Sim Racing Expo 2018: Day 1 in Review

[gianlucaP]

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[Rodent]

Hope the new rF2 shaders can do something to the interiors of the cars. The sim has more than adequate graphics for everything not inside the car, but the cockpit view detracts from the experience every time I sit down to race it.

 

[roadyroad]

Yeah, I see plenty of complaints about rF2 graphics, and I don't understand them at all, certainly not since the switch to DX11 was made.

This is without me even really trying to make it look good apart from the choice of the shot - it's the graphics settings I race with, so still quite far from the best settings available.

A lot of the content is kinda lacking in car, track and trackside detail, yes, but no shaders will change that. I like nice graphics, I don't really subscribe to that "I don't care about graphics in sims" school of thought, but I really can't see much wrong with rF2 graphics. Not anything shaders would change, anyway, see above. There are far more important issues to be solved in rF2 than nicer shaders and lighting, IMO.

100% agree. Rfactor 2's graphics aren't amazing but sufficient to enjoy racing ; and if you race in VR, they do the job as any other sim.

What about the awful loading times? In 2018 it is unacceptable. If I want to make a 5 or 10 laps race just for fun, I never think about rFactor2, I'll be able to finish the race in AC or Pcars2 or Raceroom before entering the race in rFactor2 (ok there's some kind of exageration there, but you got my point ).

What about the mod support? They built a modding system with steam workshop, rFactor2's number one competitive advantage, and... nothing ; a bunch of obsolete mods, although intesting and good, that the developper should have helped to update while being updating the sim. What a shame to have a complete 1975 F1 season with overbloomy graphics and I assume physics from an older version. Helping polishing this mod would make the game an instant buy for any F1 fan of this period (no sim propose a complete 70s season, with dynamic weather, except... F1 Challenge).

As stated by others, if the modding is complicated in rFactor2, Studio397 should dedicate a team to help modders ; we will get content, quality content, and soon. If it faces a complex editing tool and a lack of support, I understand the lack of motivation from the modding community, especially if the sim is initially made for them.

Updating the graphics, the UI... selling new content from time to time, well, where is it going? Will this product definitvely be... finished? Modding on AC got insane after the last update because modders could make content which would not be broken after 3 months (remember the need to update the physics and the sound? many mods just got obsolete and got unusable).

Imo, before everything, before adding or selling any new content, rFactor2 has to be officially declared complete, whatever its state is (for sure, nicer graphics are a "plus" but is it worth letting the sim in development for graphics improvements?). It will be ok if it's not perfect (many where disappointed with AC when it got its last update, many features missing, but now it's forgotten, the game was a success).

 

[Marcel Offermans]

I wish S397 ran a poll, personally would have preferred le mans

We are actually keeping a close eye on community feedback here and on many other forums and social media. That gives us, at least in my opinion, a fairly good idea of what out community would like. I don't think a separate poll would improve that.

Now, since we're wishing things, I wish licensing was as easy as simply approaching the winning track from a poll and getting a license from them. Just to give you an idea, we have been talking to the people from the Nurburgring for more than a year about licensing the track. These processes take time. Building relationships takes time. That means that sometimes your favorite track will have to wait a bit longer. That said, we are super happy with this announcement and our relationship with the Nurburgring! Needless to say we are talking to others too.

 

[thepharcyde]

We are actually keeping a close eye on community feedback here and on many other forums and social media. That gives us, at least in my opinion, a fairly good idea of what out community would like. I don't think a separate poll would improve that.

Now, since we're wishing things, I wish licensing was as easy as simply approaching the winning track from a poll and getting a license from them. Just to give you an idea, we have been talking to the people from the Nurburgring for more than a year about licensing the track. These processes take time. Building relationships takes time. That means that sometimes your favorite track will have to wait a bit longer. That said, we are super happy with this announcement and our relationship with the Nurburgring! Needless to say we are talking to others too.

Why not borrow the lidar from RFPro haha

 

[Ricoow]

Just got back home, what a great weekend that was!

 

[Marcel Offermans]

Why not borrow the lidar from RFPro haha

I guess you already understand that this is also not that simple. Such data more often than not comes with all kinds of restrictions on how it can and cannot be used.

