rF2 S397 GT3 With New TyreModel @ Road America - Fri 17 Feb 2023

[Jan Larsen]

Had to stop due to crazy vibrations in my steering wheel although I don’t think I had flat spots. It started gradually until it wasn’t bearable and shaking my whole rig (which is very sturdy)

I think I reduced dampening in my ffb some time ago, could it be related? I know you should feel flat spots but this just fell different.

If you abuse the tires or run them down too far, you'll get bad wheel shake. I have a 2nd profile on my wheel I can shift to on a straight if it gets too bad.

 

[Jan Larsen]

Did you guys run mediums? How much tire was left at the end?

Hards. about 58% left except for the LF which was at about 50%. The performance is very close to the soft and mediums, but with a lot better tire life.

 

[David Steinacher]

I don't know what I should think about the new tire model It feels like I'm killing them. Was on 30 left front ... hards.

Also had a hard time finding a setup. The default was horrible but I don't have that much experience with finding a good setup.

Anyway had a decent start and had fun especialy the fight(s) with @Hartmut2 were great (more frustrating for him I guess )

Find the difference:
Lap 1

Lap 14

Lap 16

It was great seeing such a huge grid ... loved it

 

[Jan Larsen]

I don't know what I should think about the new tire model It feels like I'm killing them. Was on 30 left front ... hards.

Yeah, I'm also split on the tire model. It feels great in light formula or prototype cars (The Oreca really came to life), but heavier tintops like BTCC and GT's feels terrible really. I'm sure its compounded by the absolutely terrible default setups, something S397 thankfully has acknowledged, but the tire update should never have been released without updated defaults, thats just a major error. I know developing default setups for so many cars takes time, but it should have been done. Regardless of setup; you'll need to adjust your driving style for these tires, you simply need to be smooth with your input. If you dont already have it, get a dash app to monitor tire temps through the corner (especially like the long right hander here) and watch if you're getting the tire in the red zone. If you do, wear explodes. While I battled Michael, I always had an eye on this, trying to nuture it as much as possible. It didnt quite work this time.
Again, dont be afraid to ask for setups here, or on the server. I did and while not perfect, it still transformed the car.

 

[Hartmut2]

I don't know what I should think about the new tire model It feels like I'm killing them. Was on 30 left front ... hards.

Also had a hard time finding a setup. The default was horrible but I don't have that much experience with finding a good setup.

Anyway had a decent start and had fun especialy the fight(s) with @Hartmut2 were great (more frustrating for him I guess )

Find the difference:
Lap 1

View attachment 641217Lap 14

View attachment 641218Lap 16

View attachment 641219

It was great seeing such a huge grid ... loved it

not frustrating at all... was a fun battle and I hope I did not make too many mistakes.
I was a little bit unsure after my early fault at overtaking someone. Cant remember who it was!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Had to stop due to crazy vibrations in my steering wheel although I don’t think I had flat spots. It started gradually until it wasn’t bearable and shaking my whole rig (which is very sturdy)

Weird. I notice flatspots a lot more in all cars with new tyres, but other than that, nothing.

Did you guys run mediums? How much tire was left at the end?

If you go here: https://ommyrvold.net/rdrf2/feb23.html
Click "races" then "3.Roa" and "R Sectors/Laps" and scroll down, you can see everyones tyres at the end of each lap. I finished with 40.8 on front left and 36.5 on rear left with mediums. But I took it really carefully the first few laps and had less tyre wear than Michael and Jan had with hards those two laps.

By looking at that @groy1980 your tyre wear are amazing. You used about half as much tyres as Michael and Jan did with hards. If you drive like that all the time, you could easily go with soft tyres instead of medium!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

My car died in the middle of lap 2 , gearing wouldn't work at all, stupid game

I see it was registered as a wrecked engine. I wonder how that's even possible with the shift protection! :o

 

[_Ken Scott]

I see it was registered as a wrecked engine. I wonder how that's even possible with the shift protection! :o

Shift projection? More like a negative, I was having a hard time because it wasn't letting me shift up and down when I wanted to

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

I don't know what I should think about the new tire model It feels like I'm killing them. Was on 30 left front ... hards.

Also had a hard time finding a setup. The default was horrible but I don't have that much experience with finding a good setup.

It was great seeing such a huge grid ... loved it

Yeah, I'm also split on the tire model. It feels great in light formula or prototype cars (The Oreca really came to life), but heavier tintops like BTCC and GT's feels terrible really. I'm sure its compounded by the absolutely terrible default setups, something S397 thankfully has acknowledged, but the tire update should never have been released without updated defaults, thats just a major error. I know developing default setups for so many cars takes time, but it should have been done. Regardless of setup; you'll need to adjust your driving style for these tires, you simply need to be smooth with your input. If you dont already have it, get a dash app to monitor tire temps through the corner (especially like the long right hander here) and watch if you're getting the tire in the red zone. If you do, wear explodes. While I battled Michael, I always had an eye on this, trying to nuture it as much as possible. It didnt quite work this time.
Again, dont be afraid to ask for setups here, or on the server. I did and while not perfect, it still transformed the car.

