So RF2? sell it to me :)

[dcully]

So i have all current and old school sims apart from RF2.
My favourites being ACC,AC,R3E and AMS ,iracing is just too expensive imo.
I tried RF2 3 or 4 years ago and i got a refund from steam,could be just i was into other sims at the t time or the fact it looked absolutely terrible.
Either way im curious now as im hearing more and more about its FFB and physics.
Am i really missing out?
I heard there is a lot involved to get the game to look good ?
Ofcourse FFB and physics are most important but i dont want to play an ugly game, videos ive watched recently suggest its no longer the ugly runt of the litter?

I should add that while i can be found online racing 80% of my racing time is being immersed in single player racing so AI is very important to me also

 

[RasmusP]

if limiting your wheel then clipping will happen.

No it will not. The difference is that the wheel base "gain" is a scaler and not a cut-off.
By definition you can't experience clipping from the wheel base.
Lowering the wheel strength will lower everything. Only the game clips off everything above 100% output to the wheel.

Imagine it like audio levels. Game ffb are the inputs, wheel base is the remote control of your hi-fi.
Now for a nice song you want some difference between verse and chorus but you don't want to barely hear anything during the verse and hurt your ears during the chorus. You also don't want to have barely any differences between the parts of the song either though.

So you set the dynamic range while mixing the raw audio, which is like setting the amount clipping and minimum force.
And then you scale the level for your ears with the hi-fi remote.

More clipping and higher minimum force = less dynamic.
Less clipping and lower minimum force = more dynamic.

Then you scale it with the wheel base gain at the end.

 

[Case_]

This, I think, is something people often do not really understand. Way too often, I see people thinking that the in-game settings and the wheel settings somehow work together, so that you might somehow have a non-clipping signal in the game and make it clip on the wheel itself if you set it too high. In reality, that's a very rare thing to happen, and something that shouldn't really happen unless the wheel's drivers are not set up properly by the wheel's manufacturer, or the wheel's defective. Even set at 100 % strength (or whatever the maximum available setting for that wheel is), it should still be perfectly capable of conveying that force. It should normally be possible to make a wheel produce a force that is higher than the wheel is capable of, which means it should not normally be possible to get clipping on the hardware side. The only clipping you normally get is the one on the software side - if the game's FFB output is not set up properly.

And related to that, another thing that I think people often do not understand is the fact that the in-game FFB settings/indicators do not really reflect what the user feels with his hands, and do not "adjust" depending on your wheel or its settings. Thing is, these in-game settings, as suggested, are basically independent of the wheel. The in-game FFB settings only reflect what the game is sending out, and the game has no-way of knowing how the actual connected wheel will interpret it or even what it is physically capable of. So for example when setting the rF2 FFB multiplier, it doesn't really matter what wheel the user has and how it is configured - the "correct" FFB multiplier setting will always be the same for the same car and track combo. The only thing that will be different depending on specific wheel and its settings would be how strong the forces on the output are. But if you are clipping with the multiplier set to 1.0, you will always get clipping - regardless of whether you connect a DFGT capable of some 2 Nm of torque, or CSW capable of 8 Nm, and also regardless if you set those wheels to say 25 % FFB gain or 100 % FFB gain. The CSW will obviously feel noticeably stronger if you set it to the same gain as the DFGT, and there will be differences in feel due to the technology used in each wheel, but the "correct" in-game settings will (at least in theory) as far as clipping is concerned will be exactly the same.

(For the sake of accuracy, please note that this can, however, get a bit more complicated in case of certain games as there are sometimes ways to tell the game the exact capabilities of your wheel, which might then have some influence on its FFB output under certain conditions, and rF2 is one of such games.)

 

[Jens Roos]

I should note here that I'm using an OSW and was responding with that in mind and not the the wheel of the OP.

With such wheel base, power setting is a cut of so for these kind of wheel, in-game should be the way to go.

Had a TS-PC before, there I agree with your statements and it should be more like the T300, similar to OP:s wheel. Sorry for any confusion

 

[RasmusP]

With such wheel base, power setting is a cut of

Sorry to derail this thread further but are you sure?
Which setting do you mean with "power setting"?
As far as I know you have the overall strength in percentage and the motor max current in Ampere.
Which results to ampere = max Nm and then the strength being x% of that.

