Sound in Assetto Corsa

Bekim.D · Nov 28, 2012

By now I think we have all seen and heard the latest videos with the Zonda R and the Lotus 49. The videos were captured off screen but can still tell that the interior sounds are very good so far, downshifts especially. External sounds were placeholders according to sound designer

I would like to know more about the sound and what we can expect. Will we see (hear) reverb, backfires, pops, gear wobbles, bangs, environmental effects and what not? So far the sound (judging from off screen video) is already very good, can not tell if reverb is in or not, but please discuss sounds in this thread as I think sounds are a VERY important aspect of any sim/game. This often gets overlooked.

Leonardo Ratafiá · Mar 20, 2013

if either iRacing and even modder (small teams like Enduracers, name any) can come up with decent sound for rfactor, i bet the AC team should stack up to their level

Mr Whippy · Mar 20, 2013

A great deal of the quality you hear comes from good sound processing.

Good samples can only get you so far.

Ie, high dynamic range sound levels, sounds taking real time to leave emitters and arrive at detectors, maybe some variance in speed of sound and volume due to wind speed?!

Those iRacing videos seem to include nice reverb and consideration for the time taken for sounds to reach the detector, which many games don't do (though GT5 does iirc)

AC can do all this, if they do or not is just down to how bothered they are about sounds.

If a PS3 running GT5 can do HDR audio and auto gain control, and iRacing can get such good ambience in replays, then there is nothing stopping the AC team except time/budget I guess, and how far up that is on their goals list is something I guess they could be asked?

If you get an answer full of fluff without any clarity on what it will or won't do, then you can assume that it'll be LDR and no fancy effects.

Dave

Leonardo Ratafiá · Mar 20, 2013

i can't complain about the exige's sound, and i'm pretty sure that they will show a good work in the sound, but as you said, it's all about time, as they said about other features, they take time and maybe in the future they could add some features that in 1.0 won't be available

Mr Whippy · Mar 20, 2013

I don't know really, I watched a few videos of the Exige start up and pull out of the pits and it sounded a bit average to me.
If I closed my eyes I didn't think it was a recording someone had done from their Exige lets put it that way.
I won't pretend sounds are easy to get right, it clearly takes a heck of a lot of work. It still seems though that graphics are what people think about waaay more than sounds... but sounds are really important these days because in a way graphics have kinda got 'good enough' in the last 5 years.
What we are really missing is sound improvements imo. The iRacing sounds should be the benchmark to aim for or improve upon imo. Expecting anything less would be a bit sad really as AC deserves to have the best audio and visuals and physics really

As for future upgrades, I wouldn't hold my breath on anything as substantial as sounds getting re-worked in future. Maybe sample updates etc, but the sound 'scape' as we'll call it is as fundamental to the sounds as the rendering engine is to the visuals...

Hmmmm

Dave

BanjoMaster · Apr 12, 2013

I've been watching some of these iR*cing vids with the much-lauded new sounds, and I must admit they're pretty good, quite convincing in some cases. Can I ask if anyone knows what exactly they're doing differently? From what I can hear it doesn't sound as if they're doing anything 'revolutionary' - I can hear what sounds like bits of reverb and environmental reflection, but it sounds like they're almost 'canned effects', i.e. they're 'baked' into the sound sample in the same way you bake an AO map onto a model, rather than some sort of live sound simulation. I would guess that they've either re-recorded the cars from trackside mikes as they do fly-bys and then built the soundset out of those, or they've found a way to add these effects onto their existing samples. Is this the case? Not saying it's a bad thing either, as like I said it's quite convincing in places.

Another thing I'd like considered in AC's sound model is the fact that you can hear a racing car from miles away. For instance, if I'm watching a replay and I'm focussing on my car, I'd still like to be able to hear the other cars going round the track, regardless of whether they're on the other side of the track or not. Another thing that would add atmosphere and immersion.

Aaaaaaand another (

) thing I'd like to see in AC if possible: Different samples from the front and rear (or exhaust if side-exit) of the car. This may have been discussed before, possibly even in this thread, but it's another thing I've never seen done before in a sim. Could you have a sample for the front end or intake of the car and have that 'facing' forward, and another sample for the back 'facing' rearward, and as they pass the camera they would 'blend' in the middle? There are many cars I could quote that would give perfect illustrations of what I'm trying to convey, but for starters go and find some vids of the SLS GT3 on track if you're curious - it sounds totally different depending on whether it's coming towards you or has just passed you.

Anyway, ramble over. Carry on with your lunchtimes

Oh! One last thing... separate external samples for cars on the pit lane limiter? Anyone who's heard the Vette or the old Panoz LMPs up close as they exit the pitland will know what I'm talking about

RaceNut · Apr 12, 2013

BanjoMaster
I agree with your assessment on sounds. I too, am hoping that more can be done to improve the replay sounds in all racing sims. Unfortunately, there are many people that feel that the replay sounds are not important enough to justify any creative thinking or time and effort. It seems as though the developers get to that part of the game and just say - "Good enough!". It's amazing to me that there are user-created mods available that more effectively capture the feeling of raw power better in replays than the pro's work does. That being said, it's good to see that some progress is being made here and there. This aspect of games could benefit from some increase in competition and hopefully, things continue in that direction.

