AC RSS FIA GT @ Road America - Sunday 8th January 2023

[RasmusP]

If you do that, don,t you lose SOL?

Yes and no. Since there are no sol weathers used on RD races, it doesn't really do anything anyway.
It looks a tiny bit different but to watch a replay, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Reik Major]

I was a bit surprised by taking the pole as I did not tinker too much with setup. A high 2'02 was certainly possible but didn't get the lap together.

I didn't put my car in gear before the lights went out and Reik had a great start and jumped me. For about 15 minutes we were quite equal on pace but after that I started to suffer from the tire wear. I didn't try any stint length and didn't expect the medium to go off so quickly. Reik (also on mediums) pulled away, not sure if the Saleen was grippier at that point or he just coped with the tires wearing better. We stopped at the same time mid-race, I was some 8 seconds behind at that point and jumped him in the pits. Not sure if the refueling of the Lamborghini goes faster. I took 24 liters there and started with 100.. Same story for the second stint, later in the stint Reik had a clear advantage in pace. He did overtake me nicely going into T1. I had to slow down too much for that corner on the inside and lost all speed but nicely done! I finished the race in P2 some 8 seconds behind again. Good race all in all, no mistakes and it was fun to drive.

About the warping, it was odd. Was it server related or me? I saw cars warping around me quite a bit but my ping seemed to be quite steady 40-ish. Sorry if it was me @Cristian Haba .. I never have this issue.

Just a small tip for the blue flags. Not sure who it was but I had a few who decelerated on the racing line into a corner. Try doing so off the racing line if possible. Just a small remark as the blue flag was well respected.

Thanks Brian for putting this together and looking forward to the next one with these cars!

I asume the refueling takes the same time for any car (?).

I didn't know how good my pace would be and I didn't have much time to test this combo much before. So I was very happy to be able to fight for the top this night. This car-track-combo is sooooo much fun to drive because I love this track, I love this car since GTR Evolutione and I was able to feel and anticipate the car's movements in each situation, so this definitely helped being fast.

With his race report Laurent already discribed my race very well. From the voice chat prior the race I was expecting many drivers to start with a completly filled up car. So I decided to start with 86 liters, having to refuel 40 liters later in the race. I knew I had to take advantage of a slightly lighter car in the first stint, which worked out more or less.

One big moment in T1 after 8 laps or so, cost me about 5 seconds. Otherwise there had been a chance, my fuel strategy worked out before leaving the pits with the same final amount of fuel. But as Laurent mentioned, I was able to overtake him later and win the race.

I think I was lucky to have a pretty nicely balanced car, so it perfectly did what I wanted it to do without sliding into a corner, too much or any power oversteer. Nevertheless it turned in great and pushed nicely out of corners. Maybe this had a positive impact on my tyre wear, because I was able to drive the fastest laptime in the penultimate lap (tyre app showing wear in yellow). So here's my setup...

Thanks to Brian for hosting this event and to all participants for sharing their passion here.

 

[Reik Major]

About the warping, it was odd. Was it server related or me? I saw cars warping around me quite a bit but my ping seemed to be quite steady 40-ish. Sorry if it was me @Cristian Haba .. I never have this issue.

Yeah, your car made a few quick warps here and there, which made it hard to follow close.

We had one big moment, when I chased you down the back straight in your slip stream, when all of a sudden your car warped back a few meters right at my front bumper. I think we slightly touched while I jumped on the brakes for a splitt second. By luck it happened in a straight line, so no consequences.

 

[cerebralvortex]

Yeah, your car made a few quick warps here and there, which made it hard to follow close.

We had one big moment, when I chased you down the back straight in your slip stream, when all of a sudden your car warped back a few meters right at my front bumper. I think we slightly touched while I jumped on the brakes for a splitt second. By luck it happened in a straight line, so no consequences.

I think my power lines were acting up a bit. Very sorry about that. I think plugging them in/out after a time resets things. I was quite wary myself being close to other cars.

 

[Interslice]

Where can I find the results of the race? Interested to see how the cars stacked up.

There you go

https://simresults.net/230110-I5t

 

[cerebralvortex]

There you go

https://simresults.net/230110-I5t

Thanks, great to see!

