SIMUCUBE Direct Drive Wheel With Electronics Integrated Into The Motor

[Deleted member 197115]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...electronics-integrated-into-the-motor.386410/
April 3rd official announcement
https://www.simucu.be/

 

[Deleted member 197115]

That's fine, we all have our priorities and standards we stick to.
That 'assumptions' as you pointed out is based on years of experience with Fanatec and Granite Devices products and support.
May be you can find pictures of DD2 internals to compare with what proudly displayed in high resolution on simucube web site (hint, good luck with that).
SC1 software support is more than sufficient today for big sim titles, but of course if you jump on any racing arcade hitting market, you want to look somewhere else, nothing wrong with that, btw, not trying to play sim elitist here.

Edit: OSW (Open Sim Wheel) ended after first Argon revision created by Bernhard Berger. Everything after that is not OSW.

P.S. Not sure why you are getting mad though.

 

[anton_Chez]

Wow way to sh!t on the project that forced a DD solution from Fanatec....

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wow way to sh!t on the project that forced a DD solution from Fanatec....

I absolutely agree that OSW created this market. How is believing that the 800lb gorilla that is Fanatec will dominate the market shitting on it?

I'm just reading the writing on the wall, no more. Maybe I'm reading things all wrong. Time will tell. The bottom line is that I'm not putting money into a solution when I have doubts abouts its future and support.

BTW this is just common business practice. I've worked for companies on both the winning and losing side of this. Trail blazers are great at finding new markets, but less successful at keeping them.

Heck I worked for a company that had an amazing cutting edge product that was light years ahead of the competition. The industry leader just hinted that they were going to release what we had and all our orders stopped.

That is why I called this a last act of defiance. Even if they have an edge it won't be significant enough to matter.

Remember Tivo? It was great and is still better than the DVR I use today.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I absolutely agree that OSW created this market. How is believing that the 800lb gorilla that is Fanatec will dominate the market shitting on it?

I'm just reading the writing on the wall, no more. Maybe I'm reading things all wrong. Time will tell. The bottom line is that I'm not putting money into a solution when I have doubts abouts its future and support.

Same way as niche manufacturers like HE owns sector that is interested in the highest quality and realism, while others go for CSP.
Sim racing is niche gaming genre, no doubt Gran Turismo and Forza jumpers will be all over Fanatec esp. with console support, for iRacing, AC, rFactor2, and ACC when it takes off, I am not so sure, two solutions can perfectly coexist depending on target audience.
BTW, to clear misunderstanding, OSW or Simucube do not require special driver as some might think, as long as game supports generic DirectInput FFB device, it's all good.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Leo Bodnar is in no danger. Their market is professional sim systems. Likewise Simexperience has it's own market. Heusinkveld similarly has it's market in professional systems and has created some products down market.

Granite state is diversified and successful in other markets. It will be in this market only as long as it makes sense for them. Unless it's a pet project of someone with clout.

 

[RCHeliguy]

BTW I've seen the pet project thing work too. I once got an RC Heli that was a limited production of 50. The people who designed it did it on the side out of passion. They supported it well and even designed another limited production model later.

Please don't read anything I said as a personal vendetta against GD. I think that competition is great and I really do hope that they survive and prosper putting pressure on Fanatec, just like Fanatec put back on them. I doubt that they would have a wireless option releasing right now if Fanatec hadn't pushed that feature.

Unfortunately ideal competition is rarely the case these days.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I doubt that they would have a wireless option releasing right now if Fanatec hadn't pushed that feature.

They all look after each other, wireless wheel plates is not something completely new, we had BT based DIY solutions for a long time, so it's not Fanatec invention. I had one a few years back myself.
Plus by looking at the current state of Granite wireless option, seems like it was in development for quite a long time, way before Fanatec announced theirs as they not only have it available for purchase now but also have option for new and old SimuCube. https://granitedevices.com/wiki/Sim...Md5xJby-cW75SUh-S85lsZ1nq2Z1x5liEuJYd6D41Pc2k
From German forums I am pretty sure talks about that started long time ago.
But as long as it's not arms race, who cares, competition is better for us, consumers.
I don't envy people who needs to make decision now, I'll probably sit on my Argon for a little longer, seems like it's already outlived 'vastly superior', future proof, modular SC1. No fear of GD dropping support for it either, as it's just industrial servo used in other apps and not designed specifically for sim racing.

 

[moonlooker]

The game developer can optimize the FFB signal according to different devices. The steering wheel like fanatec etc has relatively stable hardware. but OSW is open and free, How do game developers do it?
Now we have a lot of choices. Follow your heart and buy what you like.

 

[anton_Chez]

They just need to implement support for Direct Input devices. They don't need to do ANYTHING else. If the FFB sucks, we can still play with some of the settings in Simucube software to get the feeling decent. There is ZERO excuse for a game developer not to support such a basic function as direct input. It baffles me how so many devices can be listed as 'supported' yet the most basic function relating to all of them is missing. Multiple devices, direct input. That is all.

 

[RaceNut]

They just need to implement support for Direct Input devices. They don't need to do ANYTHING else. If the FFB sucks, we can still play with some of the settings in Simucube software to get the feeling decent. There is ZERO excuse for a game developer not to support such a basic function as direct input. It baffles me how so many devices can be listed as 'supported' yet the most basic function relating to all of them is missing. Multiple devices, direct input. That is all.

