SimHub ShakeIt Bass Shakers custom 4 corner tire slip

blekenbleu

SimHub+Arduino hacker
Premium
My sim driving is Assetto Corsa with an office chair and wheel stand.
Without a harness keeping one's back contacting them,
back transducers seem of arguable benefit.

Already using SimHub,
having unused motherboard 7.1 sound and obsolete Denon surround receiver,
a ShakeSeat pad (no longer available) was ordered because:
An equivalent can be made using Dayton pucks
with e.g. 40cm square zippered cushion covers and EVA foam floor tiles.
SimHub's ShakeIt tire slip effect does not consider tire loading.
For example, an inside tire may be fully unloaded during cornering,
with very high slippage, but no perceived sensation in actual driving.
Haptic slip effects ideally change frequency based on slip
but change amplitude based on load,
which was impossible using only earlier SimHub support.

This SimHub profile attempts to approximate track sensations from street tires,
when securely harnessed in a fitted racing seat.
Usefulness of such haptic feedback may vary widely among users:
This haptic wheel slip feedback was IMO less useful
than deceleration and cornering simulation from harness tensioners,
but reduced a sense of "something missing".

Unambiguously directional haptic cues
wants direct stimulation of body parts,
e.g. left and right thighs, lumbar and/or sit bones.

Original 4-puck SRS ShakeKit cushion is no longer available,
but equivalent DIY PuckSeat assembly is not very hard.
SRS_EVA.jpg

Sensations to be simulated here:
  • squeal for small slippage, transitioning to moaning with more slippage,
  • then shuddering near breakaway,
    with intensities proportional to tire loadings
Implementation augments SimHub Wheels SLIP effect
with Custom Effects
  1. latitudinal and longitudinal acceleration properties
  2. loaded tire slips, products of tire slip properties times accelerations
Again, because load modulates slip in telemetry,
heavily loaded small slip could not be generated
as strong high frequency tactile effect
until SimHub added Forced frequency option.

Accelerations were originally estimated from speed and yaw changes,
serving as G force proxies.
Earlier SimHub versions sampled speed and yaw
at a lower rate than Assetto Corsa telemetry waas updated,
resulting in some changes 2x others, which code here detects and mitigates.

Loaded tire slip corner effects use products of tire slips and G force proxies:

A complete SimHub ShakeIt profile is available on GitHub.
It is now IMO obsolete.

SimHub slip telemetry in this profile is not portable among all games;
specifically, iRacing provides no slip telemetry.

An upgraded ShakeIt profile based on slip/grip ratio is recommended:
  • requires less car/track/sim-specific tweaking
  • delivers haptics better correlated with tires reaching grip limit,
    based on slip/grip ratios.
  • Improved grip estimation combines lateral and longitudinal
    and is modulated by heave
 
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I’d love to do a 3 way comparison of both your options compared to standard effects to see exactly how each wheel is operating based on its amplitude and output.
Think this is possible but for me if you both can apply your methods for a chosen car in ACC I can certainly demonstrate the tactile being generated.
Please consider a car / track combo for making such possible
For a very quick comparison, both will work in RRE, it's free and the silhouette at portimao (also free) would work, else I would have to do some testing in ACC which is a sim I don't usually run although I own it, which would take a bit of time and values might not be relevant/available in that sim.

Hmmm.
I could make an overlay with a direct comparison of wheel slip in game to my shaker output.
 
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This is for the F4 at Zolder. Red trace is my shaker OP. Blue trace is wheelslip from simhub.
As you can see My trace is less noisy as signals without sway/surge are suppressed, but has a strong correlation to slip as thats the intent. This is repeatable against the replays I supplied earlier for raceroom. Shaker vs Simhub Wheelslip

RangeyShakersVs Simhub Wheelslip.jpg
 
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a 3 way comparison of both your options compared to standard effects
Here are Live effects for 3765 to 4498 of @RangeyRover's BMW M3 Sport Evo @ Zolder - leaping curbs
SimHub default WHEELS SLIP:
WheelSlip.gif

WHEELS SLIP with (IMO more reasonable) Gamma 3.0 and gain 1/100:
Gamma3.gif

@RangeyRover Slip Conditioned by Surge, Sway:
RR.gif

blekenbleu loaded wheel slip:
loaded.gif
 
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Here me out:

Clearly one of the issues being discussed is that "certain effects" on some sims have very different sensitivity levels to others.

So the point being raised here about the "input gain" level of the effect from the telemetry being very strong on eg: Wheelslip in ACC. Therefore if using the standard 100% gain level, it would require a much lower "effect layer volume" to be applied to the output of the effect. This is then also controlled by the "global gain" (top left of Simhub) regards the soundcard's volume.

Now, let me ask....

Have either of you looked into or compared with a sim what the generated output for the effect is when?

Using the same global volume for the soundcard.

A) 100% input gain is used but in combination with the lowest effects volume at 1%
B) 1% input gain is used but in combination with the highest effects volume at 100%

Sure we could possibly use some in-game or other telemetry tools to see the effects "telemetry activity". You both perhaps are also looking into the "Live Effects" to see its activity within Simhub as well.

Yet what you are not doing guys, is taking into account what "audio" is actually being generated. Then determining from this, what can be felt from that (on the hardware being used) based on the performance of the hardware and the Hz being used for the effects themselves.

This is one reason why I monitor the actual audio, not just the telemetry generated.
Yes it would be excellent to have improved operation of specific effects "telemetry" generated but we need to also keep in mind how/what from the tone generation is inline with the intended hardware.
 
