Misc SHO Competition FFB for GTR2 V13-beta1

[Shovas]

Regarding your recommendation of 240 degrees steering rotation, this doesn't work for me when using the HQ Anniversary modded version of GTR 2.
Steering becomes extremely sensitive and is incomparable to what I'm used to in any other sim I own.
It does seem to ameliate the deadzone of my TMX Pro, but I much prefer 900 degrees rotation with the 0.76 Steer Force Exponent value included in the Shovas FFB that I selected in the HQA mod install.

It's okay if you want to use another rotation. It's only a recommendation. If I had my way I'd prefer 900 degrees but I like the benefits when I do have it at 240. It took me a while to get used to it, too, but after a while it doesn't feel very much different.

I really like what GTR 2 and GTL still have to offer and I appreciate the continuing effort you and other modders have made to improve what's there, so it's a bit frustrating that I can't seem to get the FFB near the informative feel of the likes of AMS 1, AC and Raceroom.
Specifically, there's a distinct sharp 'notchy' sensation I get when taking certain corners (e.g. Curva Grande and Lesmo at Monza) that's rather nasty.
Turning spring and damper off in the wheel's configuration utility doesn't seem to do anything.

Is there anyone with the same experience or am I doing something wrong?

I'll have to try those corners. I'm not sure what these forces are. I do know that often SimBin put bumps on apexes and through corners kind of ad hoc where they didn't really include them elsewhere so it might just be some artificial bumpiness.

You might try turning up smoothing. Sometimes I find unintelligible sharp/noisey ffb turns into valuable information when I increase smoothing (don't be afraid to experiment with A LOT of smoothing).

I would say ffb "approaches" AMS1/rF1 level ffb - it doesn't quite reach it. It's just that compared to stock ffb, at least in my experience, this new ffb is world's better.

 

[X-Vector]

I've been trying out about ten cars on the Monza track and it seems the "notchy" feel is not caused by HQ physics but is rather dependent on the type of vehicle, with the Porsche GT3 Cup that I started with as the biggest 'offender'.
I've done combinations of HQ and vanilla cars and tracks and thankfully other brands and models are much less affected and some not at all.

It's okay if you want to use another rotation. It's only a recommendation. If I had my way I'd prefer 900 degrees but I like the benefits when I do have it at 240. It took me a while to get used to it, too, but after a while it doesn't feel very much different.

I guess with 240 degrees the in-game steering wheel syncs up with the one I'm driving with, but it doesn't seem to be a realistic rotation and it feels like I'm using my Xbox360 controller again.
A combo of 900 degrees + around 21 steering lock matches up with what I'm used to in other sims and feels natural to me.

You might try turning up smoothing. Sometimes I find unintelligible sharp/noisey ffb turns into valuable information when I increase smoothing (don't be afraid to experiment with A LOT of smoothing).

Yes, it seems that lowering the FFB steer force average weight does the trick.
I came across the following page that explicitly mentions the FFB spikes when cornering in the Porsche(s): https://simracing.fandom.com/wiki/F...et_rid_of_FFB_spikes_and_feel_better_car_mass.

I would say ffb "approaches" AMS1/rF1 level ffb - it doesn't quite reach it. It's just that compared to stock ffb, at least in my experience, this new ffb is world's better.

I agree that it certainly is a lot better than stock and very enjoyable when dialed in right.
I just have to tinker with the PLR file some more and find the right balance between harshness on the one hand and the "hole in the middle" elastic band effect in the other (increasing FFB steer force output max helps).

 

[Machiavelo]

Great Job Shovas !!
Which version do you recommend for this steering wheel : TS-WX RACER (or TS-PC RACER) ?
Thank you

 

[Shovas]

Great Job Shovas !!
Which version do you recommend for this steering wheel : TS-WX RACER (or TS-PC RACER) ?
Thank you

I suspect the T300 or CSL Elite would be closest out of the files provided.

I'll happily include your new TC-PC Racer file in the mod if you make tweaks, though! Notes on how to tweak are in the README

 

[Shovas]

I discovered recently that a mode I use on my AccuForce causes non-linear torque delivery and results in poor clarity at high ranges of the force spectrum. Enabled I get 2.6Nm more torque but I'm going to disable it, anyway, to improve feeling. I've been tuning again since disabling that mode affected ffb feeling (the final result is objectively better, though).

It's just an AccuForce fix but I may update the others as I may have made some assumptions about Steer Force Exponent on other wheels based on how I was experiencing the non-linear torque curve.

So far, my Steer Force Exponent is back to 1.0 and it still feels natural, meaning bumps and suspension travel feel close/closer to AMS1/rF1 than stock, in my opinion.

So, v8 coming in the next few days or weeks.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Hello guys,

I recently upgraded to a DD1 wheel and am in progress of re-configuring my settings. I wanted to ask people who spent a lot of time on GTR2 FFB about avoiding the clipping. So with Fanatec I have game FFB settings, but then also there are some multipliers on the wheelbase itself (FOR/SPR/DPR). Which made me wonder:

* Does "FFB Gain" impact FFB clipping in GTR2?
* How do you know if FFB is being clipped in GTR2?