Mr Whippy · Apr 14, 2013

BanjoMaster, all these things are possible if you simply develop for them.

Ie, the sound you receive as an observer is a function of the sound coming from the car, it's speed, and the distance.

A good test in any sim is to park up a distance away from a track camera view point, and then accelerate hard. Do you see the car set off before you hear the sound? Do you see the jerk during the gear shift before you hear it?

I can't be 100% in the iRacing videos but it appears like the sound takes time to travel around. That is a big thing.

Secondly a car sounds different front and back. The exhaust points backwards and so you will hear more of the noises the front of a car makes vs the back before it passes... that can impact the quality as the car passes the camera... afaik the GT5 sound engine does this and I'm pretty sure you can tell.
Maybe the samples are just re-edited versions of the other sample sets, or maybe equalised/adjusted in real time, but it makes a difference.

Then you have high dynamic range audio and gain control. In theory this is easy to do but not all driving games do it yet... with this you should be able to hear the distant sound of racing cars assuming your car were quiet at the time.
Try it in GT5 (if you have it), beep the horn and the ambient sounds and engine go quieter, then release the horn and you start to hear the ambient sounds of the crowd and engine come back to higher levels (you can see this in the waveform if you record audio out from it)

All these things are possible. AC might sound amazing. But they need to want to make it sound amazing.

But whether they will or not, or have it planned for down the line, is only something they will be able to tell us... and whether they will or not depends on their overall product strategy.

Dave

BanjoMaster · Apr 15, 2013

A picture says a thousand words, so how many words does a video displace? Another wee YouTube link to put some additional focus on some of the points discussed above:

Bakkster · Apr 15, 2013

BanjoMaster said:
I've been watching some of these iR*cing vids with the much-lauded new sounds, and I must admit they're pretty good, quite convincing in some cases. Can I ask if anyone knows what exactly they're doing differently? From what I can hear it doesn't sound as if they're doing anything 'revolutionary' - I can hear what sounds like bits of reverb and environmental reflection, but it sounds like they're almost 'canned effects', i.e. they're 'baked' into the sound sample in the same way you bake an AO map onto a model, rather than some sort of live sound simulation. I would guess that they've either re-recorded the cars from trackside mikes as they do fly-bys and then built the soundset out of those, or they've found a way to add these effects onto their existing samples. Is this the case? Not saying it's a bad thing either, as like I said it's quite convincing in places.

All we know for sure if they require a new recording. Beyond that we can only speculate.

I don't hear a big difference from front to back as if they mic'd the cars intake, exhaust, and other locations a-la Forza. Maybe it's just not as pronounced as elsewhere and I'm getting tricked because I'm used to hearing exaggerated sound, but it doesn't seem to be there. If not, that was a huge missed opportunity IMO.

I definitely hear some kind of reverb, and once again I REALLY hope this isn't baked in but if finally that these effects have been added into the engine. This was one of the big benefits of FMOD sound, which they decided wouldn't work for their system and required them to roll their own engine. To be honest, though, I think the biggest thing is they just sound distorted like it's a TV mic that is clipping (good for replay cams, not for cockpit) and they seem to have some distance effects (farther away has less high frequency).

The transmission flex does a lot for iRacing too, not sure if Assetto Corsa has it.

Leonardo Ratafiá · Apr 20, 2013

maybe we can expect to ride like this

starts at 2.30

Sebastian Wolff · Apr 20, 2013

My hope is that they`ll implement the "manettino" for the 458 Italia....

BanjoMaster · Apr 22, 2013

Slightly cryptic Tweet by Luca on the subject of external sounds:

Luca Sodano ‏@Luca_Sodano

12h

New experiments about #AssettoCorsa external sounds gave nice results. Now I need a bit of bug hunting, but I'm very happy.

Can only assume that this means that he's working hard to design and incorporate some of the features we've been discussing above. Not necessarily because of this topic (who knows if he even visits RD) of course, but that would seem logical, right? Would love to hear some proper samples of what they're cooking up over there...

Simon Kaminski · Apr 22, 2013

He does ...

And I am happy that they are working hard on AC sounds, one of the biggest complaints so far from the community.

Salajutsu · Apr 22, 2013

Wow, kudos to Kunos!! That's the first time i've heard a developer literally work on the very thing that the community talked about, without saying "it's not the priority right now". Color me impressed.

BanjoMaster · Apr 23, 2013

Salajutsu said:
Wow, kudos to Kunos!! That's the first time i've heard a developer literally work on the very thing that the community talked about, without saying "it's not the priority right now". Color me impressed.

Don't know for sure if that's what he's doing or not, just me hypothesising over the meaning behind the tweet. Don't want to start any rumour-as-fact things!

Also, wouldn't be the first time the discussions here have been taken on board by Kunos, if that's what this is; 3 screen setup and revised grass shaders were direct results of some threads here

Sebastian Wolff · May 24, 2013

From Luca Sodano`s Twitter page: "Ferrari 458 GT2 and 599XX Evo sounds (lethal downshifts included) done. Expecting a crazy weekend with MP4-12C and its unique sound..."
https://twitter.com/Luca_Sodano