rFactor 2 Toban Raceway Park and Howston Dissenter Released

[Paul Jeffrey]

Image Space Incorporated have released two new pieces of content for rFactor 2 in the form of the 1974 Howston Dissenter and popular rFactor 1 track Toban Raceway Park.

While ISI have been busy showing off plenty of sneak peak images relating to the return of rF1 classic Toban for the last few weeks, perhaps the biggest surprise relating to today's new content release is the 1974 spec Howston Dissenter classic stockcar. The Howston was one of the very first image renders shown by ISI way back in 2012 and makes its much delayed debut in the sim today.

Coming in both road course and speedway configurations, the '74 Dissenter is a reasonably powerful low grip addition to the title that should give drivers an interesting challenge when driven at it's limit.

Featuring a straight-cut 4-speed manual transmission with a wide power band offering ample torque to keep you on your toes, the new addition to ISI's stable of home grown content should provide a satisfying driving experience, while at the same time the reasonably forgiving characteristics of the car could well encourage some nice close online racing.

On the circuit front fan favourite Toban Raceway Park has been totally reworked and updated for it;s debut in rFactor 2. Featuring all the usual goodies such as realroad and graphical improvements like upgraded marshals and enhancements to almost every aspect of the circuits details, perhaps the most interesting aspect of the new release can be found in the fine details produced by the team over at ISI. Toban rF2 has been aged significantly since it's rFactor 1 days and the signs of a lack of upkeep are evident in the new release.

The track comes with seven configurations (six layouts): Long, Long 24 Hours, Long Reverse, Medium, Medium Reverse, Short and Short Reverse.



Don't forget to check out exclusive interview with ISI and have a look at our rFactor 2 Racing Club right here on RaceDepartment.

Glad to see the classic Toban Raceway brought "up to date" in rFactor 2? How does the Howston feel? What do you think of the new content? Let us know in the comments section below!

 

[Ville-Samuli Mutanen]

Thank you. Unfortunately I just got a ban on the official RF2 forums for stating Tuttle said it's because I've repeated the same thing many times, however, I've been very, very inactive in that forum as-well as most simracing forums for the past few months and I was hoping that maybe some of the recent RF2 core updates brought core physics engine (pMotor) changes. The issues I pointed out have also been a phenomenon in the ISI pMotor for at-least 15 years now (F1 2002) if not more (SCGT from the 1990s) so I don't understand how they ban me for repeating something that hasn't been dealt with for 15+ years and is in complete contrast to real-life (as-well as other sims). I explained things too, rather than just "trolling", complaining, "flaming", etc.

Sad how they treat their customers and how they don't seem interested in the slightest to discuss things.

For the last 15 years it has been the only "thruth" available. That super-wide limit combined for lightweight feeling cars might be the reason why people think the cars in rF-engines are more slippery than others. I can be quite fast by just rallying through the corners in rF-engines and only thing that stop me doing it is the tyre temperatures. Still you can do it during qualification. You are not loading the tyres to get some grip but just trying to get minimal oversteer through the corner instead. Not too much so you doesn't ruin your exits though.

There are a lot of physics things that rF2 does extremely well but there are also things I'm not convinced. I can deal with it and continue to exploit the loopholes in it though.

 

[Stig Bidstrup]

My thoughts I'll repost here:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!...For not only releasing 3 different layouts but all 3 of those layouts also in reverse. You essentially have released 2 different circuits with 3 layouts each (rather than 1 circuit and 6 layouts) because driving a track in the opposite direction is literally like driving on a different track. Thank you!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regrding the car...It's OK. The car itself is great but, like every car in any iteration of pMotor, it falls victim to some long-time (15+ years) oddities of pMotor such as the following:

- literally having to barely turn the wheel/tyres for the car to go around corners since things behave in an ultra-darty-front-end-and-direction-change as if there is no weight and/or momentum or something - Taking the Nascar cars around Indianapolis and using literally 1/5th or 1/6th the steering/tyre lock/angle as real-life, while still achieving very respectable laptimes (49s if I recall), is a great example of this. You just press some brake during entry, the front-end darts into the corner and the vehicle's direction of travel follows it almost immediately like there's no momentum to bleed off first.