Cheers!

 

[Shovas]

Hello guys,

I recently upgraded to a DD1 wheel and am in progress of re-configuring my settings. I wanted to ask people who spent a lot of time on GTR2 FFB about avoiding the clipping. So with Fanatec I have game FFB settings, but then also there are some multipliers on the wheelbase itself (FOR/SPR/DPR). Which made me wonder:

* Does "FFB Gain" impact FFB clipping in GTR2?
* How do you know if FFB is being clipped in GTR2?

Cheers!

Oh, good, I just upgraded to a Simucube 2 Pro and I'm trying to tune GTR2 for it, as well. Will be good to have these wheels covered for the mod when we figure them out.

Yes, ffb gain would impact hard clipping which is at the wheel. Beware that it is possible to have soft clipping which is the game calculations themselves producing a signal that exceeds its own maximum output resulting in the same clipping feel.

If you have no torque meters, like I used to have with SimCommander, then probably the best way is to look for high speed, high ffb force corners and see if the ffb you feel goes numb, just a brute, dull force. That indicates it's clipping (ie. maximum output and no room for "feel" ffb information).

My SC2P actually beeps when it hits its configured maximum torque. Haven't actually hit it yet.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Oh, good, I just upgraded to a Simucube 2 Pro and I'm trying to tune GTR2 for it, as well. Will be good to have these wheels covered for the mod when we figure them out.

Yes, ffb gain would impact hard clipping which is at the wheel. Beware that it is possible to have soft clipping which is the game calculations themselves producing a signal that exceeds its own maximum output resulting in the same clipping feel.

If you have no torque meters, like I used to have with SimCommander, then probably the best way is to look for high speed, high ffb force corners and see if the ffb you feel goes numb, just a brute, dull force. That indicates it's clipping (ie. maximum output and no room for "feel" ffb information).

My SC2P actually beeps when it hits its configured maximum torque. Haven't actually hit it yet.

Thanks Shovas. Hard clipping means exceeds wheel physical torque, right? FFB Gain cannot cause soft clipping though, is my understanding correct?

I do not think I need to worry about hitting physical torque limits as I run fairly low forces. But while working on my plugin, I had to learn DirectInput a bit for an FFB effect I created and it made me wonder where should I modify the "master" force - in game or in wheelbase. Long story short, I believe mathematically, it makes most sense to keep FFB Gain as close to 1.0, but reduce FOR/SPR/DPR on the base to your liking. If FFB Gain cannot cause "Soft clipping", then I think it is the way to go.

DD1 has FFB meter on the base, but I cannot see it in VR and I don't have screen at my rig

I am looking forward to your SC2 Pro settings - congratulations on the new wheel.

 

[Shovas]

Thanks Shovas. Hard clipping means exceeds wheel physical torque, right? FFB Gain cannot cause soft clipping though, is my understanding correct?

I do not think I need to worry about hitting physical torque limits as I run fairly low forces. But while working on my plugin, I had to learn DirectInput a bit for an FFB effect I created and it made me wonder where should I modify the "master" force - in game or in wheelbase. Long story short, I believe mathematically, it makes most sense to keep FFB Gain as close to 1.0, but reduce FOR/SPR/DPR on the base to your liking. If FFB Gain cannot cause "Soft clipping", then I think it is the way to go.

DD1 has FFB meter on the base, but I cannot see it in VR and I don't have screen at my rig

I am looking forward to your SC2 Pro settings - congratulations on the new wheel.

That's right, I wouldn't see any reason FFB Gain would cause clipping, it would only turn up or down what clipping is there, if any.

I'm not sure what's absolutely right here but I prefer to keep my wheel at 100% and adjust in-game where possible so that even if the game decided to send more than what it calls "80%", for example, I still have torque headroom to deliver that at the wheel.

First world problems with your DD1 FFB meter and VR, eh?

Thanks, enjoying it so far. Still have a lot to learn tuning it. I spent 5 years learning SimCommander, I expect it'll take some time to learn True Drive.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

You made me laugh with meter and VR Yeah, silly problems indeed.

Let me clarify where my today's doubts come from :

My question stems from my (little) familiarity with DirectInput. DirectInput specifies magnitudes in integer 0:10000. So if you set force in game to something low, like 10%, this range becomes 0:1000 (roughly). So, this is much smaller resolution.

So my quesition is: is there any difference between reducing force multiplier in game and reducing multiplier in Wheel preset (FOR/SPR/DPR forces). In other words, what gives higher precision:

Game 10% force, Wheel 100% FOR/SPR/DPR

or

Game 100% force, Wheel 10% FOR/SPR/DPR

Why would that matter? Because for force 99.94% in one case driver will see: 999, in another case 9994.

