So how does this game stack up to Asseto/Rfactor2?

[jacktorrance]

Hi guys,

Reading a lot of good things about this game. I bought Rfactor2 but cant be bothered installing all the add ons. ALso, single player content is missing. Asseto is nice, but mostly non-F1 cars. This game, though has much of the cars I was waiting for. Proper V10s, V12s and some more hirtoric cars. My question: is it worth the buy? How does it stack to the other games? Any news when it comes back to Steam?

Btw, I raced Codemasters f12013 a lot of times, and earlier modes (hate new V6turbos, so havent bought any since) and then I installed F1 challenge 99-02. Will you believe that 14 year old game has better physics than Codemasters F1xxx titles? I couldnt believe how stiff the car was handling, and how soft it feels in the codemasters game. How does Automobilista feel?

 

[P*Funk]

That's actually what I dislike in the sim market. There should be a complete one or something close to that. Hate having to go from one to the other

I don't understand that sentiment at all. Competition is everything that makes these sims great. I feel like the only reason every one of them now has dynamic grip and racing line is because of rF2 developing. One pushes all the others to do things. Some will retread the same ground but that means that you get saturation and so you end up with other devs producing unique content like Reiza's South American coverage (as well as other oddities of motorsport).
I would never be satisfied going to only one source. I am not one of those guys who is happy to drive the Nordschleife every day for the rest of my life either.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Doesn't matter. A sim being complete does not stop others from pushing and trying to do better.

 

[Arne Dopudja]

What Will said. They are not one upping eachother. They are complementing eachother, exploiting the competition. Its like a singer, guitarist, bassist and a drummer, all experts but each one of them as a separate band. So instead of joining together and making a proper band, they hire crappy musicians just to have an edge over the other guy. So all in all you have 4 crappy bands that are in no way worth 50e for a ticket. And each one of that crappy bands would promote themselves as WE HAVE THE BEST DRUMMER/SINGER... IN THE WORLD! Listen to us!

F no.

 

[Will Mazeo]

And the main thing is: it IS possible for them to make it happen if they did better choices in the past. But once you don't do it this end up becoming a snow ball, the more time goes by the harder it gets for the devs team to do it.
I see rF2 and I just facepalm, so many things they could have done better since they started it. Still best sim in the market, but could be so much more.
I hope Reiza will get it right in their next sim.

 

[P*Funk]

Doesn't matter. A sim being complete does not stop others from pushing and trying to do better.

I don't think there'll ever be a complete sim, especially not in a niche community with restricted budgets. Even GTA isn't perfect and its one of the most well funded and complete developments in modern gaming per release.

I also philosophically contest the notion of completeness anyway. I think of course we could all agree on a baseline minimum complement of desirable features but that list continues to expand as time goes on. Just as soon as we get a realistic grip surface and pickup we move on to looking for what new thing was formerly unachievable but now must be tamed.

Since a sim is basically a representation of reality and by its nature incomplete and imperfect the process of chasing realism is permanently incomplete, just the same way all our theories about physics and mathematics are permanently incomplete.

All models are wrong but some are useful. Sims keep getting more useful but then again the interpretation of reality is also subjective and you can attack it from many different directions making even similar attempts at the same problem worthy of their own merits meaning I can appreciate the differences in how many sims model reality.

Complete is a term I don't think really applies to sims, only to development cycles and design goals.

 

[Will Mazeo]

GTA isn't perfect but it is a complete game for its genre. You don't really need to go to another one if you like that stuff, maybe you go for different story, different era another game has, etc. But the game itself is complete.
A sim can do the same.

 

[P*Funk]

You don't really need to go to another one if you like that stuff

Sure you do. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Saint's Row which definitely hits the same notes but from another angle.

A sim can do the same.

Not with the budgets they have. Maybe 10-15 years ago when sims actually had money but not now. I'm talking back when you had stuff like Falcon 4.0 and Microsoft Flight Simulator with some real publisher backing. Not anymore.
That's a market reality.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Try them all, with Steam you can get a refund if you played under 2 hours.
I've had rFactor2, iRacing, AMS, pCars, and stick with AC only, the rest while not bad feel like not the proper use of scarce spare time when I can play something better rounded as a whole package.

 

[xnorb]

That's actually what I dislike in the sim market. There should be a complete one or something close to that. Hate having to go from one to the other

How complete could a sim be?
KartKraft, Dirt Rally and Codemaster's F1 games are pretty much the only titles that even have a slight chance of delivering a complete experience.

Let's take AMS as example.
Spanning motor racing history of half a century we'd require multiple configurations of tracks, tens of separate rule sets and let's be realistic - we will not call AMS complete until it features WTCC, GT3, GT1, LMP, 50s F1, Formula Renault, Indycar, Nascar, Rally and not to forget oval racing at all. Ah yes, and of course a complete lineup of European, American, South American and Australian tracks.

