PC2 Sim Discussion Monday - Project CARS 2

[Paul Jeffrey]

First day back in the office for many this morning, what better way to pass the time than have a good discussion about the new Project CARS game?

Now the dust is beginning to settle around the recent release of Project CARS 2, we thought it a good time to look deeper into the game, driven by our community, and share our findings and impressions from the heavily hyped new racing title from Slightly Mad Studios.

Do you have some useful tips for getting the most from the sim? Found a magic setting to really unlock the FFB? Got a trick up your sleeve that helps bring sharper graphics for little FPS trade off? Or do you simply want to share your most / least favourite car and track combinations?

So long as it remains on topic, respectful and mature, we want to know your thoughts!

Mondays be like...

 

[Dan Marr]

The full straight?

You want to enjoy the good ol' days?.. £5.99...

 

[gianlucaP]

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[Emery]

Cars don't race in strong fog. That's why you never experienced it in another simulator.

Inaugral 24 hr Chumpcar event at Portland in 2009... incredibly thick fog at midnight, got stronger when I went to do my stint from 1a-2a. Finally race redflagged about 15 minutes after I finished my stint. When cars were parked nose-to-tail on the main straight, you couldn't see more than 5 car lengths and this part of the track was under the lights!

 

[Deleted member 99238]

... I can only dream what else we’re going to get from DLC...

The full straight?

Gentlemen, are you talking about this?

I think that these additions will be dedicated to different epochs with the corresponding set of cars and tracks.

 

[MarkR]

As for the sim racing community a large prescription of prozac or some other anti-depressant would work wonders.

Due to the side effects of most anti-depressants, I see a couple of upsides with this idea:

1. Memory loss is common with many selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, hopefully, they'll just forget their interest in sim racing and move on to a new obsession. As many see only good in one side of an argument a career in politics surely beckons.

2. Nausea, some happy pill popping followed by a long VR session ought to result in some spectacular projectile vomiting. Enough to create a remembered emotional reaction and that should be the end of the interest in sim racing.

On the other hand, there is one significant downside:

3. Insomnia means they'd probably sit up all night in public lobbies playing racing games but not really being sure why they do due to the memory loss. After 6 weeks the world of always sunshine created by the drugs will mean that no matter how bad they are or how much chaos they cause in their own mind they are Senna and it is everyone else's fault. As this sounds a lot like most public lobbies now, maybe more already take happy pills than we think.

I was going to finish with something witty here but the pills just kicked in and I can't for the life of me remember what it was.

 

[gianlucaP]

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[William Wester]

Well, I'm happy that I don't take other's opinions to heart, I listen but make up my own mind based on the largest sampling of users and reviews I can get. My favorite sim over that past couple of years has been rF2 - I just feel the most connected to the road and "most" cars react as I would expect (many performance cars over the years - 63 years young). My personal preference is mainly historical and race cars - not into road cars that much.

I'm not an expert but I know crap when I see it. If I would have listened to a large portion of the sim racing community I may have not spent the time to understand the rF2 intricacies. I only play racing games (they're ALL games) and have done so since the invention of dirt. Again, we all look for specific things so I realize preferences dictate opinions.

So, over the past day or so I've been playing PC2, not as a gamer would so I can't comment on career, driving in the snow, or even against the AI (only a couple races which were ok). Mainly to test the physics, FFB, general car control, immersion, etc..) But, what I have done is find common cars in PC2/AC/R3E and drove enough laps on Silverstone to form an opinion, to a lesser extent R3E and haven't had time for an rF2 or AMS comparisons. I've taken a BMW 1M (very similar to my IRL 135i (mine has a little more horsepower, but heavier), BMW M3 Group A DTM, Porsche 991 GT3 R, Porsche 935/77 (Grp 5), street Corvette Z06/C7, Nissan GT-R Nismo, Audi Quattro GTO, Ford Escort RS1600, Lotus 49, KTM X-Bow R, Caterham 320 R (only PC2 - sooo good!), and maybe one or two more.
A couple of things that are common for AC for example, compared to PC2, it's common for braking to bring the back end around (some cars didn't have brake bias adj) and when it does there is a little less "feel" of the edge of adhesion - a little harder to feel the edge. Also the brakes in many cars in AC seem less effective - more pedal effort (not in a bad way, but a trait non-the-less). There are some cars I may prefer in AC, others in PC2. Overall, I'm surprised how alike they are, most cars drive very similar and exhibit similar traits - all very fun. The only car I don't like is the Corvette Z06 in PC2, MUCH too squirrely. I've driven a Ferrari 458 Italia on a track at speed and aids protect the driver pretty well, very easy to push hard (hard to master on edge though).

So, the moral of my story...what can I say... well, if someone is saying PC2 is similar to PC1 OR crap it there has to be a reason.

1) Haven't tried PC2
2) Don't have a good wheel/pedals
3) Haven't found good settings (PC2 defaults are even pretty good though)
4) Don't have a decent computer
5) Are on a console (don't know how the experience is myself)
6) Are slamming PC2 because they just want to (have an agenda)

** You may prefer certain games but that's a different issue completely - not what I'm getting at **

I'm won't say game one is "better" than the other but PC2 has leaped into the sim group with the others for the most part. This is very good for us sim/game racing/driving gamers.
If anyone is racing with a gamepad, you must get a good wheel setup to fully enjoy PC2, AC, AMS, rF2, R3E, etc., the driving immersion is fantastic.

