AC Seat Leon Cup @ Watkins Glen - Sunday 09 June 2019

[Raresch]

Maybe it helps:
this is my setup from last year around castle combe. Fast track like Watkins I think.
Maybe it gives you another idea. I really liked that setup and could race hard with it
Car version was already the same, if you wonder.

I will try that tonight. Thanks a lot for the info.

I stopped using Motec for setups long time ago. Even when I could make sense of it, it still didn't get me faster. Going from the default or from a setup that someone really really fast created is more efficient.
After you got beaten by better drivers with default setups for multiple months you stop wasting energy on setup tweaks.

I see. But I don't really feel good to use the work of somebody else. That;s why I want to learn to do it on my own. But I guess it's way harder that way.

Sure, some basics need to be done like if the car is bottoming out or the aero drag is way too high etc. But the real tweaking is mostly useless for most tracks.

The aero is very problematic. I know that lowering the wing gives you more top speed, but then I set it like that I start loose the end in corners (because circuits have corners ) ) so I end up going up again. And then I see other setups from the fast guys that were even lower than what I thought was low. How can they manage so low aero .,,,, I guess it;s experience and practice.

 

[RasmusP]

I see. But I don't really feel good to use the work of somebody else. That;s why I want to learn to do it on my own. But I guess it's way harder that way.

See it like that: You'll learn how to do it on your own by learning and seeing what the guys who know their stuff do.
After some time (1-2 years) you'll know how to do it yourself if you keep being interested. You'll start to feel the changes etc.
Then you can share your setups too and continue the circle
Also: the fast guys always search for a challenge. So the more they get the newcomers close to their own pace, the more fun they'll have

How can they manage so low aero .,,,, I guess it;s experience and practice.

Indeed. Once you really know a car you can run setups where a slightly wrong brake or throttle push spins you right round. Or where steering too much will rotate the car into a spin.
But it takes a lot of skill to drive such setups.

Btw, my setup is wing = 0, hehe

If you don't know about it, notepad++ is a great tool I'm using a lot. Download the "compare" plugin and you'll be able to compare setups very easily.
If setup files are differently formatted but the naming is the same (like [WING_2] being at the bottom instead at the top for example, Notepad++ is still able to compare and highlight the values
Like this, default vs my race setup (same formatting though):

You instantly see:
Wing -> lowered
Cambers -> lowered
Front Dampers: softer bump, stiffer rebound
Rear Dampers: same bump, stiffer rebound
Differential: coast a lot higher, giving more entry stability (to counter the low wing)
ARBs: softer front, stiffer rear. More towards oversteer
Springs: same as ARBs
Heights: front higher, rear lower (less "swinging") through corners

 

[Raresch]

@Raresch
Just to try and encourage you, you are a quicker driver than me, I started in AC at about the same time as Rasmus. And soon noticed his style of writing particularly appealed to me. And have followed ever since.
( I have also noticed a lot of people provide little gems of knowledge, just to name one @Craig Dunkley I quite often noticed the odd quick but meaning full statement that can easily go unnoticed )
My first RaceDepartment online race I was 7 seconds of the leaders pace, I still considered myself a decent
sim racer. It’s just a matter of perspective.
Since those days I have mainly learnt how to manage a race, and constantly learnt from people how to get quicker.
Basically, I’m just not very quick, just absorbed what information there seems to be to my max.
End of sermon

Thanks for the good words Still, except for the last F3 race from Monza and the Porsche 911 at Watkins event, in all the other races until now I was dead last and lapped multiple times. So You can't be slower if I was the slowest
But I think I start to be faster now. I have more confidence.

 

[Raresch]

See it like that: You'll learn how to do it on your own by learning and seeing what the guys who know their stuff do.
After some time (1-2 years) you'll know how to do it yourself if you keep being interested. You'll start to feel the changes etc.
Then you can share your setups too and continue the circle
Also: the fast guys always search for a challenge. So the more they get the newcomers close to their own pace, the more fun they'll have

Indeed. Once you really know a car you can run setups where a slightly wrong brake or throttle push spins you right round. Or where steering too much will rotate the car into a spin.
But it takes a lot of skill to drive such setups.

Btw, my setup is wing = 0, hehe

If you don't know about it, notepad++ is a great tool I'm using a lot. Download the "compare" plugin and you'll be able to compare setups very easily.
If setup files are differently formatted but the naming is the same (like [WING_2] being at the bottom instead at the top for example, Notepad++ is still able to compare and highlight the values
Like this, default vs my race setup (same formatting though):
View attachment 308695

You instantly see:
Wing -> lowered
Cambers -> lowered
Front Dampers: softer bump, stiffer rebound
Rear Dampers: same bump, stiffer rebound
Differential: coast a lot higher, giving more entry stability (to counter the low wing)
ARBs: softer front, stiffer rear. More towards oversteer
Springs: same as ARBs
Heights: front higher, rear lower (less "swinging") through corners

When I wanted to compare, I was using Notepad vanilla, the one from windows ) But the Notepad++ seems much better. I'll give it a go.

