@steelys AC Servo G-Seat project

[RowanH]

Hi Guys, in the spirit of other members of the DIY community I though I'd share my progress for my G-Seat project that's been going on in the background for the better part of this last year. Others have inspired me and I hope my learnings can help other masochists. (OR) really show you exactly how much is involved and save you a few hundred hours of your life and just get your wallet out.

I've had 3 different major prototypes with handfuls of iterations in them; I'm now on what I think is the one that's going to work.

Disclaimer: This is just a one off for me - I don't have any plans to release a kit, designs etc. I'm happy to share learnings, but this has waaaaay way too much fabrication involved to be an easy open source DIY design. Dimensions, loads, weights, angles all vary from seat and humans and this is super dangerous - I've seen how fast servos can end up moving seat flaps, too high/too much torque and you will break a rib.

But if you're hell bent on doing it, if my blogs/videos can help you save some time/money, I'm happy to share.

Big shout out to: Bruce, Saxxon66, J.R, Buri, Flag, Volk etc - lots of ideas, shared problem solving etc.

I've written up a handful of blog posts and captured some videos of the progress to date. I'm like this --> <--- close to having it all hold up under full load which I'm pretty stoked about.

G-Seats' are freaking awesome; this video should really convey how awesome they are :

My playlist on YouTube for it

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3UGjbNtp5quXxbQ0f8wQI3lJCrvWCFDl


All the details on my current prototype

https://www.rowanhick.com/2020/02/01/diy-g-seat-prototype-3-the-power-pack

And my old prototypes here

https://www.rowanhick.com/motion-simulator

 

[Viper20]

Hey Rowan

What an awesome project here!! I have built the SFX-100 and it is simply amazing. I am thinking of adding a G seat, I was originally looking at the Simxpierence GS5 and then I saw your post. My question is how much money do you have invested in this DIY seat? And also have you had any experience with the GS5 if so how does your diy compare to it. I have no experience with a G seat and trying to determine which way I may possibly go.

Thanks!

 

[RowanH]

Hiya thanks @Viper20

Yes I've tried out the GS-5, that's what sent me down this rabbit hole. They're very different, mine to the GS5.

I would not suggest looking at the DIY approach if you want to save money. You've got the servos (roughly same price as 90st's for 60ST's) + gearboxes + mechanical parts + bolts + the actual brackets/flaps which will be very expensive depending on what access you have to laser cutting/folding services. I couldn't put a price on it as that last part is highly variable depending on what access to services you had. You also need to be familiar with tapping, have a drill press, 3d printer etc etc. If someones got all the skills and tools and prepared for a bit (lot) of frustration then it's a possibilty to repeat this (and be sub 75kg... I haven't tested anything over that). I'll be updating my BOM next weekend so you'll be able to get a better sense then. Easily more $ than the SFX.

It's all very highly experimental so again.. not a kit to go out and build and compare against the GS5 so I wouldn't want to write up direct comparisons against it. It's kinda like comparing a boutique custom built car to an off the shelf sports car. The allure of one is quite different to the reality ($$$ and frustration)

With all that said I've refined my latest designs and sent off to get all the aluminium parts made, should be here end of this week. Have a better idea how this will all hold up on the weekend

 

[Viper20]

Thanks for the response I appreciate it! Again great work on this, I had a feeling it was going to be pretty expensive and I don't have access to a lot of the required tools etc so it wouldn't be worth it for me at this time. The GS-5 is $3k but I have zero experience with them and from the reviews you can't "see" what it does. Do you feel that seat is worth it with the SFX platform or is it almost useless/redundant?

Thanks again!

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Thanks for the response I appreciate it! Again great work on this, I had a feeling it was going to be pretty expensive and I don't have access to a lot of the required tools etc so it wouldn't be worth it for me at this time. The GS-5 is $3k but I have zero experience with them and from the reviews you can't "see" what it does. Do you feel that seat is worth it with the SFX platform or is it almost useless/redundant?