Enough said, I'm having a blast, play the game you enjoy, don't fret the others.

 

[Nick Hill]

Yes. It was configured to be pure rack forces -- no extra anything.

The Informative preset has a bit of compression/signal shaping to bring out the details that would get lost if you were to use RAW with a wheel with limited dynamic range and linearity issues (think Logitech G27). This preset employs the auto-adjustment functionality, which over time calibrates itself to ensures that you get to make use of the entire dynamic range of your FFB wheel.

The Immersive preset also uses compression/signal shaping (with the auto-adjustment functionality outlined above) and dials in some Seat of Pants (SoP), which samples cornering forces at the rear of the car to give you a better idea of what the rear is doing if you prefer that sort of FFB.

EDIT: As the above post says, the auto-adjustment happens based on the values in the FFB 'bins' (the six bars you see at the bottom left when you turn on the telemetry HUD). If too many samples land in the rightmost bin, the FFB is clipping and will be turned down a notch. The strength isn't adjusted while cornering (to avoid the wheel becoming lighter/heavier during cornering for no apparent reason).

Wow, great info! Thank you.

I'm running a Tx wheel - sounds like I oughta try raw.

 

[Midnight⠀]

Jaguar XJR 9 LM - Le Mans - Thunderstorm

Since unfortunately I have never driven the real car, never been on the real track it is quite hard to decide how close it is to it's real life counterpart, but it is definitely an entertaining and challenging experience and this is what I expect from a game for my money.

Project CARS 2 is certainly far from a perfect, flawless game but it took a step forward and I am hoping to see some further positive changes with the upcoming patches.

 

[SOLO59]

I'm really excited to FINALLY have a go at some proper offline multi class racing!!!!!! Y'all have no idea how excited I am for this.

The ability to recreate IMSA or create any multi car class combo AND each class is classified and timed in there own categories just like irl is my dream come true in a racing game FINALLY. (For some reason, I just love multi class racing). Last time I experienced proper multi class offline racing was Total Immersion Racing for Playstion 2. That game had no FFB. I owned Gran Turismo 4 and Nascar 2008 at the time as well and while they had FFB, I still spent more time with Total Immersion Racing JUST for the multi class racing.
And thats how long I've been waiting for one of these racing games/sims that I have in my steam library to give us multi class racing. All that's missing is custom championships but I can live without that for now until SMS implements it in a future update.

I'm just very very happy to be able to immerse myself in some offline multiclass racing whenever I'm not able to make it to the RD club races. I also want to try out the multiplayer online ranking system.

Picking up this title this weekend for sure!
I'm gonna be a busy man behind the "TX" wheel this weekend!

 

[jimortality]

Wow, great info! Thank you.

I'm running a Tx wheel - sounds like I oughta try raw.

I'm getting on quite well with raw, just make sure you have the volume mapped so you can adjust on the fly if you need.

 

[Paulo Cezar Ramalho]

My opinion, this is very good game I think they should put more cars and tracks. The gameplay the force of the steering wheel is very good. Only think that they should for more tracks compatible with the cars without being track fantazia tracks areas. game .Tinkering on the strength of the feedback spoils the game. It's very good at PC

 

[Rob Every]

Was watching some streaming last night, and was not overly impressed. Seems braking in some cars is a problem, in that smashing the brakes and locking them slows a car down more effectively in a race situation than braking like a normal person would.

 

[Marc Hennerici]

I have tested the game on PS4 and PC at SimRacing Expo. My first feeling of the ffb was not that good, but again I realized that only a few adjustments in the settings changed the feeling from not so good to very, very good. The standard setting is really bad, you need to take away nearly all forces but only keep the torque forces. Then you really feel an understeering as you feel it in Assetto Corsa. With PS4 I made the same, and the feeling is great. My car control is almost as good as in real and I had some very nice laps with the 1967 Lotus F1 on Nordschleife while a thunderstorm was blowing over the track... Great car control, great feeling, great game... [if you have the settings right ] .

 

[James Robertson]

Are we allowed to post videos in these threads.

 

[Damage Inc]

I do not understand some on this forum.
I still drive in PC1 and get pleasure from it.
Also I can run a few quick hotlaps in AC, after I can do a quick race in the AMS on the Brazilian track. Sometimes it takes me a few weeks to delay R3E studying the tracks.
I never considered myself a simracer, but I always considered myself a Gamer.

It's the ones who are the actual "fanboys" and hate anything coming in on their patch, it's actually human nature....they are defending from a threat. Usually the ones who only play online in "their" game so don't want to see "their" game lose players to a rival.

The type that is completely incapable of live and let live attitude.

 

[Damage Inc]

Exactly, there's a big difference between a GAMER and a SIM-RACER. I want spot on physics, no room for vagueness or uncertainty or inexplicable reactions. You on the other hand might not even be aware of those things, you might even perceive those as normal.