You are right that keeping it below 100% in game gives headroom if game suddenly spills over. All in all, after some testing etc, I am leaning towards adjusting in on the wheel after all. I run pretty low forces (people may wonder why DD1 is even needed then, but high forces help with certain effects, like stationary friction when car is not moving). In life, I am used to cars with heavy wheel feeling, and if I set low force in game, I can't replicate such feeling (setting damper to 1.0 is not enough). But if I adujst Fanatec wheel forces FOR/SPR on wheel (but keep DPR all the way up) I can adjust it to my liking. Sounds convoluted, and yes 1st World problems. But anyway, looking forward to try your SC2 profile.

Have a good weekend.

 

[Shovas]

Shovas updated SHO Competition FFB with a new update entry:

SHO Competition FFB v8

SHO Competition FFB is a GTR2/GTL/PnG3 mod of various UserData User.PLR file force feedback configuration parameters to achieve an improved, more modern force feedback feel.

*Please see "README SHO Competition FFB.txt" in the download for helpful details on install/uninstall, tips, questions, known/open issues, testing notes, changes, and development notes.

Important! You will have a better FFB experience the higher your frame rate. This is because GTR2 ties FFB refresh rate to frame rate...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Shovas]

Shovas updated SHO Competition FFB with a new update entry:

SHO Competition FFB v9

- [Simucube 2 Pro] Tuning for improved grip gain/loss expression, use wheel software for Friction and Damper due to True Drive or Simucube 2 bugs with DirectInput effects

- Wheel Software Profiles are now available in Wheel Software Profiles. Available in V9, a Simucube 2 Pro True Drive profile and a SimXperience AccuForce V1 SimCommander profile.

- Simpler and hopefully more obvious folder structure

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Shovas updated SHO Competition FFB with a new update entry:

SHO Competition FFB v9



Read the rest of this update entry...

Shovas, nice to see updates coming out

I am curious - do you notice any FFB spikes with SC2 and GTR2? With DD1, I get spikes, sharp punch once in a very very while, while cornering. Did you notice anything like that?

I found something on S3 forums where people experience similar things in other games, gonna try that. Just been curious how is it with SC2?

 

[Shovas]

Thanks!

Hm no I don't think so. Inside corners tend to be where the devs placed bumps, though, so maybe those are a little excessive on your wheel?

One thing that sounds familiar is SimCommander (AccuForce wheel) had this telemetry logging where every time you crossed the finish line it spiked the ffb for some reason and disabling telemetry logging solved it. I don't know if it's similar for your wheel or not.

You can lower their magnitude in the track files, I think, but I can't find those settings right now after a quick search....oh the GDB files RoadBumpAmp/Len can't remember if that's for ffb or the car bouncing visuals...

 

[Shovas]

Shovas updated SHO Competition FFB with a new update entry:

A note about if/when wheels get ffb updates

Some releases actually don't change FFB for all wheels. I'll try to tag which wheels get actual ffb changes by tagging like this, "[Simucube 2 Pro R2]", for example.

Sometimes all wheels get affected, though. I only have one active wheel but there are times that a change to that wheel might apply to other wheels so, in this case, I'll try to remember to include a note that some or all changed.

If you're happy with your ffb you can stick to an old version.

If you're feeling adventurous you...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Retrolux]

Thanks for the update @Shovas

Which setting you would recommend for the T500? The T300 or the CSL Elite?

 

[Shovas]

Thanks for the update @Shovas

Which setting you would recommend for the T500? The T300 or the CSL Elite?

Yes, I'd imagine so. Probably those to start and if they don't feel good try the other non-DD PLRs. And if you end up tuning for your wheel I'd be happy to include your PLR in the mod!

 

[Shovas]

Shovas updated SHO Competition FFB for GTR2 with a new update entry:

A note on the few key parameters tuned and how you might tune yourself

[This is a preview of a note I'll be including in the README for the next release of this series of ffb mods for GTR2/GTL/R07. Hopefully this will simplify the process for people who might want to tune for their own wheels.]

# 4.1 Key Tuning Parameters and How to Tune Yourself

The key discovery in my ffb tuning of 2000s SimBin titles was how to resolve hard and soft clipping in default ffb parameter values. When this is resolved, road feeling and bumps come through, even in high speed...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[kusalam]

Thank you, I definitely will!

Hi thanks for all the joy!!
I'd like to use the profile on my T300RS so I'd like to know how much rotation angle I should set my wheel on please? For most more modern titles I leave it to 1080°, maybe it's not suitable for Power and Glory? I don't know... could you help me please?

 

[Shovas]

Hi thanks for all the joy!!
I'd like to use the profile on my T300RS so I'd like to know how much rotation angle I should set my wheel on please? For most more modern titles I leave it to 1080°, maybe it's not suitable for Power and Glory? I don't know... could you help me please?

You can set it at whatever you feel is best for you, probably whatever your native rotation is on your wheel. There shouldn't be any huge cons to doing so, either for ffb or in-game otherwise.

But, the only way to get the in-game wheel to rotate perfectly with your physical wheel is to set your physical wheel to 240degrees. I recommend this but it's not the end of the world if you choose not too.