Cars RSS GT1 Championship

[Mitja Bonca]

I've mentioned this before.

This GT1 pack: there's a big problem with the ai. They crash out loads, often making races unraceable. I like the physics and the models but I often can't be bothered to use this anymore as the ai problems are so frequent. This doesn't happen with other ai. Other users have mentioned his problem too. The Nordschliefe with this mod is just a waste of time.

I'm guessing: is it something to do with the ai's hard suspension.

Has this problem even been looked at? I'm hoping I've missed an update.

On my new track ai of GT1 runs like a charm For the 1st time ever, I can hardly keep up with the front runners and they are on 98% of their speed.

 

[AccAkut]

Maybe it's possible to improve the AI behavior a bit but it seems like AC generally has problems with cars that have a big power/grip ratio or what else causes these mistakes. The F1 GTR or mods like the Turbinchen have got the same problems, even the LMP1 cars crash from time to time.

I spend a lot of trail and error to get Turbinchen to stay on track - but Nords just has issues because of the narrowness of the tarmac.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

I don't find that to be the case. GT3 cars, for example, crash approx. 10 times less than RSS GT1.

I do not have any quantifiable numbers on this but the rule of thumb in general is that the more difficult a car + setup + track combination, the higher the chances the AI will struggle to stay on the track.

With Assetto Corsa I usually run the AI at 100% but on difficult tracks (for example Nordschleife or certain mod tracks) I completely turn down the aggression.
If you leave the aggression on usually working values with Kunos made GP tracks and Kunos cars (such as Kunos GT3 cars), the AI will 100% fail with difficult tracks and mod cars (ANY high powered mod cars). You can actually experience this just by taking really high powered cars such as LMP1 class cars to the Nordschleife and turn the aggression up - the AI will not make it past Hatzenbach without at least a major incident (the last time I experienced this was a few AC revisions ago, this may or may not have changed with AI changes by now).

The RSS made setups for the GT package are a relatively solid baseline for human drivers to start their setups from. I am sure they are unsuitable for the AI to be able to run these cars on every track (too low, stiff and too nervous on breaking to be suitable for a wide variety of tracks, ESPECIALLY tracks as the Nordschleife).

I also think that it would be a tall order to ask RSS to make single standard setups for the AI that have to work on a variety of tracks from Nordschleife to Monza (especially unrealistic as these GT1 cars never raced on the Nordschleife in the 2003/'04 package RSS has built.

If you want to improve the AI experience with these cars, you absolutely have to dial down aggression, maybe even the driving skill level and you should look into making more forgiving standard setups for the AI to use.

Another point that I am curious about is the transmission these cars are using, that need rev-matching on down shifts. Does the AI have issues with that? I know I did when I drove these cars for the first time and had the occasional spin in the breaking zone until I learned about it.

 

[AlleyViper]

Another point that I am curious about is the transmission these cars are using, that need rev-matching on down shifts. Does the AI have issues with that? I know I did when I drove these cars for the first time and had the occasional spin in the breaking zone until I learned about it.

Edit: It has. I've previously reported it (link1, link2) -- no need to repost, hence the edit -- but sorting that single detail isn't enough to make them drive safely in many critical track points, specially on curbs.

PS: IIRC A user in this thread also reported better AI results by disabling tyre blankets.

 

[Leonardo Ratafiá]

On the nordschleife is where Kunos had his mayor headaches trying to make the AI work properly so I don't think the rss guys have the time or will to make them run flawlessly on the ring, specially if they ever raced there irl?

 

[AlleyViper]

Still, having them do nicer on something more fitting like Spa or Monza would be great for offline players. Nords is almost asking too much.

This mod is still WIP, so I'm positive RSS will still have a word on this.

 

[davewilliams000]

Edit: It has. I've previously reported it (link1, link2) -- no need to repost, hence the edit -- but sorting that single detail isn't enough to make them drive safely in many critical track points, specially on curbs.

PS: IIRC A user in this thread also reported better AI results by disabling tyre blankets.

Think that was me. I was actually mistaken, it's penalties that need to be turned off. It was affecting the AI with GT3s as well

 

[RufGTI]

I spend a lot of trail and error to get Turbinchen to stay on track - but Nords just has issues because of the narrowness of the tarmac.

I didn't want to accuse you of doing something wrong

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Thanks, all, for your feedback on this problem the AI have.

I'd like to experiment by changing the AIs' setups. Is there a way to do this? I only know how to make changes to my own, the player's, setups. (And I know very little about changing setups anyway).