It's exactly the same as the overall strength of all other ffb wheels. Just with 2 settings instead of 1.

Or do you mean the torque bandwidth setting? That's a setting I don't know well yet...

 

[Jens Roos]

You are in settings reducing the max Amp to half, i.e from 20Nm to 10Nm of max force, but yes, it could be that this is scaled relative to the FFB value as well.

But then again, if looking at for example AC, where the power of the wheel is not known. An example, there I use a 40% factor and 100% wheel setting. For each car I tune it in-game, i.e equally the FFB gain for each car in rF2.

I'm guessing here, the sim calculates some kind of normalized FFB value?

Lets say force output value from the sim at current moment is 50ffb.
I also assume it would be possible to send a force value above 100ffb, like 125ffb
Using the in-game multiplier would then not cause calculated clipping, i'ts a overall gain of the FFB value.

TC-PC, let's say this wheel outputs 8Nm
(100% in-game, 90% adjusted for the car, 100% wheel)
50% x 1.0 x 0.9 x 1.0 -> 8 * 0.45 -> 3.6Nm

OSW, 20Nm
(40% in-game, 90% adjusted for the car, 100% wheel)
50% x 0.4 x0.9 x 1.0 -> 20 * 0.19 -> 3.6Nm

OSW, 20Nm
(100% in-game, 90% adjusted for the car, 40% wheel)
50% x 1.0 x0.9 x 0.4 -> 20 * 0.19 -> 3.6Nm

Above is taken from my setting when I switched from my TC-PC to my OSW, setting the in-game to 40% gave me similar forces.

Regardless if the value sent is 50%, 50ffb or 50Nm or whatever scale used, unless you overflowing or loosing calculated fractions of an FFB output, where you set the gain doesn't really matter when comes to detail or clipping behavior.

 

[RasmusP]

Your calculations are all correct until your ingame ffb reaches above 100% of ingame ffb.
And that happens quite a lot!
Not talking about cornering forces but when you hit a wall in one of the sims, the ffb will always clip.
Sausage kerbs in raceroom almost always clip too.

I'm your calculation from above with the ts-pc and 90% ingame gain before sending it to the wheel, you have 3.6 Nm.
I'd say that's a good average cornering force.
The thing now is, like in my calculation from above, that if you run over a sausage kerb, you get a force spike that shoots way beyond 100% but it gets clipped at 100%.

So overall you only go from 90% cornering force to 100% sausage kerb spike.

With your osw you would also have 3.6 Nm cornering force but when you hit a sausage kerb, you'd go close to 100%, giving you 20 Nm force spikes.

It's a bit of an extreme example but you can now set your 20 Nm osw to somewhere lower and raise the ingame ffb until you find a good mix of feeling the sausage kerb as being a sausage kerb but without breaking your wrists.

I'll provide rF2 ffb telemetry during the next days to make it clearer

 

[Andy_J]

FFB Nerds unite.........

 

[Jens Roos]

Your calculations are all correct until your ingame ffb reaches above 100% of ingame ffb.

I strongly believe the correct way to set up FFB is to maximize the game output and adjust the strength on the wheel if necessary. Doing it the other way round is just wrong IMO. Always maximize the input and then adjust the output to preference, not the other way round.

If the FFB output in the protocol to the device is limited to -100 to 100%, then yes a heavy impact will clip the value, but then it should be better to set the gain in-game so the FFB feels ok and keep the wheel at 100%, not the other way around. Then you will have the widest range of FFB from the wheel you are using.

But if you want to reduce the force from sausage kerb, walls and other hard stuff, limit the wheel to clip the peaks.

I have seen the FFB value in rF2 logs, it ranges from -100 to 100%. But I assume that is scaled from the Nm you have set in the controller file.

 

[dcully]

FFB Nerds unite.........
View attachment 320833

Great read though.