I like them better than the old ones, but you have to drive a bit smoother and calmer. Not so much throwing the car around qual-style lap after lap. I think that's a good thing.
But man, they need to get new setups out on Tuesday when the Q1 drops. Sheesh.

I did notice if I pushed through the long right-hander, I could use 2-4% on the front left with softs, so tyre management is a proper thing. Needing some adjustment of mindset!

It was great seeing such a huge grid ... loved it

It was! I truly hope that the update that means you only need to buy what you want to drive yourself, but can race against other content will bring more people to rF2 and back to rF2
The more the merrier!

I also think that we now have a good group of people of all skill levels, so regardless where you are in the field, we have drivers around the same level. That's also a great thing, as it pushes everyone, and it is even more fun!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Shift projection? More like a negative, I was having a hard time because it wasn't letting me shift up and down when I wanted to

That was my biggest problem yesterday too. That I had to be off throttle to shift down, I am so used to blipping - even when the cars have paddles...
And that it sometimes wouldn't let me shift one gear down.

From what I've read about it though, this is actually realistic. Same as the Audi (I think), the slow and fast bump (or rebound) in the suspension are connected, so if you change one, both changes. This is also technically correct for the Audi(!).

 

[_Ken Scott]

That was my biggest problem yesterday too. That I had to be off throttle to shift down, I am so used to blipping - even when the cars have paddles...
And that it sometimes wouldn't let me shift one gear down.

From what I've read about it though, this is actually realistic. Same as the Audi (I think), the slow and fast bump (or rebound) in the suspension are connected, so if you change one, both changes. This is also technically correct for the Audi(!).

Glad I wasn't the only one having problems, only on the gt3s have i had this happen in rf2, other cars haven't had this problem , think I need to tinker with settings more next time I drive gt3

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Glad I wasn't the only one having problems, only on the gt3s have i had this happen in rf2, other cars haven't had this problem , think I need to tinker with settings more next time I have drive gt3

Needs some time to get used to I guess. I_Bellet on the S397 forum found this from the Porsche 991.2 Cup Car Manual, while that's not a GT3, it gives some insight:

If I understand this correctly, the car will not shift up if you have less than 20% throttle, and will not shift down if you have more than 20% throttle.
There was also a 113 page pdf shared. That was a masters degree thesis, and was about Gearbox Control Unit for paddle-shift system. With drive by wire (electronical throttle control). Which also indicates that throttle position isn't necessarily the same as actual pedal position.

Now, rF2 (or any other sim) doesn't simulate this to the degree where you can go in an "program" how the drive by wire system will work, and "write" your own software for it. But I wouldn't be surprised if different sims have different ways to attack this issue, and thus the systems behaving differently from different games.
The fact that the shift protection works differently on the GT3 cars from S397 when compared to LMP2, GTE or BTCC (at least it feels like it), probably means that they are going off some manuals/data from teams and/or manufacturers.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

From what I've read about it though, this is actually realistic. Same as the Audi (I think), the slow and fast bump (or rebound) in the suspension are connected, so if you change one, both changes. This is also technically correct for the Audi(!).

Regarding this - apparently (as I cannot find a direct quote from googling). It was Aris from Kunos (Mr.Physics there), that said that Audi only had a 2way damper adjustment IRL. However, Kunos added 4way damper adjustment (so bump, rebound, fast, slow etc. separated), as the teams can open up the dampers and tune them that way in real life. But if it was a "less skilled" or "less risky" customer team, they would only have 2way adjustment, so no fast damping adjustment.

It seems like rFactor 2 has gone the route of having the "factory" settings, and not what teams potentially can do with their cars if they want to open up the dampers.
Well, at least when it comes to dampers on the GT3 cars.

 

[Jan Larsen]

The upshift protection dosent make any sense to me after giving it some thought. If its like real life, fine, but I still dont see the point. I can handle the downshift protection and shift around it (incl. machine gunning it down the box), but the upshift protection? No.

 

[Michael Rudolf]

I agree. Just need S397 to make some good default setups, so you don't need a race engineer (cough* thanks for the Audi setup @Michael Rudolf ) to have a stable setup!
I hope they will update default setups in a few days

You're welcome! Hope it was ok, felt alright for me. Don't consider myself to be any good at setups but it took me like 10 minutes and it seemed drivable, no idea why they could not get at least a decent default released. Liked the Audi though, a bit more work on the setup and I might actually give that car a shot at some point.