Can anyone tell me how I'd change AIs' setup? Especially how to soften suspension? Other setup chnages you'd think may help?

 

[speedyx56]

Only thing left to do for now is to submit it I think

In case anyone wants to use the scrutineering sticker I made up : .psd

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Thanks, all, for your feedback on this problem the AI have.

I'd like to experiment by changing the AIs' setups. Is there a way to do this? I only know how to make changes to my own, the player's, setups. (And I know very little about changing setups anyway).

Can anyone tell me how I'd change AIs' setup? Especially how to soften suspension? Other setup chnages you'd think may help?

Here are two pointers to start with - I did not try this myself but from what I gather the custom AI setup is not fixed - the AI will change certain variables autonomously (i.e. tires, aero, gearing, fuel, …):

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/force-ai-to-use-custom-setups.135195/

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ai-setups.141364/

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Here are two pointers to start with - I did not try this myself but from what I gather the custom AI setup is not fixed - the AI will change certain variables autonomously (i.e. tires, aero, gearing, fuel, …):

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/force-ai-to-use-custom-setups.135195/

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ai-setups.141364/

Thanks for this. I've looked through it. Seems like it's going to demand quite some time from me. Time I don't have. I can't help thinking that as this is a paid mod that the creators should be attempting to fix this themselves so that those who have paid in good faith have a product that works as they expected it would when they decided to buy it.

If I had known that the RSS GT1 mod's AI would make me rage quit like I never have before, I would have done something else with my €15.

 

[Dirk Steffen]

Thanks for this. I've looked through it. Seems like it's going to demand quite some time from me. Time I don't have. I can't help thinking that as this is a paid mod that the creators should be attempting to fix this themselves so that those who have paid in good faith have a product that works as they expected it would when they decided to buy it.

If I had known that the RSS GT1 mod's AI would make me rage quit like I never have before, I would have done something else with my €15.

The RSS car mods do not come with an AI.
The only thing they come with is a default setup that can be used by the AI Kunos has programmed.

RSS can only work with what the base software offers and people who install mods and tinker with Assetto Corsa mostly are aware of that (who didn't follow the many iterations of the AI and the well documented challenges Stefano as faced in improving the AI to what we have now?).

The Assetto Corsa AI works within a fixed set of parameters - in short, it is optimized for a small variety of cars on a very limited set of tracks and even with that given set not all are perfect.

No-one can possibly expect for an independent mod maker to fix the Kunos AI to fit their specialized mod.
The majority of people also may not be happy if RSS would ship the mod cars with a default setup that may suit the AI to more safe driving on tracks these cars never raced on.

Please for people to be able to help you, let us know exactly what car and track combinations you have issues with and what exactly happens with what settings.
It may be reasonable to expect the RSS cars to work well on tracks these cars really raced on. Take them with the AI on the Nordschleife or on third party mod tracks and all bets are off.

Just yesterday I had an amazing race against the AI at 100% and 0% aggression at Silverstone GP in the rain (using Content Manager + Boese weather mod). It was truly amazing how the race against the AI turned out.
There were occasional mistakes (the kind one would expect humans do make at occasion) but there was no issues as it sounds from your description. The AI was competitive and raced well without strange behaviors.

 

[hazardic]

mod-edit: you can post your videos here http://www.racedepartment.com/media/

 

[AccAkut]

The RSS car mods do not come with an AI.
The only thing they come with is a default setup that can be used by the AI Kunos has programmed.

RSS can only work with what the base software offers and people who install mods and tinker with Assetto Corsa mostly are aware of that (who didn't follow the many iterations of the AI and the well documented challenges Stefano as faced in improving the AI to what we have now?).

The Assetto Corsa AI works within a fixed set of parameters - in short, it is optimized for a small variety of cars on a very limited set of tracks and even with that given set not all are perfect.

No-one can possibly expect for an independent mod maker to fix the Kunos AI to fit their specialized mod.
The majority of people also may not be happy if RSS would ship the mod cars with a default setup that may suit the AI to more safe driving on tracks these cars never raced on.

Please for people to be able to help you, let us know exactly what car and track combinations you have issues with and what exactly happens with what settings.
It may be reasonable to expect the RSS cars to work well on tracks these cars really raced on. Take them with the AI on the Nordschleife or on third party mod tracks and all bets are off.