- Yes you're "technically" oversteering, however, the car barely has any slip-angle in relation to the vehicle's direction of travel; or, in other words, the vehicle's direction of travel is way, way too keen on following and travelling along the path where the front-end points to while the rear-end steps out which is completely opposite to real-life as-well as Live For Speed, Netkar Pro, KartKraft (you can easily see this within a few seconds of it's video - that's all that's needed), and to a certain extent Assetto Corsa.

- When the car slides (especially the front) it's almost as if the tyres are hovering above the ground and have lost 90% of the weight pushing them to the ground, or, as if the friction between the tyres and surface has been reduced by 90%. It's a super-low-friction sllliiiddee rather than rubber, tarmac, and weight pressing on the ground during the slide (Assetto Corsa is a great example of this - try a low-grip road-car during front-end slip)

Even when you're gripped and planted, the car/tyres want to always go over the limit so easily in pMotor unless you do a massively, massively slow lap. There is an over-super-sensitivity to the way cars go into slip situations even in a car that may generally be "lazy and soft". Even low grip cars can feel planted in real-life (despite having low total grip). This car (video above) is darting around and changing direction-of-travel like a 300 pound go-kart.

Looking at the steering wheel movements in this video, I would say you are using 270 degree steering wheel lock on your steering wheel ??? am I wrong ? ( not 900 degrees )
270 degree ( windows default ) 270 degree will change the behaviour of any car in any sim,
often see this in Leagues' where everybody wants to WIN, the rear end will get extremely ligth
but that can be compensated for in the setup, that will make any car in any sim drive like a gokart.
I would belive that those who love drifting also use this,because we are taking about a pc game here and not the real world its unfortunately possible to make a 50s or 60s Simcar turn like a gokart
if you know what to do in the setup..I will let my racing buddy @Jarek Kostowski take a look at the video,and I think he will come to near the same conclusion...

 

[DaVeX↯]

...but I think personally its a sinking ship.

Me too!!! Even the last content release can't save it...

 

[Keith Dixon]

My thoughts I'll repost here:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!...For not only releasing 3 different layouts but all 3 of those layouts also in reverse. You essentially have released 2 different circuits with 3 layouts each (rather than 1 circuit and 6 layouts) because driving a track in the opposite direction is literally like driving on a different track. Thank you!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regrding the car...It's OK. The car itself is great but, like every car in any iteration of pMotor, it falls victim to some long-time (15+ years) oddities of pMotor such as the following:

- literally having to barely turn the wheel/tyres for the car to go around corners since things behave in an ultra-darty-front-end-and-direction-change as if there is no weight and/or momentum or something - Taking the Nascar cars around Indianapolis and using literally 1/5th or 1/6th the steering/tyre lock/angle as real-life, while still achieving very respectable laptimes (49s if I recall), is a great example of this. You just press some brake during entry, the front-end darts into the corner and the vehicle's direction of travel follows it almost immediately like there's no momentum to bleed off first.

- Yes you're "technically" oversteering, however, the car barely has any slip-angle in relation to the vehicle's direction of travel; or, in other words, the vehicle's direction of travel is way, way too keen on following and travelling along the path where the front-end points to while the rear-end steps out which is completely opposite to real-life as-well as Live For Speed, Netkar Pro, KartKraft (you can easily see this within a few seconds of it's video - that's all that's needed), and to a certain extent Assetto Corsa.

- When the car slides (especially the front) it's almost as if the tyres are hovering above the ground and have lost 90% of the weight pushing them to the ground, or, as if the friction between the tyres and surface has been reduced by 90%. It's a super-low-friction sllliiiddee rather than rubber, tarmac, and weight pressing on the ground during the slide (Assetto Corsa is a great example of this - try a low-grip road-car during front-end slip)

Even when you're gripped and planted, the car/tyres want to always go over the limit so easily in pMotor unless you do a massively, massively slow lap. There is an over-super-sensitivity to the way cars go into slip situations even in a car that may generally be "lazy and soft". Even low grip cars can feel planted in real-life (despite having low total grip). This car (video above) is darting around and changing direction-of-travel like a 300 pound go-kart.

At the end of the day the majority of people won't be too concerned whether the steering lock is 1/5th different to reality, they don't want to get to wrapped up in reality issues within a 20 quid game that they sit down with at the end of a hard day to unwind

Their main concern is whether that car is fun to drive and essentially it's damn good fun, the same as many other car's in many other game's that have just as many issues

 

[Gijs van Elderen]

My thoughts I'll repost here:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

THANK YOU! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!...For not only releasing 3 different layouts but all 3 of those layouts also in reverse. You essentially have released 2 different circuits with 3 layouts each (rather than 1 circuit and 6 layouts) because driving a track in the opposite direction is literally like driving on a different track. Thank you!

