Sim Racing with a physical handycap

[Daniel R.]

Hello dear Sim Racers and those who want to have a go on it,

first of all i´m not a person with physical restrictions.

I´m just a normal guy that loves simracing as much as maybe everybody that reads this right now.
It´s my favorite hobby by far and something that gives me huge pleasure everytime i´m in the (virtual) car.

What came to my mind some days ago was the question how people, that, f.e., can´t move there legs, use as hardware for simracing?

Are there any people here that have a disability that forces them to do sim racing with different technical solutions or maybe even aren´t able to do sim racing at all, since there is no appropiate hardware available for them or the hardware is just to expensive?

To be honest, i would found it challenging (from a mechanical side of view) and very exciting to create a hardware solution that enables people to do sim racing with physical restrictions.
There is so much cool technology available to really push the boundarys a bit there!

So what do you think about it?
What are your needs?

Cheers Daniel

 

[Daniel R.]

Hi guys,

in an earlier post i wrote/asked:
The overall question is, why should muscle-memory in your foot not also work with your fingers ;-) !?

The only way to see if this is a benefit is to try it!!
Therefore i did a very Quick and very Dirty Mock-Up on one of my wheels. It´s basically a button box that features two analouge paddles (throttle and clutch) and a small integrated loadcell for brake.

What you see in the pictures is the result of 6h of work with some chipboard, screws, hot glue and electronics stuff i had laying around. The analouge axis is realized via so called Flex Sensors. I had them over here for a different project and they where the easiest way to create a kind of paddle.
On the backside of the rim, so where my right index finger is located when holding the wheel i implemented a small loadcell.

This then means that i have loadcell pedal technology on my fingertips!

All that is a kind of package i put between the wheel and a 3d printed adapter for my Thrustmaster wheel.
I normally use these adapters to be able to use aftermarket wheels.

I uploaded a short video to show how it works in windows controller tab.

I also already did a couple laps with a Dallara DW12 Indycar in Rfactor2. I will do this again and also upload a video then.

To be honest, it was relatively easy for me to get used to the brake. It took maybe 2 laps to get it in my head.
First, obviously, i had to force myself to not use my legs. After a while it felt normal just working with my hands.
But of course it would need some time to really be sensible enough wih my finger.
I plan also, with this mock up and a second one i wanna try, to participate in a club race over here @ RD.

It was kind of a mind opening experience already for me as a person without handicap.

What you think?

Cheers Dan

 

[cirris]

Hi cirris, thanks for your post!
So you have a similar handicap as @The Iron Wolf , right?
It´s really cool to hear that simracing gives you a benefit for real life. I think it´s hugely underrated what benefits simracing has for everyone. But that´s a different topic.
From your handicap and what you wrote i assume that you use consumer pedals of some sort not loadcell pedals?
Since you wrote your left side is weak.
With hyperspasticity you mean also kind of uncontrolled movement as The Iron Wolf?
So difficulty with sensible input for tail braking or throttle?

Cheers Dan

Funnily enough I recently went a bit crazy and picked up some heusinkveld sprints. I'm upgrading from some old Fanatec CSR Elite pedals and from my limited use I'm already gaining pace. My rig is out of commission for the next few weeks so I cant test further .

I only am affected with spasms under certain circumstances. However when I focus and get in the zone so to speak it becomes less of an issue. The biggest hurdle for me is certainly pedal input. If anything these pedals are certainly going to give my legs a workout! I may be at a physical disadvantage but from my perspective, removing variables like unreliable/inconsistent gear makes the experience and times (less important to me) so much better. Realism is what I'm after.

Cheap pedals suck even for me!

 

[Daniel R.]

There is always a way to solve things. It´s just somebody needed to try/do it.
I think this guy was also featured ones in a episode of "The Grand Tour". Pretty impressive.
Anyway, would also be no technical problem to recreate that solution in a simulator.

What i was wondering is, if somebody knows, is there a product on the market that features a loadcell-brake-paddle on the steering wheel?
I´m currently, just to try, implementing one on one of my wheels. Together with two analouge axis for throttle and clutch and some buttons.

The overall question is, why should muscle-memory in your foot not also work with your fingers ;-) !?

Second concept that i wanna recreate on my rig is the concept Zanardi had running in his M8 GTE.

I´ll put up a video on Youtube of my solution when i´m finished, to show what i mean and how it works in detail.