But how would that even be achievable for such a small team with a tiny budget?
So the big question is: When is a sim "complete"?
Or would AMS be complete if it had animated pit crews, rain and the Nordschleife?

 

[Arne Dopudja]

Keep in mind that me and @Will Mazeo are talking about features and physics. pCars has decent physics, a nice career mode, good AI, decent ffb, superb graphics, wet weather, time cycle etc., but it hasn't got ballast, R1 and R2 settings, reverse grids, different formats and it's buggy, AC has strong physics and crisp graphics, but crap multiplayer and crap AI, Rfactor2 has the best physics but no content, iRacing has decent physics, good surface physics, superb multiplayer and functionality but it is very expensive...

AMS seems at the moment by far the best bang for buck you can get on the sim market. - Very nice physics, decent track physics, best multiplayer functionality and netcode, vast car choice, mediocre AI, mediocre graphics.

Talking complete is not having a lot of everything. It's having everything needed. Race 07 was complete - It wasn't the best sim, but you could do everything the real WTCC did.

In AC, you cannot even false start and put it into 1st before the lights go out. Its 2016. It's missing a vital part. Equivalent of buying a 300k Ferarri and they ship it to you with a missing wheel but say ITS A FERARRI, ITS RED AND ITS THE BEST! Never mind the wheel tho, just bare with us, we might add it a few years down the line, but right now, the central nuts are really hard to find, true story.

 

[xnorb]

Having control taken from me on the grid (AC) or in the pits (pCars) is one of the biggest immersion killers for me and is definitely a factor why i prefer AMS for my racing.

Why so many features GTR2 for example had are not to be found in new sims is a mystery

 

[paracletus]

Definitely worth buying - good game with more things to be added before completion this year.

 

[Andy_J]

Keep in mind that me and @Will Mazeo are talking about features and physics. pCars has decent physics, a nice career mode, good AI, decent ffb, superb graphics, wet weather, time cycle etc., but it hasn't got ballast, R1 and R2 settings, reverse grids, different formats and it's buggy, AC has strong physics and crisp graphics, but crap multiplayer and crap AI, Rfactor2 has the best physics but no content, iRacing has decent physics, good surface physics, superb multiplayer and functionality but it is very expensive...

You actually missed the best race sim out. RRE.

 

[Arne Dopudja]

You actually missed the best race sim out. RRE.

I have little to no experience in it. Played if a couple of hours just after the release. I liked it, but stopped simracing at that time. I liked it, though.

 

[Will Mazeo]

Sure you do. Otherwise there wouldn't be a Saint's Row which definitely hits the same notes but from another angle.

Not with the budgets they have. Maybe 10-15 years ago when sims actually had money but not now. I'm talking back when you had stuff like Falcon 4.0 and Microsoft Flight Simulator with some real publisher backing. Not anymore.
That's a market reality.

You are just confirming what I said... a complete game does not stop other complete ones from existing... and then going to them for another reasons such as history and so on....
Also a complete sim could go with Race Room business model to make it possible to be "complete". I wouldn't mind paying 2x more than the packs in RR costs now if something like this existed. And maybe an optional feature like iracing for online racing where you could pay some bucks per month if you want to be listed there otherwise you can still drive online without paying anything. To say a sim can't add stuff present in racing games/sims from 10 years ago it's a bit of bs to me. Devs abandoned some stuff and now it's hard to get them back, that's why I said "it IS possible for them to make it happen if they did better choices in the past.". Maybe they need to look at the long term more.
I'm in no way saying this is easy.

Please guys learn how not take everything literaly then will be better to argue... otherwise it's a bit annoying

 

[jacktorrance]

Agree. Its oversaturated. And every sim offers everything, back in the day you had sims/games for different genres and one of them was a queen amongst them; CMR for rally, Crammonds GP for F1 and so on. There were others that offered other things but complete package was always just one.

Now every sim has 50:50 pros and cons and It is impossible to pick one for many reasons.

This is a very good point. I still like codemasters f12013 because it focusses on one formula. With other games like Forza/Toca/granturismo and the more serious AC and rfactor games the range is so overwhelming I sometimes dont know what to choose and lose interest.

Its a shame I cant buy automobilista yet so I cannot compare. I agree with others that I think the Rfactor2 physics are mind blowingly good, especially the tyre model, but AC is also very rewarding indeed. I just dont like 1000kgs+ tin top racing cars, or underpowered spec single seaters. I also rarely do online racing so I hope automobilista will create single player content.