Thanks again!

Definitely adds a lot more than just the SFX-100 alone can as it tricks your brain into thinking you are getting G-Force which motion alone will never be able to give those sustained forces.

That being said I’d hold out for a bit and see if they do a combo with the seat belt tensioner as that adds just as much for breaking sensations which I noticed were missing straight away without it. Or you could build your own, I used Flag Ghost’s design and it was pretty cheap and has been flawless, no harder to make than the SFX-100 and bolts directly to the chair.

Works with the SFX-100 software and you just add it to the telemetry. It only has one motor though whereas the G-Belt has two to control left and right sides independently and uses the same software as the G-Seat so it has the potential to be even better however it’s also 60%+ more based on beta pricing.

 

[Viper20]

Hey Furnace,

Thanks for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated!

Have you heard any word on pricing/availability on the G-belt tensioner from Simxperience I know they are beta testing now and they have the product up on their website but there is no ETA or pricing information that I can see.

Thanks

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Hey Furnace,

Thanks for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated!

Have you heard any word on pricing/availability on the G-belt tensioner from Simxperience I know they are beta testing now and they have the product up on their website but there is no ETA or pricing information that I can see.

Thanks

The beta price was $899 before tax and shipping so pretty good for a two motor unit but not sure if that will be the same as the retail price or not.

In the UK though that puts it around £1000 which again isn’t crazy compared to the other ready made kits on the market but I built mine for £300 all-in but I’m still curious to see how it stacks up when integrated in sim commander and what independent tension adds.

 

[Viper20]

The beta price was $899 before tax and shipping so pretty good for a two motor unit but not sure if that will be the same as the retail price or not.

In the UK though that puts it around £1000 which again isn’t crazy compared to the other ready made kits on the market but I built mine for £300 all-in but I’m still curious to see how it stacks up when integrated in sim commander and what independent tension adds.

Great! Thanks again for the info

 

[Philip K]

I think if the beta price is $899 I wouldn’t be surprised to see the retail price be closer to $1400. The beta price will be lower for testers, I think the gs5 beta price was $1999 for comparison.

 

[RowanH]

Thanks for the response I appreciate it! Again great work on this, I had a feeling it was going to be pretty expensive and I don't have access to a lot of the required tools etc so it wouldn't be worth it for me at this time. The GS-5 is $3k but I have zero experience with them and from the reviews you can't "see" what it does. Do you feel that seat is worth it with the SFX platform or is it almost useless/redundant?

Thanks again!

You're welcome. I think a G-Seat and the SFX-100 is a great combination - there's a bunch of other SFX dude/dudette's who have them and love the combo. After getting mine running I see why- you get the pressure from accel/braking/lateral g's from the seat with the heave/pitch/roll on the platform.

After this weekend I should have a video of my kick ass all alloy g-seat working; given you'll have a clear view of the flaps working it should give a better idea of how a g-seat actually works. If it helps sell more GS-5's for the lads over at sim experience well I'm sure they'll appreciate it

 

[Viper20]

You're welcome. I think a G-Seat and the SFX-100 is a great combination - there's a bunch of other SFX dude/dudette's who have them and love the combo. After getting mine running I see why- you get the pressure from accel/braking/lateral g's from the seat with the heave/pitch/roll on the platform.

After this weekend I should have a video of my kick ass all alloy g-seat working; given you'll have a clear view of the flaps working it should give a better idea of how a g-seat actually works. If it helps sell more GS-5's for the lads over at sim experience well I'm sure they'll appreciate it

That's great! Cant wait to see your video!

 

[RowanH]

One step closer....

 

[RowanH]

Just click the play button watch till at least half way through when I turn the settings up.... ouch !

Have put up a discord for my interim updates here : https://discord.gg/ZVkz2tC

 

[RowanH]

Been working on pulling together some updates on my blog about it...

https://www.rowanhick.com/2020/05/21/steelys-g-seat-its-all-escalated-top-part-working

https://www.rowanhick.com/2020/05/20/steelys-g-seat-faqs

Enjoy !