Indeed a gamer enjoys playing their games, it seems to me a Sim racer is deluded into thinking their game of choice is DA REEELZ !!!!!oneoneoneeleven

 

[Damage Inc]

That's because underneath it's still NFS Shift, i think it's common knowledge by now. But lets not ignore the big white elephant in the room shall we?

Just look at how soft those cars are. They lean as much as a 90s corolla with bad suspension man.....come on how can you people call this a simulator....and a good one? Come on....get serious people.

seeing as a lot of SMS are amongst the original founders of Simbin, I think you'll find that actually under the NFS shift layers is a certain Gmotor. That name ring a bell?

 

[Damage Inc]

Yeah because I was just whining so much.
Typical highbrow comeback from WMD fanboy.
Normal person: "This is unfinished I'm getting my money back."
WMD'er: "Counterpoint, you're a stupid whiny mental defective!"

erm reading this thread I'll correct things for you
Normal person: "this is a good sim game with a few issues, most will be fixed to varying degrees"
hater : "this game sucks, fiziks suck, tyre model sucks, ai sucks, SMS sucks...etc..etc...etc

 

[Damage Inc]

Pc2 as seen through the eyes of an AC fanboy: (Pre-TLDR: I'm not hating it)
I haven't touched online or used the AI; all thoughts in this wall of text are based on solo hotlapping:

My numero uno overall initial impression:
Grip. For. Days.

So much grip, especially rear end grip. Even in a thunderstorm while sliding around, there is still grip; you have to drive like a complete tool in order to spin a car in all but the rarest situations. There are definitely 'sim things' happening under the hood, but overall it feels like it permanently has the easy button pushed.

To get things started, I am using the RAW ffb with volume set to 60 with my T300. I push the wheel, it pushes back, so I guess the ffb works. The wheel goes limp while hydroplaning, which is good, and it also goes limp while 'drifting' (if you can call the sliding around you can get away with 'drifting') which isn't so good. Overall it feels a bit generic and 'meh' IMO, but it gets the job done. Might look into the Jack Spade stuff just to say I tried, but not really expecting anything mind blowing here. But even with my basic settings the ffb isn't horrible, or terrible, or unusable or anything drastic like that. It's kinda like a Jeep; utilitarian, no flash and bling, but gets the job done.
I have all three assists (abs, tcs, SC) turned completely off (more on that in a bit) and so far haven't touched anything in the setup pages other than manually swapping tires every now and then.

Physics:
You guys claiming this game to be some kind of 'new level' of realistic physics....C'mon......really??
There is far too much grip in almost every situation. And in most cases when the grip finally does give way, it does so in a way that there is no chance what so ever of getting it back. (which isn't always a bad thing, other than the ffb simply plays dead which leads to an even more lifeless feeling while waiting for the car to stop)

In AC I often find myself laughing a little bit because of a sweet save that I made or because I knew that I had gotten away with something that could have easily went the other way and spun me out.
In pc2 I often find myself laughing a little bit because of how much I am getting away with while knowing that if I drove any kinds of close to the same IRL it would result in a busted ass.
Also regarding physics:
What's up with being able to use paddles or H-pattern with any car? And using the clutch is completely and totally optional in all H pattern situations. (yes, autoclutch is turned off)
Having the car stall out and be a pain in the butt to re-fire is awesome! Huge props give for including this feature. Love being able to drive out the garage stall and down pit road; more props for SMS for including that.
ABS brakes don't seem to be needed IMO. You get the occasional lockup (and lifeless ffb that goes with it) but for the most part brakes work exceptionally well in pc2. (likely due to the whole super grip thing)

Graphics:
The benchmark. Even on high/medium settings using my (rapidly becoming ancient tech) 2500k/GTX 1060 the game looks amazing. Well, amazing when using night and/or rain. Bright and clear weather scenarios vary from looking really nice to looking simply 'meh'. But I don't see myself driving in those conditions too often, I have AC for that.
Daytona Road Course at night in the rain is epic to behold. I wish that the physics matched the visuals, but other than hydroplaning through puddles the grip levels/driving dynamics don't really change that much; at least not in the majority of cars that I have driven so far.

Let's wrap this up, didn't intent to reach prc levels of word count here.

When I fire up AC I end up fully immersed before I so much as leave pit road. I am no longer sitting in my sim-racing uniform in front of my tv with a toy wheel in my hand. I am in that car at that track and I drive exactly as I would in real life doing the same things that I have done/observed in my lifetime of experiences. Driving the cars the way I would in real life results in the car reacting/behaving the way that I would expect it to 99% of the time. The 'muh immersion' factor is set about as high as the 'simulation value'.

While driving pc2 the 'muh immersion' factor is much, much lower. I never just lose myself in the driving; I am always aware that I am playing a (quite fun) driving game. The physics allow you to feel like a driving God, but guess what, feeling like a driving God can be good fun.

Well good to hear positives from an AC fanboi!

But once again seeing as all I hear from real drivers is that most sims have too little grip I'll listen more to them (and I'm not talking about real drivers "working" for one sim or another).