@Kek700 i do not own a Heusinkvelt pedal set, but i will try the damening option with my custom pedal set in the future for proof of concept. Theoretically, with minor adjustements, that might also work on your HE´s.

Cheers Dan

Funnily enough I recently went a bit crazy and picked up some heusinkveld sprints. I'm upgrading from some old Fanatec CSR Elite pedals and from my limited use I'm already gaining pace. My rig is out of commission for the next few weeks so I cant test further .

I only am affected with spasms under certain circumstances. However when I focus and get in the zone so to speak it becomes less of an issue. The biggest hurdle for me is certainly pedal input. If anything these pedals are certainly going to give my legs a workout! I may be at a physical disadvantage but from my perspective, removing variables like unreliable/inconsistent gear makes the experience and times (less important to me) so much better. Realism is what I'm after.

Cheap pedals suck even for me!

Can you explain further what you mean with "The biggest hurdle for me is certainly pedal input. "?
Is it also precise movement?

 

[manu68]

Not sure to have understood everything here.
I just would like to share my admiration for the people with handicap.
I had myself to spend one year on a wheelchair after an accident. It was only one year, but I discover something essential in my own life during this period
ALL IS POSSIBLE.
I personally know people with handicap, ans they are doing Incredible things with lots of courage and adaptation to the situation.

Also yes, no doubt for me that there is no problem to enjoy simracing with an handicap.
We are all people, the same people

 

[cirris]

Can you explain further what you mean with "The biggest hurdle for me is certainly pedal input. "?
Is it also precise movement?

Yes. Modulating pedal force consistently in turns and such is difficult.

 

[Kek700]

Bought damper from eBay for £13, bit of old 40:40 I had, so far, works well.
Definitely better, damps down any sudden input.
Will see how I get on with it over the coming weeks, was going to go for
an adjustable damper at £18, see how it goes, at the moment works well.

 

[Daniel R.]

View attachment 334689

Bought damper from eBay for £13, bit of old 40:40 I had, so far, works well.
Definitely better, damps down any sudden input.
Will see how I get on with it over the coming weeks, was going to go for
an adjustable damper at £18, see how it goes, at the moment works well.

Very cool, and looks cool as well...
Curious about how it works, maybe the electronic dampening for fine tuning later, we'll see.

 

[Kek700]

It’s just a scooter steering damper. Because of your pedal ratio, seems just about correct.
It does not make the throttle pedal stiff. Tried that, became very tiring after a short while whilst driving.
Seems to stop sudden inputs, especially as I use a throttle with a softish spring.
Also stopped the sudden release problems that can occur in some cars.

 

[Daniel R.]

It’s just a scooter steering damper. Because of your pedal ratio, seems just about correct.
It does not make the throttle pedal stiff. Tried that, became very tiring after a short while whilst driving.
Seems to stop sudden inputs, especially as I use a throttle with a softish spring.
Also stopped the sudden release problems that can occur in some cars.

Sounds good. Hope this is a good future solution for you!!

 

[Daniel R.]

Hey Guys,

i made a second mockup influenced by Zanardi´s solution for his M8 GTE.
I again used my Possibility Mock Up Nr.1 (see my post #21) to have a analouge throttle pedal for my left hand and a paddle on the right for upshifts.

The result is called Possibility Mock Up Nr.2.

What i added on the right side of my rig is two handbrake assemblies with my SimCylinders attached to them.
This turns them into proper loadcell based input devices.
Left Lever is brake, right lever is clutch (featuring Belleville Springs to give proper clutch feel).
On the left of the two handbrake levers i also added a button (like the trigger on a joystick) for downshifts.

A video of both Possibility Mock Up´s in action will be made soon and also uploaded on Youtube.

I already tested a bit in Rfactor2 and i must say that it feels quite good. I certainly have to get used to it overall, but this mainly because obviously i´m used to the "usual" input phylosophy using my feet.

What you think?

Cheers Dan

 

[Daniel R.]

Hey Guys,
It's been a while.
But I got sonething new... The Loadcell Paddle!!

Just did a quick and dirty CAD concept.
Will build this one up and give it a try.

Its technically identical to common non Hydraulik Loadcell pedals.

I'll keep you updated...