I noticed during the race from following Reik that the Saleen had much better mid corner speed and I can see that now in the sector times as well. Quite interesting. Maybe something that can be tuned on the Lambo.. The race gaps graph is also nice!

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks, great to see!

I noticed during the race from following Reik that the Saleen had much better mid corner speed and I can see that now in the sector times as well. Quite interesting. Maybe something that can be tuned on the Lambo.. The race gaps graph is also nice!

I've found that at least with the Lister, the rear wing along ride height, suspension and ARBs make a huge difference to top speed vs cornering speed.

The rear wing determines the speed and the rest balances out the over-/understeer caused by it.

For Road America, since I didn't have much practice apart from 15 laps around Imola and 3 laps around RA, I chose to raise the rear wing a bit to be safe.
Iirc 3 clicks higher than default. Had to shorten 5th & 6th due to it!

Then I lowered the front arb by 2 clicks, front suspension 1 click, ride height front -3 clicks and rear +2 clicks.

Felt quite good!


Btw with these cars I can really recommend using Camber Extravaganza!
It works without issues and I could see why I was losing control over any kerbs.
The front stayed in the green, so maximum grip when being at its peak but the rear went into the red and lost grip.

So I lowered the front camber by 2 clicks and raised the rear camber by 3 clicks.
This has an interesting effect:

While cornering without kerbs, the rear would stay blue, while the front was green. So max grip at the front, slightly less grip at the rear.
Making it less understeery through the long downhill corner and the fast right afterwards.

But if you touch a kerb, the fronts will go into the red, losing grip, while the rears would become green, getting max grip.

I think this really helped me a lot!
I wasn't the fastest of the midpack, not at all!
But I could keep up through the turns without risk and hope for slipstream down the straights and then overtake savely when a mistake happened

I'll attach my setup later today so you can check for yourself!

 

[Reik Major]

Thanks, great to see!

I noticed during the race from following Reik that the Saleen had much better mid corner speed and I can see that now in the sector times as well. Quite interesting. Maybe something that can be tuned on the Lambo.. The race gaps graph is also nice!

The high weight of this Saleen's driver resulted in some extra downforce.

 

[RasmusP]

Ofc I didn't save after my last adjustment...
But this should be it! To guarantee for the correct PSI and I'm not sure about the front wheelrate.
Might need 1 click stiffer!

I started with 100L fuel, this setup has only 60L in it.
Drove very similar down to the last 15L so fuel consumption and tyre wear worked nicely balanced!

 

[The Almighty Snark]

But if you touch a kerb, the fronts will go into the red, losing grip, while the rears would become green, getting max grip.

How do you see such information like this? Do you check it in MoTeC or is there some sort of realtime info that shows it better?

 

[RasmusP]

How do you see such information like this? Do you check it in MoTeC or is there some sort of realtime info that shows it better?

On the phone right now but just search for "Camber Extravaganza".
It's an AC hud app that reads out the car data and solves the equation for camber vs grip in "real time" and shows it on 1 graph per tyre!

Blue = too much camber for max grip
Green = max grip
Red = too low camber

From a basic idea of the equation, I'll use phantasy numbers:
2 degrees too much camber = 90% grip
Linearily to 100% at 0° wrong camber (= perfect camber)

Then drops off massively to something like:
2 degrees too low camber = 50% grip

The 10% between too much camber and perfect camber is definitely noticeable on the lap time, so you should try to nail it.
And lower camber/perfect camber = better braking and acceleration!

But if the graphs go red, you'll start to slide!

With understeery cars it can be useful to have green camber at the fronts and slightly red camber on the rear to get into a mild drift with great acceleration.

But with the RSS GT1, seeing any red camber on the rear while cornering means a spin for me.

So with difficult and oversteery cars like the GT1, I tend to set the camber to show red on the fronts and blue to green on the rear while going over exit kerbs.
It has the advantage that up to the apex, the rears will be deep blue and the fronts almost green, tending towards oversteer before you go on the throttle.

I can't see the full text on my phone and texted while eating so if some sentences don't make any sense, that's why

--------------------------------

Download camber extravaganza, put the 4 graphs right in front of your eyes and if you can, record your session with obs or the GPU inbuilt tools.
Sadly the app won't record the traces and they also don't show in replays. So you have to figure it out while driving, or record your session.