I see that all of them have an effect around the car. But then I start asking myself: what do I change first? Aero and make the springs and camber work from there? Do I solve the understeer first and then the aero? All of them at once?

 

[Neilski]

This is the next one ..09 June ..so get yourself on the grid

Hi Craig - did you move the event back by a week? It's still showing in the calendar as being today (and also next Sunday).

 

[RasmusP]

When I wanted to compare, I was using Notepad vanilla, the one from windows ) But the Notepad++ seems much better. I'll give it a go.

I see that all of them have an effect around the car. But then I start asking myself: what do I change first? Aero and make the springs and camber work from there? Do I solve the understeer first and then the aero? All of them at once?

Testing, practice, testing, practice. Reset, throwing PC out of the window, buying a new wheel and pedals, still suck.
Repeat

It really comes down to experience and staying interested. Plus the occasional inputs like you're getting right now from me and Ernie.
After some time you start to feel and know what you should try first. Is the oversteer due to roll, not enough aero, just weird tyre loss?
You gonna start to be more efficient with more experience.
There are a few rules like fast corner problems = mostly aero, slow corner problems = mostly roll. Both being problematic: camber, toe.
(Unstable when lifting throttle/braking: diff coast
Losing grip too rapidly when accelerating: diff power) -> RWD and FWD highly different as the diff is at the power-axis!

Wanting more highspeed and maybe worth it to lose some time in the corners: lower general aero.

And then you can try to mix and compensate all this. Like lower rear wing but softer rear (arb,springs).
And if it's only for short, dynamic periods like when turning in but mid corner is fine:
slow damper stuff.

But let's talk about this in a different thread. I derailed this race thread enough I think

 

[Raresch]

Testing, practice, testing, practice. Reset, throwing PC out of the window, buying a new wheel and pedals, still suck.
Repeat

It really comes down to experience and staying interested. Plus the occasional inputs like you're getting right now from me and Ernie.
After some time you start to feel and know what you should try first. Is the oversteer due to roll, not enough aero, just weird tyre loss?
You gonna start to be more efficient with more experience.
There are a few rules like fast corner problems = mostly aero, slow corner problems = mostly roll. Both being problematic: camber, toe.
(Unstable when lifting throttle/braking: diff coast
Losing grip too rapidly when accelerating: diff power) -> RWD and FWD highly different as the diff is at the power-axis!

Wanting more highspeed and maybe worth it to lose some time in the corners: lower general aero.

And then you can try to mix and compensate all this. Like lower rear wing but softer rear (arb,springs).
And if it's only for short, dynamic periods like when turning in but mid corner is fine:
slow damper stuff.

But let's talk about this in a different thread. I derailed this race thread enough I think

Yep. we derailed. Sorry for making you go that way This is very good information. I will print it and post it on the wall if you know what I mean
Thanks a lot for the information. I will start looking for threads around the forum and try this and that and so on

 

[RasmusP]

Yep. we derailed. Sorry for making you go that way

Hehe, well I often read that the club threads are also meant for getting to know each other etc. So it's all fine, we shouldn't continue it for multiple pages though

This is very good information. I will print it and post it on the wall if you know what I mean

I'm not kidding, when doing Motec driving analysis to get faster I do it corner by corner and print my notes.
I stick them next to my monitor's sides with some tape to be able to read them while driving.
If you wanna get faster swiftly, it's all about efficiency.
And the most efficient ways are complex, but a few simple rules are to invest time off-track, be intelligent, get help from more experienced/faster drivers and not being shy to ask.

Believe me, after you got yourself to a certain level and took in all that posts, knowledge, books etc, you basically WANT to talk about it with someone.
So newcomers who ask nicely are very welcome to stop us from exploding

 

[Neilski]

I stick them next to my monitor's sides with some tape to be able to read them while driving.

Hehe, when I do that I crash

 

[RasmusP]

Hehe, when I do that I crash

Not suited for all tracks indeed. But Silverstone got 3 nice straights to look at them for example. Or simply to have them quicker in sight when going back to pits/restarting the hotlap session

 

[Craig Dunkley]

Hi Craig - did you move the event back by a week? It's still showing in the calendar as being today (and also next Sunday).

Yes I did, sadly going into hospital later tonight or in the morning ...only in for 1 day, so should be back home to host in the evening ...i messaged all the drivers that had already signed up for this event to inform them

 

[Kek700]

@Raresch
yes i know you think that, but i have followed you on a lot of occasions, i know when people have
a better feel for the sport. but i also know that you have problems getting your setup correct, i also
know you will make a mistake, i also know you lack race experience. So if you observe i will always
just wait for that one moment to safely pass. I have been in the same situation with a very good all
round driver, with these situations i have to wait, perhaps, 10 laps and just hope to wear them down,
it becomes a logistical battle. If i do not have any pace to get away, then i will not try to overtake and
just rely on luck.