Thankfully he was very kind and acutally give it to me, its not everyday you see that when you usually fight for the win with the guy you're asking setups for. I owe you one

No worries, mate! After all it's just club racing. It made a really good race, feels much better to have won like that than being 20 secs ahead easily

Michael being 7 tenths faster was bit shocking - either he found a shortcut, a setup secret or simply nailed the lap, well done

Used the exact same setup that I sent you, it was just a good lap really. Had spent quite some time testing the cars finding their limits so that helped a lot.

To my surprise I could keep up, I genuinely thought Michael would be lapping the high 2.04's, but that wasnt the case. We were very evenly matched over the lap, lapping in the 2.05's, then the 2.06's where we stayed most of the race.

With these new tires the GT3s feel a lot like the GTEs now so I knew what to expect. You really have to be a lot smoother, it's all about tire management. I had tested all tires before and figured mediums would be tough for me to keep alive. Even with hards I knew I had to restrain myself a lot. I knew 2.04s would be impossible to keep up with this tire model. I found that for me T1 and the Carousel were the worst spots so I deliberately lost a few tenths there trying to gain an advantage later on.

me getting past after a small mistake

Yea that was me overdoing tire saving. Tried so hard to not make them squeak that I ran out of track. Nice move there making it stick

Michael re-passing me after I got a poor exit out of T1, me trying to keep up but ultimately he just had a bit more pace in the end where I started to struggle a little after overheating the tires in the 2nd half of the race.

After you had passed I figured my best chance would be trying to keep on saving tires while staying close which worked alright. Lost a bit in the corners I knew hurt the most and regained in other parts. Looking at the stats I had like 5% less wear at some point and probably also cooler tires so I could put a bit more pressure on. Your T1 mistake eventually let me pass you again and after a while all the saving seemed to pay off and I had a little gap to manage. Really nice race all round!

 

[Michael Rudolf]

I don't know what I should think about the new tire model It feels like I'm killing them. Was on 30 left front ... hards.

Exactly like Jan said, you have to be a lot smoother in the race now. I always have an eye on tire wear at all times. I use simhub overlays, they work well for me visually. Check during practice which corners are the worst and take a little pace out at those, a tenth or two lost there will still pay off in the long run.
Also it became really important to tune the setups to as equal as possible tire wear now. If fronts or rear wear a lot more than the other (means you can see it after 1-2 laps already) you may have to adjust setup and / or driving style. So one side worn out more means adjust towards more over- or understeer. If not that will completely destroy the cars balance and you'll end up sliding and overheating the already worn tire even more. In this race I actually made the rear slide a bit in T1 at times to protect / cool the left front and equal things out.
My setup abilities are limited but I'll happily give you mine if I have one for that car. Probably not going to do one for four different cars again any time soon though but you know which car I most often use

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

My setup abilities are limited but I'll happily give you mine if I have one for that car. Probably not going to do one for four different cars again any time soon though but you know which car I most often use

Maybe they are, but I got a 5th in the Audi, considering the field, that is a bit higher than I normally would get, so I am very happy with the setup!

 

[Magnus Dahlgren]

Perhaps a bit late to the party but on the subject of tyres! That's what I had left after crossing the finish line. It was some time ago that I had driven the GT3's in rF2 and my memory convinced me that soft were manageable for a 50min race but as it turns out with the new tyre model it was a more risky strategy move than before. I'm actually happy in the end that I was able to keep going with the speed I had despite the tricky front left, was losing that tyre at a rate of 3/1 compared to the other three! I think that I would have been able to fend off the mighty @Ole Marius Myrvold better with medium or hard on the front...

On the vibration side of things I was expecting a huge rattle but it was very minimal,. much better than previous which to me felt almost exaggerated, even the slightest lock up usually felt like you were driving with cubes rather than wheels.

Anyway, cheers for the race, it was fun racing the old 650S with you all!

 

[sisco55]

Hello.

I had a great time in the race, managing the tires was complicated, but I like them.
I have seen that two more races have been done with the gt3, but I am not able to find a calendar with the following races.

Thank you.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Hello.

I had a great time in the race, managing the tires was complicated, but I like them.
I have seen that two more races have been done with the gt3, but I am not able to find a calendar with the following races.

Thank you.

We'll in the general keep the Friday-races like this:
Week 1: Multiclass (LMP & GTE unless something new and cool releases that's worth trying)
Week 2: Singleclass (GT3 unless something new and cool releases that's worth trying)
Week 3: Multiclass (LMP & GTE unless something new and cool releases that's worth trying)
Week 4: Singleclass(GT3 unless something new and cool releases that's worth trying)

And so on So Friday 3rd March will be the next GT3 event