Edit: Also a good video showing what it can do in combination with the SFX-100

 

[HoiHman]

Looking really good Steely

That amount of travel is insane.

You need to invest in a seatbelt / seatbelt tensioner to unleash the true power of a g-seat.

Currently you are sitting on top of the seat, being thrown around. With belts you will be sitting in the seat experiencing the G-forces even more, while staying in place.

The difference in immersion is very big. I never drive without seat belts anymore in my GS-5

 

[RowanH]

Thanks @HoiHman - I'd think I'd be legitimately scared of having belts/a seat belt tensioner in there.

That said, fear hasn't stopped me yet - I can probably mock up something pretty quick with 4040 just to try it out... pulling a harness out of my track toy might be a new low (high?) in sim rig madness. I'd definitely have to tone down the seat flap movement.

Out of interest whats the maximum movement on the flaps in yours ? (measured from outside edge, home position to max)

 

[Michal Burisin]

Thanks @HoiHman - I'd think I'd be legitimately scared of having belts/a seat belt tensioner in there.

That said, fear hasn't stopped me yet - I can probably mock up something pretty quick with 4040 just to try it out... pulling a harness out of my track toy might be a new low (high?) in sim rig madness. I'd definitely have to tone down the seat flap movement.

Out of interest whats the maximum movement on the flaps in yours ? (measured from outside edge, home position to max)

I can confirm, that seatbelt tensioner adds really a lot - also to the SFX100 which can throw you around a lot . The SFX messed up with my stering / throttle input a lot more without seatbelt - it will keep you in one place.

Also with seatbelt tensioner you won't need to use that much travel in paddles and you will get better g-force feeling, as you will be physically stopped by the belt and the pressure will keep increasing. As I see you have really LOTs of travel in both directions, I think for you it might be MUST to go for 2 servo setup for tensioners.

If you would use just one, as you are pushing one paddle and retracting the other, one side would get super tight and the other one would get super loose. Then braking into corner will be felt extremely on one side and not at all at the other side.

With two servo setup, you could match seatbelt movement to your padles. To keep the tightness on the both sides. I have it set up, so in sway, the side with the paddle that is pushed into me also lets the seatbelt on that side progressively - but to the lesser extent than the paddle, so you get the progressively tightening / increasing g-force feeling through longer travel than you could with just one servo seatbelt tensioner.

PS. keep up the good work!

 

[RowanH]

Ha ! There's only so many servos one can have in their garage. I thought/think 8 is enough I think someone else will have to build one go for gold....

A twin belt tensioner does sound like a cool additional concept however.

 

[HoiHman]

I agree on everything that Michal says.

Mount the belts now Rowan and thank me later

The GS-5 has about 6-8cm traval, which is more than enough with belts. It's not only the travel that counts buy the right offset of the panels to.

Have you experienced with different offsets on your G-seat yet?

 

[RowanH]

Okay I'll figure out a way of doing it. I think some 4040 profile hung off the back of the rig frame should do it. At least a quick and dirty and then think about a swank CNC cut alloy mount (naturally).

When you say offsets what do you mean? home position of the flaps at 0g ? I've tried a couple of things and really want to get some proper seat time to get a good baseline then start adjusting (it's winter and the evenings in the garage are cooooolld) - the biggest thing I want to nail, is tuning at the max sustained corner g's vs the spike g's. I think there's a fine line on getting the right feedback on sustained without bruising yourself on spike g's

While I didn't bruise myself I did wake up this morning feeling pretty stiff after an hour or so in it last night....

 

[HoiHman]

Great, a seat belt (even a static one) will change you entire perspective on tuning your G-seat

Yes i mean the home position at 0g. It really has great effect on how forces are felt and they can be tuned to your body.
This might also be the cause why you were underwhelmed with your try of the GS-5. You are a slim guy and thus you need a bigger ofset.