 

[jacktorrance]

Re: the oversaturation. Back in the 90s. you also had several companies publishing F1 'sim' games. Then one idiot decided to remodel 60s race cars and their tracks and while it took me 2 years to discover it, it was until recently lauded as the best racing sim ever, with the most (difficult) physics wich took plenty of time to tame and control. That idiot tuned out to be a genius.It also showed that while contemporary F1 was still great, there was lots of nostalgic feeling and things to admire from back in da days when I wasnt even born. I hope one day one of the current generation game developers takes it up to devote one game entirely to the 80s F1 for instance, with all the bells and whistles. The in-season and season to season development part of the codemasters series is, however tiny, still a nice addition. But what draws me mostly to AMS is the list of cars. That impressed me, where Project Cars just depresses me.

Whoever made Automobilista, he knows his stuff, and he loves cars and the heritage.

 

[Spinelli]

Automobilista is a pretty good sim/game

Physics
Physics are great in some areas and poor in others (issues with the physics engine - not Reiza's fault). It's based on a very old but pretty capable physics engine (ISI) with some great aspects but also some poor aspects. I hope Reiza look into taking apart the coding of the physics engine and start fixing some massive, long-standing, quite noticeable (regardless whether you are driving or watching) issues.

Force Feedback (FFB "feel", not vehicle physics/behaviour)
Very good in-terms of naturalism, OK in terms of pure grip/slip feel. Track bumps and undulations feel alive. FFB according to steering input feels natural. FFB according to oversteer is reactive and sometimes natural and sometimes very off (could be more an issue with physics though that gets presented through FFB rather than a purely a FFB issue). FFB according to front-tyre grip/slip can be extremely bland and literally non-existent at times - in-fact very often it seems - which forces you to just drive by "getting used to it and memorizing speeds and steering angles" instead of feeling the slip/grip dynamically.

Sound
Good sound due to the sound samples but sound engine and dynamics in general are extremely basic/poor and not up to the sound engine capabilites of even RaceRoom let alone Assetto Corsa and iRacing's sound engine. Again though, in-terms of purely sound samples and while driving/playing, it's fun and "energetic" sounding.

Graphics
I personally don't care about graphics in-terms of the "art/look-at-me" sense, having said that, I still like them in that sense in AM. The GFX are clean and crisp (especially with good Anti-Aliasing) and I just like it. This is purely just preference though; I'm not saying AM's GFX are technically good or anything (very old, basic, graphics engine) but I don't care much about all that.



The physics aren't nearly as good as rFactor's 2's nor Assetto Corsa's strong points leaving AM quite behind both. Reiza does however do a great job of making all the cars in AM drive relatively consistent relative to eachother so that's good and an area where rFactor 2 car creator's could maybe learn a thing or two from.

Overall, it's an enjoyable sim with it's high and low points (depending on car/track and what you're doing and/or trying to do with the car). I recommend it alongside other sims. I think at-least two sims - both of different physics engines (since they all drive/behave completely differently) - is a must for any simracer. At-least one ISI-engine based sim alongside Kunos' physics engine (Assetto Corsa) is what I recommend as minimum. Then maybe do some iRacing-$5-for-3-month-free-content-stuff here and there if you want to explore more in the simracing world (another completely different physics engine).

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

@jacktorrance

Couldn't recommend AMS more for you, especially since you like the cars. AMS doesn't even have a single car type that I'm normally interested but is so exciting, immersive, user friendly and chock full of amazing tracks that the Formula Retro is now on my short list.

I've all but given up on rF2 because of all the fiddling, figuring out, fixing and doing almost everything on my own or waiting years for someone else to do it. Not a problem for technical hobbyists but with AMS and AC my hobby is driving and racing not fiddling and waiting. And I'm still scratching my head over why they would release the Maverick with so much fanfare as 60s OW and especially T70s rot. Updating the T70s or the 60s formula cars was so clearly the better choice because you'd get both a (effectively) new car AND (at least help) address criticisms about failing to keep content up to date. My current policy with rF2 is that I'll try something if I find it interesting but the first problem I encounter I'll immediately shut it off. Unless quality improves radically, however, I'll most likely shut it off for good since the only thing keeping me around was the absense of alternatives and even then I reverted back to rF1 and GTR2 for a more reliable experience at least.

But I digress and I know you're already familiar with ISI so the point of all that is that you won't have that with AMS. Reiza is constantly tweaking and refining AI and graphics and tracks and vehicles AND adding new content and functionality.

AC 1.5 (a turning point for me as every prior version I played less than 20 minutes before shutting it down) and AMS are now AAA and beautifully complementary at least for my purposes because I get my open wheel historic fix from Reiza and my tin top historic fix from AC. Perfect.