True enough and I agree but, some developers coming over from the console side may find it too difficult to adapt to, especially since the market is so much smaller. Even if they consider themselves as making a Simulation, there is still some gap between consoles and PC in that area and it's highlighted by the lack of controller support.

 

[RaceNut]

Wow way to sh!t on the project that forced a DD solution from Fanatec....

Actually, SimXperience had a lot to do with it too. I recall a heated debate between Berney and Thomas in the iRacing forums where, Thomas through down the gauntlet and promised to make a product that would surpass the AccuForce and, it appears that they are very close to doing so.

Will the Podium series be reliable and will it have comparable tuning features? The hardware performance should surpass the AccuForce comfortably but, the tuning features are where AF really stands out imo. Will SimXperience respond with a new offering?

 

[RobertR1]

True enough and I agree but, some developers coming over from the console side may find it too difficult to adapt to, especially since the market is so much smaller. Even if they consider themselves as making a Simulation, there is still some gap between consoles and PC in that area and it's highlighted by the lack of controller support.

That's one of the main motivations behind Simucube 2. A fully closed system that's easy for any dev to adopt.

As for any high end sim, they'll continue to support OSW's as they do already and future versions get back ported for compatibility via Simucube/Granite team.

 

[RaceNut]

Same way as niche manufacturers like HE owns sector that is interested in the highest quality and realism, while others go for CSP.
Sim racing is niche gaming genre, no doubt Gran Turismo and Forza jumpers will be all over Fanatec esp. with console support, for iRacing, AC, rFactor2, and ACC when it takes off, I am not so sure, two solutions can perfectly coexist depending on target audience.
BTW, to clear misunderstanding, OSW or Simucube do not require special driver as some might think, as long as game supports generic DirectInput FFB device, it's all good.

It's true, basic HID support is enough to make things work but, the tweaking under the hood needed to make it work really well is not something everyone wants to do. A lot of people have grown tire of the constant tweaking and just want something that works, but works well. Fanatec support may make a significant difference there.

I think SC2 will be very good but, I remain skeptical that the results will be much better than SC1 in actual FFB. From my conversations with Mika, I get the impression that they don't value telemetry-driven effects although, they do want to integrate irFFB into their system. From my testing, I didn't find irFFB to be very effective with SC1. It's certainly not as effective as SimCommander's solution but, perhaps GD can optimize results to get there.

 

[RCHeliguy]

This part of the equation does interest me quite a bit. I love Dirt Rally and am looking forward to Dirt Rally 2.0. I keep hearing how Accuforce people are able to get great FFB using the foundation layer and that OSW users are not happy at all. (Although I heard a recent release may have impacted this) This is one reason I'm hoping Fanatec offers that ability. My thoughts are that if you don't like a feature, you simply don't use it, but it is there if you want it.

It appears that Fanatec will have hardware with the feedback force of OSW solutions and if they have a combination of "works out of the box" plus strong configuration options like Accuforce, that would give it an edge on both systems.

In some ways this could be a perfect storm. The market is ripe for this level of integration and Fanatec has been able to look at what everyone else has done.

 

[RaceNut]

That's one of the main motivations behind Simucube 2. A fully closed system that's easy for any dev to adopt.

As for any high end sim, they'll continue to support OSW's as they do already and future versions get back ported for compatibility via Simucube/Granite team.

I'm referring to basic Windows HID controller support. Titles such as WRC7 don't have that so one needs to use a work-around and as we know, that complicates things even more and can add more latency r other issues.

I get the advantages of have a unified system like that of SC2 where game support should improve. The only title that offers specific OSW support by way of a preset is rFactor2 and, that did solve some issues with regard to overly strong bump effects and auto-steering-rotation settings (soft-lock). Most other titles need work-arounds to get best results with any OSW wheel.

Having those presets for SC2 in more titles should also benefit SC1 users and, may even be useful with other DD-wheels. How that correlates to the Fanatec presets remains to be seen but, their ecosystem has some unique traits that may not translate in the same way.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Never felt that setting up OSW for specific game is that different than Logitech or Thrustmaster.
How Fanatec can make that easier, by reading mind?

 

[anton_Chez]

All I was saying is that the OSW project has helped push the whole direct drive scene and market forward. I don't see current users just leaving it behind so they can play Forza with no issues.

 

[RCHeliguy]

All I was saying is that the OSW project has helped push the whole direct drive scene and market forward. I don't see current users just leaving it behind so they can play Forza with no issues.

I certainly don't expect current OSW users to suddenly abandon ship. It's a good system and many people have it working beautifully for their needs.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Found the list of supported titles on sim-pli.city site (Oli).
It is definitely not exhaustive as I don't see Wreckfest for instance or ETS, still a useful reference.
https://sim-pli.city/products/sw7c-plus-7nm-direct-drive-wheel

Assetto Corsa, Assetto Corsa Competizione, Automobilista, BeamNG.drive, Dirt Rally, Dirt Rally 2.0, Dirt 4, F1 2018, iRacing, Live for Speed, Project CARS, Project CARS 2, RaceRoom Racing Experience, rFactor, rFactor 2, Richard Burns Rally, Stock Car Extreme

@anton_Chez, while not supported out of the box, all Forzas on PC work with OSW via EmuWheel

 

[RCHeliguy]

Here is a definite win for OSW solutions. They also mention having wireless options.