Additionally:
The issue with AC is that in reality, you could use the inside/middle/outside tyre temperatures to set the camber.
Or you'd use some sensors/camera to check the angle of the tyre to the surface.
Both is useless in AC, since the temps aren't really influenced by camber, toe etc., the visuals aren't 1:1 the physics and the wheel angle is the angle to the chassis (so you'd have to combine it with the chassis roll and suspension position).

But even then the equation is different to "Having the wheel slightly more than 0° to the surface".
So just use Camber Extravaganza. It's perfect!

 

[The Almighty Snark]

Excellent write up Rasmus! So ideally you'd want to grip be in the green yellow bit of the graph just before it dips below the line in the red? Or should it really be just in the green zone? Been experimenting with it and so far it has taught me so much about how Camber works and affects the car!

 

[Kek700]

Just a side note.
Your camber is dynamic, so even if you get it all in the best ballpark, quite often you need to add some extra dynamic camber.
So if you end up with -3 deg, it may be quicker to go to 3,4 deg.
it is also noticeable on the rear wheel drive camber, it is telling you to go to -2deg. You will find the car is power oversteering, there is not enough dynamic camber to solve every bump and every undulation, in every corner.
This is especially noticeable in powerful rear-wheel drive cars, 500Nm of torque on a car with one rear drive wheel with +ve camber, and you are gone.
even TC will not save you.
I always go for the correct camber, then start to tweak the camber front and rear to get what I want.

 

[JamKart22]

I had a play on the 911 RSR and was surprised how much it needed to changed from default to get into the green. From memory it was something like -3.5% default and I had to have it around -1.5%. Does this seem about right or have I overcorrected?

 

[Alfred Wayne]

I usually just trying and get most tires in the green for most turns along with keeping an ear open to any tire squeal (need more negative camber)

@JamKart22 On the right side of the screen at the set up, you'll see camber listed on track, which many times varies from the numbers on the left, setup. I know for the mx5, the default set up numbers are -0.9 for the rear, but on the right info, it says that ends up equaling -1.8 or so and vice versa (So your -1.5 may still end up being -2.2 something on track whereas the -3.5 could have been -4.X on track)

Your numbers listed are familiar to me having used this app for a while. Sometimes, in the case like you mentioned, I might click it back down to -1.7 or something and split the difference slightly, but usually I try to go for green as a starting point for tweaking. And if it doesn't seem like it's going green or stuck red/blue or the numbers just seem wonky, I'll try to forget the "data" and set the camber to what feels good

 

[The Almighty Snark]

@JamKart22 Yep that camber sounds about right, that's roughly where I ended up.

 

[RasmusP]

This is especially noticeable in powerful rear-wheel drive cars, 500Nm of torque on a car with one rear drive wheel with +ve camber, and you are gone.
even TC will not save you.

Yep! That's why I went for green camber with the Lister Storm all around and then 3 clicks more negative at the rear and 3 clicks less negative on the fronts.
Giving nicely green fronts while cornering without bumps or kerbs.

And when going over bumps or kerbs, the rears would stay green, while the fronts would go red, giving me grip at the rear and slight understeer.

I had a play on the 911 RSR and was surprised how much it needed to changed from default to get into the green. From memory it was something like -3.5% default and I had to have it around -1.5%. Does this seem about right or have I overcorrected?

Yeah the rsr seems to be quite crazy! No idea why tbh.. The Porsche are a bit weird in general across AC...

If they don't go red in camber extravaganza, it's alright in any case!

 

[The Almighty Snark]

Yep! That's why I went for green camber with the Lister Storm all around and then 3 clicks more negative at the rear and 3 clicks less negative on the fronts.

Hmm that's a good strat, I lowered the RSR a lot for Atlanta and I figured that's why it's going red over the kerbs but that would definitely help it balance out.

Besides, I've always like a slippery rear but it's not the best way to drive these cars!

 

[Kek700]

I'd rather thought i could get a setup perfected over a long period, but have discovered circuits and setup change a lot from circuit to circuit.
Even the Abarth needs, even with it's limited setup, changes from circuit to circuit.

 

[Interslice]

Championship registration is open. Hope you can all make it!

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/2023-rd-ac-racing-club-gt-championship-registration.254282/