Speed in one lap is, at your level, ( and mine ) just a small part of a race. if you just focus on that,
you are making life very difficult for yourself, even if you manage it, you will come across people with
the same pace but with a much better understanding about all the other things you ignored.

There are two reasons at the moment why i do better in races, i never think about my lap times
( in fact it’s predictable, ( for just the ego of the time ) when i do, i come off ), you very rarely see me putting much effort into qualifying. And the second, i am willing to wait a few laps for the race to settle.
Seeing were my race is going by putting in the effort to see whats going on around me, not thrashing
out lap times. if you completely ignore lap speed and totally focused on race distance, making sure to keep out of trouble, both from others and yourself, it will slowly all come together.
And be willing to accept the best laid plans will go wrong.
Sorry about this, as said, needs its own forum, perhaps Rasmus Paddock article would be a more
suitable place.

 

[Craig Dunkley]

@RasmusP ...indeed notepad ++ has been a great tool for me, we all know that I can not race that fast because of my disability, but that does not stop me wanting a great setup. I have been reading and watching videos for the past twelve months In trying to learn how to setup a car. I am far from an engineer, so it does not come naturally for me, after 12 months or so, I have pages and pages of saved data from every corner on the net...I still only know the basics ..but I know a hell of a lot more than I did 12 months ago..maybe in another 12 months I will be whistling

Notepad ++ Allows me to see two setups that I have downloaded, say one is great for corner entry and the other is not? ..I can generally make a one good setup out of the two that is suited to me.

Notepad ++ and it is free

 

[Rui F. Martins]

For you merry band of men that enjoyed the Audi VLN a couple of weeks ago, you'll absolutely love this car.... and....
Do one 20 minute race, and get the second 20 minute race totally free:

@SOLO59
@Fl@sh
@Rui F. Martins
@manu68
@hape
@PfzFantaribo

Seems .like an interesting proposal, but i'm not sure if i will be able to race this sunday

 

[Raresch]

Seems .like an interesting proposal, but i'm not sure if i will be able to race this sunday

The race was rescheduled for 9th of June, same hour.

 

[Raresch]

@Raresch
yes i know you think that, but i have followed you on a lot of occasions, i know when people have
a better feel for the sport. but i also know that you have problems getting your setup correct, i also
know you will make a mistake, i also know you lack race experience. So if you observe i will always
just wait for that one moment to safely pass. I have been in the same situation with a very good all
round driver, with these situations i have to wait, perhaps, 10 laps and just hope to wear them down,
it becomes a logistical battle. If i do not have any pace to get away, then i will not try to overtake and
just rely on luck.

Speed in one lap is, at your level, ( and mine ) just a small part of a race. if you just focus on that,
you are making life very difficult for yourself, even if you manage it, you will come across people with
the same pace but with a much better understanding about all the other things you ignored.

There are two reasons at the moment why i do better in races, i never think about my lap times
( in fact it’s predictable, ( for just the ego of the time ) when i do, i come off ), you very rarely see me putting much effort into qualifying. And the second, i am willing to wait a few laps for the race to settle.
Seeing were my race is going by putting in the effort to see whats going on around me, not thrashing
out lap times. if you completely ignore lap speed and totally focused on race distance, making sure to keep out of trouble, both from others and yourself, it will slowly all come together.
And be willing to accept the best laid plans will go wrong.
Sorry about this, as said, needs its own forum, perhaps Rasmus Paddock article would be a more
suitable place.

it's true I spun in every race until 2 times ago, the TT race, but then I did it again the last lap with F3 at Monza )) So... consistency is not my strongest point. Maybe I should work at this first.

 

[Rui F. Martins]

The race was rescheduled for 9th of June, same hour.

The problem is the next weekend, this one i would be able to race

 

[Raresch]

The problem is the next weekend, this one i would be able to race

I see. Sorry I have misunderstood your first comment.

 

[eliseo]

Register please

 

[Raresch]

Hehe, well I often read that the club threads are also meant for getting to know each other etc. So it's all fine, we shouldn't continue it for multiple pages though

I'm not kidding, when doing Motec driving analysis to get faster I do it corner by corner and print my notes.
I stick them next to my monitor's sides with some tape to be able to read them while driving.
If you wanna get faster swiftly, it's all about efficiency.
And the most efficient ways are complex, but a few simple rules are to invest time off-track, be intelligent, get help from more experienced/faster drivers and not being shy to ask.

Believe me, after you got yourself to a certain level and took in all that posts, knowledge, books etc, you basically WANT to talk about it with someone.
So newcomers who ask nicely are very welcome to stop us from exploding

I know you weren't kidding. I just saw your posts from some time ago were you've said this exact same thing and I found it very usefull.