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Perhaps, something you are not factoring in regards to high gain levels, is that some effects, we may actually want a high telemetry input and use this also with a high effects level output (100% & 100%) because maybe we are applying very low Hz and these need a lot more energy to feel best. So I think we need to consider what the intended "role" for the effect layer is regards what settings we apply to it.

On the other hand, if you are using the common 30-80Hz which the transducer/exciter does not struggle with generating then yes this is going to need more controlled volumes.

One of my plans, more in the long term was to monitor the output generated from different sims using the same effects settings to help determine how specific effects may require different usage of the input/output levels.

However, a user can quickly discover how on one sim certain settings are fine yet on another they are much too high based on how each sim's telemetry input gain may vary.


Regards the solutions you both are experimenting with.
I can only ask again, to prevent ANY confusion, to share them here with the settings you use and attach them as a .txt

I can then help to show you from the "generated audio perspective" what they do and how they are active for each wheel or spatialization used.
 
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Yet what you are not doing guys, is taking into account what "audio" is actually being generated.
I would hope that SimHub does NOT generate different audio in different games for the same input property values; that would suck.
My intent is that users should always adjust effect levels for properties that feed into audio-generating effects, to compensate for differences among cars and games,
using Response Filter Gamma and Gain settings.

I expect users to tweak audio settings according to preferences and transducers being driven,
which is arguably separable from property values being converted to tactile effects.

Once I am well enough for live sim testing of changes to the GitHub profile (to support more games and effects), it will be updated.
 
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Yet what you are not doing guys, is taking into account what "audio" is actually being generated.
Why would we? The work being done is about the detection of significant events through telemetry.
SimHub handles the response (crudely) by the output of an amplitude modulated fixed tone to whatever device is used for feedback.
Edit: Actually this isn't true, frequency can be modulated but only by intensity of signal.
I would be enormously happy if there was a way to modulate the frequency or wave type or a custom wave type, but SimHub does not offer that facility.
In order to make up for this shortfall I personally also add LFE sound from the game to each corner, which is very rewarding, especially over kerbs, as the amplitude and frequency change based on speed, a feature I would love to see in SimHub.
Audio analysis of my setup versus someone else's is going to vary wildly depending on their setup. Mine is entirely 5-80Hz approx Dayton BST-1, others may be higher frequency exciters of 800-900Hz.
In short, the work I'm doing is for detection only. lf you have something that will help the audio quality post detection I'm all for it, and would love to see different options for Audio output.
As for the txt thing, is it difficult to download from the links I provided?
 
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I was only trying to help in offering you guys the opportunity to see the approaches you are taking together and to let people see both of those operating against standard effects. My intention was to show the 4 wheel activity with each solution simultaneously. This then uploaded as a YT video and it can then be viewed or compared at different speeds.

The reason I requested you both share your profiles for these effects was to be certain you were offering them with the settings applied that you would want used for the comparison. Its also much easier for others here to just use the .txt method.

The quality of effects make a huge difference, however, we do not have to rely on single effect layers to represent an effects output. Something like wheelslip needs to better apply the bass dynamic range over the lowest-highest telemetry values.

What I wanted to help highlight is just how much or useful these approaches you are working on are.I am not that convinced individual wheel/tyre felt sensations are as important as the quality of effect generated. The user really only needs to be able to detect low-high slip values and have this applied to the front and rear to feel/detect oversteer/understeer.
 
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OK, no issue with that.
Mine are for RRE only. I've checked ACC physics telemetry and my approach does not work in that sim.
As I don't run it, I don't intend to invest much effort in fixing that situation up.
I can confirm that the last one blekenbleu linked didn't work in RRE, but I'm sure I can fix that up to work as he intended.
I'll have a look at it tonight, but you would have to run RRE to make a video.

The usefulness of the approach is subjective and depends on the user and their equipment. Different approaches are just that, different. I prefer an earlier warning of slip and am prepared to have unloaded tyres slip detected where blekenbleu prefers to put that unloaded tyre slip information to other exciters.

Attached is my shaker profile for RRE I'd suggest F4 or F3 for a decent comparison to simhub wheelslip effects.
 

Attachments

  • Rangey Shakers 09-09-21.siprofile.txt
    16.1 KB · Views: 143
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Appreciate you posting, noticed I am very low on HD space so will need to try to make room to squeeze in RRE.

It would be excellent though if you guys see the need and or/could maybe adapt your skills to offer sim-specific wheel slip custom effects. So please consider helping others to enjoy these for the popular sims.

Giving people different options, in these custom effects opertations.
With that in place then it lets people like myself or others work on making nice sensations to suit both affordable and also higher-end tactile installations.
 
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  • Deleted member 1449502

Thanks for posting RangeyRover! I couldn't get it to respond to ACC like you mentioned but still had to try anyway lol. Really appreciate you taking the time to share what you've been working on, I would love it if you could have a look at doing something for ACC. If there is anything I can do to help such as providing data or feedback or anything else I'd love to be able to contribute in any way
 
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  • Deleted member 1449502

If someone makes available an ACC SimHub track lap recording,
particularly including at least one full braking wheel lockup,
then we could sort what telemetry works for ACC.
Hi blekenbleu, thanks for the reply. Could you provide me any links to help guide me on how to do this? Is it just an overlay?
 
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  • Deleted member 1449502

Think i figured it out, never noticed the record button up top. I drove on Suzuka as it had plenty of turns for slip and lockup. The JSON file is too large to post here 137mb. Does that sound right?

I uploaded it to my gdrive, here is the link

Thanks for doing this
 
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  • Deleted member 1449502

Awesome! please let me know if you want more replays to work with or if you need more of any specific event recorded
 
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