 

[kph002]

Congratulations to Marcel & Studio 397 for having the best news from Sim Racing Expo 2018! I have only been using rF2 for ~1 year, but it has come a long way in that time. There are certainly aspects that could be improved upon, but it has content that cannot be experienced in any other modern sim & a team that is constantly working on updates. Sometimes we at RD forget how small sim racing as a community is, so for me it's great to see companies & modding groups continue to develop product for our hobby at reasonable prices (look at train or flight sims for comparison). Also thanks to Paul & the crew for the tweets from the expo.

 

[Turk]

What about Historic BTCC
In my opinion the most intense on the limit battles in Motorsport and it hasn't been replicated since Toca lol

The whole 2018 BTCC is available on youtube and it's still pretty damn good. It's so different to see race cars making so much contact, even doing PIT maneuvers to the guy in front, the guy in front regains control, they continue racing, no sanctions given, "racing incident".

 

[KittX]

How so? They have not really improved the modding aspects of rf2 which has always been massive issue for rf2 especially considering it was supposed to be modding platform first and something else second. Rf2 modding issues are lack of documentation and poor quality of tools. And when I mean poor I mean poor. They even killed off gjed without any warning just so they can take a step backwards and make 3dsmax 2012 the only software that can create content for rf2. Shinier graphics with more modern shaders won't fix any of that.

How come the damn gold standard for making 3d (and honestly, the easiest of these all) became poor quality tool?
Yes, 2012 is old version, and really hope they will bring support for later versions of software.
But all you need is there: 3ds max, export tools and dev mode. Why you ever need a middleware, if only you're working in Maya or Blender? Then, the workflow itself slows down twice or triple - because of all the manipulations at each export. And honestly, modelling tracks in Blender is a pain.

 

[Ghoults]

I don't want to pollute this thread with any more rf2 stuff so this is my last post about this matter.

How come the damn gold standard for making 3d (and honestly, the easiest of these all) became poor quality tool?

Never said 3dsmax is poor. But forcing everybody to buy or pirate thousand dollar software is not a good move in this day and age for a modding platform. As for poor quality of tools... well just look at the tools ac provides compared to what rf2 provides. Or mostly what rf2 doesn't provide.

But all you need is there: 3ds max, export tools and dev mode. Why you ever need a middleware, if only you're working in Maya or Blender? Then, the workflow itself slows down twice or triple - because of all the manipulations at each export. And honestly, modelling tracks in Blender is a pain.

That is so 2005 way of thinking. Times move on. It is much better to support something like fbx (not a perfect solution either because autodesk are... annoying) and allow everybody to export from whatever they use into that and then set up the game specific settings in that software. That way people can also take full benefit of other specialized software if they choose to do so. A plugin for 3dsmax is middleware just like an sdk. At least with a separate sdk you are not stuck with old programs. Sdk also has the option to do lots of the manual work for you. It is just terrible idea having to work with notepad files like gens and scns in this day and age. Having to manually combine lists of objects in your car and track is also laughably outdated idea. Sdk can export directly into one file instead of hundreds of files like rf2 where you then use notepad to get the files appear inside the game.

And rf2 dev mode is more of a hindrance than a positive. What benefits does it add to the game to have two separate modes? That is nothing less than a workaround for another wrong decision isi made long time ago (poor packaging system and file structure). Ac does fine with single install. Rf2 devmode is mostly just an annoyance anyways as some things don't work or work differently in devmode than they do in the "real version".

And blender is fine for track making, what are you talking about...

I get it. You have never done any modding outside of rf2 so your perspective is just that.

 

[Paul Jeffrey]

Hey folks

Had a great time and will be back in the “office” on fhursday to do some rounding up and catching up!

Off to Amsterdam now for a couple of days relaxation (it’s soooo hot here atm) i’d be greatful if some more of @Paul Glover deoderant right now!

If nothing else this weekend reminds me why I love sim racing and RD.

See you in a couple of days folks

 

[KittX]

Having to manually combine lists of objects in your car and track is also laughably outdated idea.

I get it. You have never done any modding outside of rf2 so your perspective is just that.