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Regrding the car...It's OK. The car itself is great but, like every car in any iteration of pMotor, it falls victim to some long-time (15+ years) oddities of pMotor such as the following:

- literally having to barely turn the wheel/tyres for the car to go around corners since things behave in an ultra-darty-front-end-and-direction-change as if there is no weight and/or momentum or something - Taking the Nascar cars around Indianapolis and using literally 1/5th or 1/6th the steering/tyre lock/angle as real-life, while still achieving very respectable laptimes (49s if I recall), is a great example of this. You just press some brake during entry, the front-end darts into the corner and the vehicle's direction of travel follows it almost immediately like there's no momentum to bleed off first.

- Yes you're "technically" oversteering, however, the car barely has any slip-angle in relation to the vehicle's direction of travel; or, in other words, the vehicle's direction of travel is way, way too keen on following and travelling along the path where the front-end points to while the rear-end steps out which is completely opposite to real-life as-well as Live For Speed, Netkar Pro, KartKraft (you can easily see this within a few seconds of it's video - that's all that's needed), and to a certain extent Assetto Corsa.

- When the car slides (especially the front) it's almost as if the tyres are hovering above the ground and have lost 90% of the weight pushing them to the ground, or, as if the friction between the tyres and surface has been reduced by 90%. It's a super-low-friction sllliiiddee rather than rubber, tarmac, and weight pressing on the ground during the slide (Assetto Corsa is a great example of this - try a low-grip road-car during front-end slip)

Even when you're gripped and planted, the car/tyres want to always go over the limit so easily in pMotor unless you do a massively, massively slow lap. There is an over-super-sensitivity to the way cars go into slip situations even in a car that may generally be "lazy and soft". Even low grip cars can feel planted in real-life (despite having low total grip). This car (video above) is darting around and changing direction-of-travel like a 300 pound go-kart.

Pmotor: issue? (Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point)

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

Just FYI, I have completed my review of this car at professionalsimracing.com and would appreciate any feedback / corrections. Thanks.

 

[David Dominguez]

My thoughts I'll repost here

I agree with you regarding this car, and perhaps ISI's cars in general, but I don't think that it's really an engine issue, but more a car calibration issue (i include everything with the word "car", from tyres, suspensions, aero, etc).

Devs usually don't like repetitive criticism, I know that as well. Luckily there are other forums like this one where you don't have to deal with them, or with massive fanboys.

 

[Spinelli]

At the end of the day the majority of people won't be too concerned whether the steering lock is 1/5th different to reality, they don't want to get to wrapped up in reality issues...

It's not 1/5th different or off from reality, it's literally like 1/5th of reality. Eg. You need to turn your wheel 135 or 150 degrees to the left in real-life to go around corners on an oval (whether you're on a fast lap or a decent lap) while, under ISI's pMotor, you can literally almost keep the wheel straight - maybe 30 or 50 degrees or something by exploiting these 15+ year pMotor oddities - and to make matters worse, that's while using the absolute slowest steering rack in the garage tuning, on top of that, I was doing some relatively quick times (49s @ Indy). It's reproducible in ever car. The only way to "fakely" try to compensate for this specific issue is to 1. Make your steering rack super slow (but that causes issues when the car isn't doing weird things due to the fact you now have such a slow steering rack) and 2. add so much understeer to your setup (suspension, diff, brake bias) that there's almost no such thing as rear-slip and you have a massively unbalanced car (understeer) killing your laptimes as-well as tyres all in the sake of trying to "hide" a glaring physics engine issue.

Anyways, I just would like to see ISI focus on physics engine work - source code stuff (or even a totally new physics engine from scratch like Kunos admitted he had to do to eradicate some issues in the Netkar Pro engine which couldn't be fixed just from updating the then current engine). Mods/cars are always at the mercy of the core source code physics of any game/sim even though some of the better cars are able to hide a given physics engine's weak points better than other cars/mods.

 

[Ville-Samuli Mutanen]

Mods/cars are always at the mercy of the core source code physics of any game/sim even though some of the better cars are able to hide a given physics engine's weak points better than other cars/mods.