Just yesterday I had an amazing race against the AI at 100% and 0% aggression at Silverstone GP in the rain (using Content Manager + Boese weather mod). It was truly amazing how the race against the AI turned out.
There were occasional mistakes (the kind one would expect humans do make at occasion) but there was no issues as it sounds from your description. The AI was competitive and raced well without strange behaviors.

wouldn't agree 100%, as there are still parameters in the ai.ini we need to fill to create a car's behaviour and which the Kunos AI algorithms use to drive the car. You can even make the worst car "work" by being very conservative on these. Maybe the cars are too close to 100 for aero and tire hint at the moment, I don't know.

Then again RSS has stated that they WILL review all GT1 cars once all cars are finished, to make them work better as a pack, and AI issues will be addressed too I suppose

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

The RSS car mods do not come with an AI.
The only thing they come with is a default setup that can be used by the AI Kunos has programmed.

RSS can only work with what the base software offers and people who install mods and tinker with Assetto Corsa mostly are aware of that (who didn't follow the many iterations of the AI and the well documented challenges Stefano as faced in improving the AI to what we have now?).

The Assetto Corsa AI works within a fixed set of parameters - in short, it is optimized for a small variety of cars on a very limited set of tracks and even with that given set not all are perfect.

No-one can possibly expect for an independent mod maker to fix the Kunos AI to fit their specialized mod.
The majority of people also may not be happy if RSS would ship the mod cars with a default setup that may suit the AI to more safe driving on tracks these cars never raced on.

Please for people to be able to help you, let us know exactly what car and track combinations you have issues with and what exactly happens with what settings.
It may be reasonable to expect the RSS cars to work well on tracks these cars really raced on. Take them with the AI on the Nordschleife or on third party mod tracks and all bets are off.

Just yesterday I had an amazing race against the AI at 100% and 0% aggression at Silverstone GP in the rain (using Content Manager + Boese weather mod). It was truly amazing how the race against the AI turned out.
There were occasional mistakes (the kind one would expect humans do make at occasion) but there was no issues as it sounds from your description. The AI was competitive and raced well without strange behaviors.

Thanks a lot for your reply.
What you say is mostly right. And I know that the AI is actually dependent on Kunos's programming, not the mod's.
My previous post(s) on this topic was angling at there being a solution in how the AIs' cars are set up.

I will try out this GT1 mod at Silverstone, as you suggest, and stick to using Kunos's own tracks with this mod. I hope it helps.

As I said, I wonder if a set up change would help across the board - i.e. softer suspension?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Then again RSS has stated that they WILL review all GT1 cars once all cars are finished, to make them work better as a pack, and AI issues will be addressed too I suppose

Well, that'd be good. I'll just use other cars in the meantime. And there are a lot to choose from

 

[dingers01]

Is it possible you can share the spreadsheet?

Sure! Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been away.
RD won't allow .xlsb file (only .xls) so trim the extension (....xlsb.xls => ....xlsb)
It ain't pretty I'm afraid, but it works.

 

[CC]

So how many other projects are planned for release before finishing this one?

Michael,
we have been through this a few times before, and we explain each time the situation,
the team is always here and always available and the team is always transparent we aim to hide nothing,
but yet build a community of members who all appreciate the content that we make,

all the cars are complete and finished you can clearly see in the thread all the work that has been carried out by the team, the last car to be painted is the 57 in which we opened the templates so the community can have fun painting the car, its the last car to be completed,

but has I mentioned before even if the cars was all finished at xmas there is physics and then there is audio there is a schedule we have planned for these cars, so cars are finished but have not yet the audio support,
I mean keep been negative and complaining is doing no good for anyone,

soon these cars will be all finished then we can look at the AI and maybe give the cars different default setup values to make some more competitive than others,

its a massive amount of work creating these cars and the dev has been clearly shown,
if there is 3x 3D artist making the pack and 1x Physics and 1x audio,

how can you even expect when you see a model finished 100% it will be released straight away lol ?
I mean life does not work like this I explained before to you these same things,
so why do you keep asking silly questions and saying silly things ?

please be patient the cars are all been completed by the team soon it will be all finished released and updated,

regarding cars been released each year we have a special opportunity to have fun and create something unique like the formula hybrid,
which all the team loves building and creating because they are special cars that give design freedoms,
so this car would have been built and released even if we was making 100 packs makes no difference,
I explained many many times before to you the same things but yet you keep still asking the same questions.

I mean how many times do you want us to show you the cars are complete ?

 

[CC]

videos can be posted here http://www.racedepartment.com/media/