Cheers Dan

 

[djm68]

I am a disabled racer and sim-racer. I lost my right leg to cancer when I was 20 (now 51!). I race (mostly time trial and hillclimb) in a 2012 Porsche Cayman R PDK and I am an avid sim racer.

Mods I've made:
- In my Porsche, I use a PDK gear box, so no need for a clutch pedal.
- I made my own left foot accelerator that when I press it, a lever arm presses the factory pedal -- it is quite a tidy install, will post pics if anyone is interested.

For Sim racing it is quite easy:
For my old G27, I simply swapped the clutch and accelerator springs and map the clutch for the accelerator in the sims.

I am now building a full sim rig (Bodnar 53, P1-X, HE pedals, etc). As I am using HE Sprints, it will be easy enough to mount the accelerator to the left.

Last thing: as I use the gas pedal and brake with my left foot, I can not quickly modulate gas and brake. I am looking to do a something custom where I use a wheel mounted clutch paddle for throttle, similar to the above from Daniel.

Cheers,
Dominic

BTW: 'handicap' is not the correct terminology. Generally speaking, 'disabled' is the preferred term.

 

[Daniel R.]

I am a disabled racer and sim-racer. I lost my right leg to cancer when I was 20 (now 51!). I race (mostly time trial and hillclimb) in a 2012 Porsche Cayman R PDK and I am an avid sim racer.

Mods I've made:
- In my Porsche, I use a PDK gear box, so no need for a clutch pedal.
- I made my own left foot accelerator that when I press it, a lever arm presses the factory pedal -- it is quite a tidy install, will post pics if anyone is interested.

For Sim racing it is quite easy:
For my old G27, I simply swapped the clutch and accelerator springs and map the clutch for the accelerator in the sims.

I am now building a full sim rig (Bodnar 53, P1-X, HE pedals, etc). As I am using HE Sprints, it will be easy enough to mount the accelerator to the left.

Last thing: as I use the gas pedal and brake with my left foot, I can not quickly modulate gas and brake. I am looking to do a something custom where I use a wheel mounted clutch paddle for throttle, similar to the above from Daniel.

Cheers,
Dominic

BTW: 'handicap' is not the correct terminology. Generally speaking, 'disabled' is the preferred term.

Hey Dominic,
thanks for the info for the correct terminology. Didn´t know this, cause i´m not a native english speaker.

I would really love to see pictures of your mods in your Cayman!!

You said you need a throttle paddle on your wheel. I did that with my possibility mockup in a older post in here. I used so called Flex Sensors for that.
But that was just quick and dirty, and i had it laying around.
The plan is anyway to also use the loadcell paddle for throttle. Basically you just need a spring instead of a rubber component to make the loadcells signal analog in its behaviour.
I hope you know what i mean. I think HE Pedals work the same way on throttle. It´s just a spring there that presses on the loadell instead of Fibros.
Also see the pictures about my possibility mockup Nr. 2. It´s a complete different concept and it used the left "paddle" for throttle, two handbrakes for clutch and brake etc.
Works really well!!
Cheers Dan

 

[Medilloni]

A fascinating thread Daniel, and regarding a 'ready made' throttle & brake' hand controller... your thread reminded me that 3drap have one. Found when I used their brake mod kit for Logitech pedals.

There is only one review though it gives a very favourable account. Can be found here: https://www.3drap.it/product/hand-controller-throttle-and-brake-gaming-is-possible/

 

[djm68]

Hey Dominic,
thanks for the info for the correct terminology. Didn´t know this, cause i´m not a native english speaker.

I would really love to see pictures of your mods in your Cayman!!

You said you need a throttle paddle on your wheel. I did that with my possibility mockup in a older post in here. I used so called Flex Sensors for that.
But that was just quick and dirty, and i had it laying around.
The plan is anyway to also use the loadcell paddle for throttle. Basically you just need a spring instead of a rubber component to make the loadcells signal analog in its behaviour.
I hope you know what i mean. I think HE Pedals work the same way on throttle. It´s just a spring there that presses on the loadell instead of Fibros.
Also see the pictures about my possibility mockup Nr. 2. It´s a complete different concept and it used the left "paddle" for throttle, two handbrakes for clutch and brake etc.
Works really well!!
Cheers Dan

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for your reply! And no problem about the terminology -- I am not personally offended by these things, but some people are more sensitive than others.

I will happily post some pictures of my mods, but will have to wait until weekend -- I have a very busy schedule with my career.