But, but.. ..you mean taking the hyper-sensitiveness away? Cars wouldn't be as exciting to drive and then we HC guys would be screaming "arcade" or "simcade" on every single portal we can find..

Seriously speaking I can't see them starting from scratch ever. That would just take way too much time. Way too much potential to possibly be wasted. Once again my hopes are set to "not rF3" if it would see the light of day some time in the future.

 

[Hsmmer]

Just FYI, I have completed my review of this car at professionalsimracing.com and would appreciate any feedback / corrections. Thanks.

That is okay review

Good lap in this at San Paulo is 2 seconds + faster.


Spin, why would you think you would get banned constantly bringing your philosophy into multiple threads at multiple sites. lol

 

[Daiman Patel]

Toban and Dissenter events on the way, next week! ( @TTupsi ) Keep your eyes peeled in the rF2 club events section.

 

[Ari Antero]

That is okay review

Good lap in this at San Paulo is 2 seconds + faster.


Spin, why would you think you would get banned constantly bringing your philosophy into multiple threads at multiple sites. lol

Spinelli has passion to his hobby and some other guys has that too. Guiller is one of those guys. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...Now-Available!?p=417862&viewfull=1#post417862 Nobody can not claim that his opinion is not right, what happens? Yes, fanboys goes to maximum attach, Guiller reply`s to challenge: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...Now-Available!?p=418100&viewfull=1#post418100 and Guiller is banned, lol. Constructive Criticism is simply not welcome in ISI forums and do never underestimate the power of ISI fanboys

 

[DaVeX↯]

Spinelli has passion to his hobby and some other guys has that too. Guiller is one of those guys. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/28445-Toban-Raceway-Park-Now-Available!?p=417862&viewfull=1#post417862 Nobody can not claim that his opinion is not right, what happens? Yes, fanboys goes to maximum attach, Guiller reply`s to challenge: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/28445-Toban-Raceway-Park-Now-Available!?p=418100&viewfull=1#post418100 and Guiller is banned, lol. Constructive Criticism is simply not welcome in ISI forums and do never underestimate the power of ISI fanboys

As Architect I approve every single word from Guiller, I have noticed this too but as already said, no way to discuss with fanboys...
Spinelli also, have my moral support, he was the one improved my rF2 fps max value thanks to his research on correct values for AMD and Nvidia cards...

 

[Szymon Olizarowicz]

Okay, I have to say that focusing on structural properties of bloody buildings doesn't seem like constructive criticism, unless it was an important part of the actual sim in question. Doesn't warrant a ban in any way, but I can also understand the frustration of moderators.

 

[Ville-Samuli Mutanen]

Spinelli has passion to his hobby and some other guys has that too. Guiller is one of those guys. http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/28445-Toban-Raceway-Park-Now-Available!?p=417862&viewfull=1#post417862 Nobody can not claim that his opinion is not right, what happens? Yes, fanboys goes to maximum attach, Guiller reply`s to challenge: http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/28445-Toban-Raceway-Park-Now-Available!?p=418100&viewfull=1#post418100 and Guiller is banned, lol. Constructive Criticism is simply not welcome in ISI forums and do never underestimate the power of ISI fanboys

To be honest.. ..even the buildings looks bad like the track overall, that right there has to be most genius trolling I've ever seen. That guy just cannot be serious..

 

[Ari Antero]

To be honest.. ..even the buildings looks bad like the track overall, that right there has to be most genius trolling I've ever seen. That guy just cannot be serious..

As long time member of ISI forums I can read between the lines who that guy is and I can assure you that he is serious, tracks and buildings are his passion.

 

[DaVeX↯]

Better buildings...better fps...

 

[Keith Dixon]

I swear down the ignore button was the greatest feature ever invented, now I can sit down and quietly enjoy my buildings and my car in my "game"

 

[Emery]

Just FYI, I have completed my review of this car at professionalsimracing.com and would appreciate any feedback / corrections. Thanks.

Since the car does have the note "use with build XXXX or later", you might want to reassess when the proper build is released (likely within 5 days). Tim said that the new build will affect AI behavior.

From other bits & pieces I've seen posted, that can mean anything from "drive more realistically with throttle/brake" to "properly obeys flag rules on ovals". I do know ISI has been working on the latter. We just don't know until the build arrives.

 

[Kevin Knorpp]

Excellent point, Emery, I will also note that immediately as well that may improve with new build. Thanks!