LOL. Well, first off let's not get personal. You have no idea who's done what.
Second, in case of rf2 (and in case of most simracing titles) optimization is a very cruical aspect, and you like it or not, the best results in optimization never come from auto-generated scn file, or the likes of it. You have to edit manually to get the best result. You can do things like combine different lod versions inside the same instance, it's just one of many examples. Some batch exporters for various titles do that, some don't, in case of rF2 they don't.
It's not the case in games like strategies or such, where you have completely different way the things are build and show up. Again tho, it may be the case, depending on the whole structure of engine.
And by the way the whole "having to compile by hand" sentence is a lie and fake statement, sorry. You can set up everything this way that you can auto-generate SCN file on export and it will work in game, in exception of IBL placement and static reflection locations, which you have to tweak manually, and those optimization fine-tuning tweaks I've told about earlier. But it WILL work fine without them.
And of course if the engine has it's own SDK it's more beneficial. But IMO, if SDK is the tool you use for fine-tuning the materials, and you cannot then assign your changes to the software which you're exporting from - it's a bad strategy, as every newly exported version has to be tweaked again... Then you are back to your source file in a half of year or a year - and you're screwed... because you don't remember what was tweaked and to what degree the source is useable.
And this is terrible idea, giving up the whole control and foundation things and going only for simple easy solutions.

And I don't get arguments about thousand dollar software - isn't that early 2000s way of thinking?
It's an expensive hobby, just like photography. Both in finance and in time aspect. Why you don't argue that you have to buy thousand-dollar camera, 500-dollar lens, and then buy a software to properly edit RAW files? It's the entry threshold if you wish - if you're dedicated enough you're in, for the long run. In case of 3ds max, you also want to buy various plugins to make your workflow even faster. You may also want to buy Substance to keep yourself to date, then PBR materials, high res PBR-ready textures...You may want to buy a libraries of things like foliage models, and then render them to use the high-res rendered parts with all the self-shading stored in some map and converted for your ingame models. Or you may not want to, depending on your dedication. What's the point of all this "you're old, it's 2018" talk if it's usually being used only to promote one aspect and completely untouching pushing things up in other aspects? This trick is getting old now.

 

[FeltHat]

Off to Amsterdam now for a couple of days relaxation

 

[Ricoow]

Hey folks

Had a great time and will be back in the “office” on fhursday to do some rounding up and catching up!

Off to Amsterdam now for a couple of days relaxation (it’s soooo hot here atm) i’d be greatful if some more of @Paul Glover deoderant right now!

If nothing else this weekend reminds me why I love sim racing and RD.

See you in a couple of days folks

Lucky you, I'll be in Amsterdam as well tomorrow but that is not for relaxation anymore

 

[keto95]

@Paul Jeffrey:
Drunk in Nürburg, stoned in Amsterdam. Enjoy life!

 

[ears]

Now, since we're wishing things, I wish licensing was as easy as simply approaching the winning track from a poll and getting a license from them.

Just call yourselves a 'modding team' and rename 'payments' 'donations'.

Then you can create and sell what you like and not bother yourselves with the tedium of copyright and licensing.

 

[RichardHessels]

Just call yourselves a 'modding team' and rename 'payments' 'donations'.
Then you can create and sell what you like and not bother yourselves with the tedium of copyright and licensing.

The companies that hold the licenses are smart enough to see that there is money made and lost by them. They haunt you to hell and back with lawyers if they need to.

 

[dhmotor]

Is anyone else surprised by the slowing pace of hardware development? For a while there new products seemed to be coming out fast and furious. I mean we are now going to see the Podium series that was announced at last year's Sim Expo ship this December, but other than that it has seemed relatively quiet. The small Mige's have been trickling out, but I would have expected TM or Logi to have something to take advantage of the expo and maybe one of the larger rig manufacturers. Could be it's just that ISRTV is not putting on 1-2 gear reviews a week anymore, but still I would have expected more from the SIM EXPO in terms of new hardware.....

 

[123rem]

Day 1: Met with sim racing pros, went to pub after.
Days 2-50: Wdsmjojeosm,mf,mdjjfeoj,jf,ded kebab fnflsnknf coffee bacon sandwich more beer nmosnnjfkdfdf
Day 51: Going home