing one? Or is this something that really helps to fine-tune to get the perfect feeling across the 8 exciters which will be applied to the seat?

I guess depending on that for me, it will reflect the importance of the buying order of it for me.

On another note, I know that @Codeias had mentioned that you had helped him with figuring a good way to reduce the loss of vibration from the seat into the 8020 rig. From his pictures looks like he used a sort of rubber puck stacked (like feet for 8020 actually) between the sliders and the profile. I was wondering if you could guide me in the right direction for that, as that is something I wouldn't mind getting started with right now.

 

[Mr Latte]

Wow yeah, that is pretty cool, it lines up price-wise pretty close with the T.tracks one, but it might be easier to get here.

As far as the 8 exciter application, how important is a DSP? Is it something that would totally change the game between a good experience and an amazing one? Or is this something that really helps to fine-tune to get the perfect feeling across the 8 exciters which will be applied to the seat?

I guess depending on that for me, it will reflect the importance of the buying order of it for me.

On another note, I know that @Codeias had mentioned that you had helped him with figuring a good way to reduce the loss of vibration from the seat into the 8020 rig. From his pictures looks like he used a sort of rubber puck stacked (like feet for 8020 actually) between the sliders and the profile. I was wondering if you could guide me in the right direction for that, as that is something I wouldn't mind getting started with right now.

Its less important, but thats mainly because low bass benefits with more control especially when we push it hard. What it will do is let a user tune the exciters to output better with the seat materials they have. Different materials may resonate at different frequencies, so you can cut/boost specific Hz.

In general, we could also reduce the audible noise they output (they can make materials become like speakers) as we can limit them to only 150Hz -200Hz which have hum sounding tones to them. Additionally, we could better protect the exciters from the ultralow bass and have them operate in a frequency window that benefits most effects and works well within their operating ranges.

In simple terms, we can have them operate in a more optimized way. To some this will be of interest to others they will be happy enough without it.

I think he may have some further updates at a later time, the isolators are not ideal on the 40mm as you can see.
This is his thread if he wants to later show what we did but its combining two types of isolators and trying to get a bit more rebound as well. Also still some other materials he may use, for the seat or pedals that will further help isolate vibes and noise.

 

[vanka472]

Its less important, but thats mainly because low bass benefits with more control especially when we push it hard. What it will do is let a user tune the exciters to output better with the seat materials they have. Different materials may resonate at different frequencies, so you can cut/boost specific Hz.

In general, we could also reduce the audible noise they output (they can make materuials become like speakers) as we can limit them to only 150Hz -200Hz which have hum sounding tones to them. Additionally, we could better protect the exciters from the ultralow bass and have them operate in a frequency window that benefits most effects and works well within their operating ranges.

In simple terms, we can have them operate in a more optimized way. To some this will be of interest to others they will be happy enough without it.

I think he may have some further updates at a later time, the isolators are not ideal on the 40mm as you can see.
This is his thread if he wants to later show what we did but its combining two types of isolators and trying to get a bit more rebound as well. Also still some other materials he may use, for the seat or pedals that will further help isolate vibes and noise.

Thank you for the breakdown, that really helps to see how a DSP effects transducers directly. I was having a hard time trying to find the connection of the two and how they work together. I think for right now I will hold off until I get everything on and am using it. I think understanding what I have and finding the limitations in it (if I even notice them, but I do try and look for them), will better benefit the experience in the long run. I wanna make sure I notice the difference that I will see once I move over to a DSP and how to use that tool to the best of its ability. I know I have a lot to learn already and even just sitting and tuning in Simhub will be an experience.

I will keep an eye out to see what he says/figures out for isolation concerning the 8020 and will also think of some options myself....

 

[vanka472]

Maybe something like this could work better on 8020 since its flat could balance holding the rails and seat a bit better? The weight limit is 800lbs and they are little wide for 40x40, but the holes should lineup fine for the T-nuts. They are M6 but I don't see an issue moving to M8 or using M6 hardware. An interesting thought, given the price as well....

Amazon.com

 

[EsxPaul]

@Codeias would you happen to have a link or remember which rubber grommets you used to route the exiter cabling through the seat? Thanks!

 

[vanka472]

@Codeias would you happen to have a link or remember which rubber grommets you used to route the exiter cabling through the seat? Thanks!

Also what guage wires did you use for the exciters? I think I have some 12 lying around but it seems like too much. I would rather have smaller holes in the long run.

 

[vanka472]

@Codeias Would you by chance be able to share your sim hub profile for your shakers? I am following your build design and would love to get started using a similar profile layout