Regarding the HE pedals: I believe the throttle uses a hall effect sensor to measure movement; the brake uses a loadcell.

For my hand throttle, I am considering this: https://www.ascher-racing.com/shop/clutch-paddles/ which uses a hall effect sensor to measure movement. I believe this would be a rather easy setup since it can be easily mapped as a throttle -- basically, plug and play.

My ultimate goal is to have this setup:

HE sprint throttle pedal mounted to the left of brake pedal, then on steering wheel hand throttle. Both of these would be connected to an Arduino, then the Arduino connect to the PC. This would give me the possibility to use either foot or hand for throttle. Under most circumstances I am fine to only use foot pedals, but in same cases I want foot on brake and then modulate gas with the hand. This will require some programming on the Arduino to correctly select which device to read for input, but I am an experienced 'C' programmer so I can handle this fairly easily.

Thanks for starting this thread, Daniel! Great discussion!

MFG,
Dominic

 

[Daniel R.]

My ultimate goal is to have this setup:

HE sprint throttle pedal mounted to the left of brake pedal, then on steering wheel hand throttle. Both of these would be connected to an Arduino, then the Arduino connect to the PC. This would give me the possibility to use either foot or hand for throttle. Under most circumstances I am fine to only use foot pedals, but in same cases I want foot on brake and then modulate gas with the hand. This will require some programming on the Arduino to correctly select which device to read for input, but I am an experienced 'C' programmer so I can handle this fairly easily.

So you mean having two physical axis in one ingame axis?

That´s an interesting thought.

Just thinking what might happen when you use both physical axis at the same time...
But think since your left foot is not on the throttle while braking it should not be an issue.

Just as a tip:
Have a look on teensy instead of arduino as joystick.

Teensyduino: Using USB Joystick with Teensy on the Arduino IDE

www.pjrc.com

The Teensy is also a microcontroller board just as the arduinos and it´s also programmed via Arduino IDE. I work with it and i´m quite happy. You don´t need an extra library to use it as a joystick because you can compile it as one already.
Maybe interesting for you.

I think using a Ascher Clutch is the easiest way for you to have a paddle for throttle.

 

[Daniel R.]

A fascinating thread Daniel, and regarding a 'ready made' throttle & brake' hand controller... your thread reminded me that 3drap have one. Found when I used their brake mod kit for Logitech pedals.

There is only one review though it gives a very favourable account. Can be found here: https://www.3drap.it/product/hand-controller-throttle-and-brake-gaming-is-possible/

View attachment 345489
View attachment 345490

Hey, thanks!

Yes i know this solution. It´s also very interesting.
The only downside i could imagine is, that you have to bind an extra, relatively big, component to your hand plus a cable.

But i don´t know, could work well as well...somebody else must tell

 

[super_gt]

Regarding the HE pedals: I believe the throttle uses a hall effect sensor to measure movement

It uses a load cell, you can see it in this picture:

 

[djm68]

So you mean having two physical axis in one ingame axis?

That´s an interesting thought.

Just thinking what might happen when you use both physical axis at the same time...
But think since your left foot is not on the throttle while braking it should not be an issue.

Just as a tip:
Have a look on teensy instead of arduino as joystick.

Teensyduino: Using USB Joystick with Teensy on the Arduino IDE

www.pjrc.com

The Teensy is also a microcontroller board just as the arduinos and it´s also programmed via Arduino IDE. I work with it and i´m quite happy. You don´t need an extra library to use it as a joystick because you can compile it as one already.
Maybe interesting for you.

I think using a Ascher Clutch is the easiest way for you to have a paddle for throttle.

Regarding using two physical axis at the same time: there is no chance I would be using both throttles at the same time. As both throttles would be sending their signal to the arduino, I can use on the arduino to select which throttle value to use. For example, it is easy to detect if the throttle is being used -> the value is greater than 0. There would be some other conditions to be tested but again this is not a very difficult programming exercise. Ultimately, the PC will only see a single axis -- the Arduino 'hides' the two input axis, and outputs a single value.

I will take a look at the Teensy -- thanks for the tip!

Cheers!
Dominic

 

[djm68]

It uses a load cell, you can see it in this picture:

I looked on the HE website and yes you are correct, they use a load cell. But no, I can not see a loadcell in that pciture!

Cheers!