On a side note im well pissed off with thrustmaster, new wheel issues.
Ive noticed one of the mounting screws felt loose ,upon investigation the housing on the base of the wheel that takes the threaded bolt has slipped into the wheel itself and can hear it rattling around the base if i shake it.
Im sure its fine but its bad form especially as the pedal connector that connects to the base doesnt click in place as its intended.
I noticed this upon first day of use as i kept losing pedal inputs.
A small bit of bluetac kept it in place but it wasnt ideal.

With one hard mount to my GT omega apex still intact plus the desk clamp added for now it is absolutely rock solid still but again similar to the pedal connector its less than ideal.

Thrustmaster dont seem to want to know and told me to contact the seller so i contacted overclockers where i bought it and they are offering a replacement or a refund.

While im loving the wheel these issues and countless more im hearing about the T300 failing i think ill go the refund route.
I might just buy a G29 at this stage, not as good but bomb proof reliability, kinda sorry i sold the G27 now lol,local argos has G29 for €250.
The thought if RMA ing the wheel and having nothing to use for possibly a couple of weeks im also tempted to just keep it as is.

 

[patchedupdemon]

your

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Great read though.

On a side note im well pissed off with thrustmaster, new wheel issues.
Ive noticed one of the mounting screws felt loose ,upon investigation the housing on the base of the wheel that takes the threaded bolt has slipped into the wheel itself and can hear it rattling around the base if i shake it.
Im sure its fine but its bad form especially as the pedal connector that connects to the base doesnt click in place as its intended.
I noticed this upon first day of use as i kept losing pedal inputs.
A small bit of bluetac kept it in place but it wasnt ideal.

With one hard mount to my GT omega apex still intact plus the desk clamp added for now it is absolutely rock solid still but again similar to the pedal connector its less than ideal.

Thrustmaster dont seem to want to know and told me to contact the seller so i contacted overclockers where i bought it and they are offering a replacement or a refund.

While im loving the wheel these issues and countless more im hearing about the T300 failing i think ill go the refund route.
I might just buy a G29 at this stage, not as good but bomb proof reliability, kinda sorry i sold the G27 now lol,local argos has G29 for €250.
The thought if RMA ing the wheel and having nothing to use for possibly a couple of weeks im also tempted to just keep it as is.

Stick with the thrust master, it's belt drive and way beyyer than any logitech, 4 yrs and my t300 is as tight as day 1,go for a replacement and thank me later

 

[Andy_J]

Loving RF2 at the moment. It does give the most real sensation of grip and traction etc. And to me it still looks great.

 

[Case_]

The thought if RMA ing the wheel and having nothing to use for possibly a couple of weeks im also tempted to just keep it as is.

At the very least, you should get that bolt out. If it's rattling around inside, it is essentially a ticking bomb.

 

[Gringo]

...so i contacted overclockers where i bought it and they are offering a replacement or a refund

Get the replacement. If the replacement is a dud then take the refund.

 

[Emery]

You definitely won't like Logitech in rF2.

 

[DropKicker]

Im off to buy the game, ,i noticed some ui addons in some gameplay ive seen of the full game anything i should download straight away?

If you don't already have it, CrewChief is much better than the game's default spotter: http://thecrewchief.org/

This HUD helped me remove most of the stuff on screen and focus more on driving as I was racing: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1700842581&searchtext=HUD

 

[Ace King]

One of my favorites: SHQM HUD
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1243928467&searchtext=hud

 

[dajdosta]

You definitely won't like Logitech in rF2.

I've had 2 different Logitech wheels and rf2 gives me best ffb sensation out of Rf2, AMS, AC, RRE, iRacing.
Except sometimes excessive flatspots I don't see a problem with Logitech in Rf2?

 

[Emery]

"<rattle> I <rattle> don't see <rattle> any problem <rattle> with Logitech <rattle> in rF2"

 

[Taranta]

"<rattle> I <rattle> don't see <rattle> any problem <rattle> with Logitech <rattle> in rF2"

1) car specific FFB mult
2) FFB smoothing
3) FFB minimum torque
enjoy!

 

[Henri Sinik]

Im off to buy the game, ,i noticed some ui addons in some gameplay ive seen of the full game anything i should download straight away?

CrewChief
SimHub with this https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/rfactor-2-hud-simhub.18132/
SHQM_HUD from Steam Workshop