Reiza Hints at the Future - rFactor 2 Engine to be used in 'Reiza 2018'?

Paul Jeffrey

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Reiza Studios Teaser Image .jpg

Reiza Studios have released an interesting teaser on social media recently, hinting at "some exciting new things coming up on the horizon"..

Now to my eye this teaser image looks very much like a Reiza game using the rapidly improving rFactor 2 gMotor2 game engine, potentially hinting for the very first time that the upcoming and under development "Reiza 2018" project could be taking further advantage of the already close relationship between Reiza Studios original rFactor developers Image Space Incorporated.

Although purely speculation at this point, it is still rather refreshing to hear (or see) some news from Reiza Studios following wrapping of development of their Automobilista title, and this could well be the very first early signs of what's been going on behind the scenes of the well regarded Brazilian development team.

Now I'm only speculating that this is the rFactor 2 engine here, and frankly I could be well wide of the mark with this one... so I'll leave it to you to throw around your opinions in the comments section below!

Reiza Studios Teaser Image Twitter.jpg


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What do you make of the cryptic clue from Reiza? Looking forward to the new project? Let us know in the comments section below!
 
Reiza did not say what the pic was.

Is it a port of the Metalmoro to rF2?

Is it some mucking around with DoF that they are teasing us with for AMS2?

It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the final DLC, given that we think the car in the pic is one we already have, but we still can't say for sure.

What I can say to people who are leaping to the conclusion that Reiza will use S397 graphics engine for AMS2 is (copied from other thread here): Horrible idea in my opinion. If I were Reiza, I would stay as far away from S397 and rF2 as possible at the retail level. Why tarnish your perfectly polished product by associating it with (making your customers deal with) a still-terrible product from a typical user experience perspective. Reiza can run circles around S397 in almost every way that counts.

If we consider both rF2 and AMS as evolutionary of rF1, AMS is superior in every single way except for the graphics required for real weather and day/night transitions. Superior--really? Yes, because even though rF2 has some advanced technologies compared to AMS, none of them are implemented properly or consistently. Everything that AMS has implemented works well. It is a much better base to evolve from, first with a new graphics engine and then by incrementally adding more technologies that were for whatever reasons not easy to do or impossible in the current engine.

Others will disagree, but as a single example of what I am talking about, I would rather have somewhat rudimentary graphics for dirt and grass on the car tires, but have plausible grip and tire temps when you go off track that put up with the ridiculous rF2 situation of having the sound of gravel sticking on the tires when come back on track after an off, but no graphic reflection of that, inconsistent and often implausible grip off track and when you return to track, and a bugged tire temps situation that for 5 years or so has seen the tires almost start on fire from excessive heat as you slide across wet grass.

Sorry, but Reiza would have either not released that feature, or taken about five days to fix it, not five years. There are at least a dozen examples like the one above that I don't have time to elaborate here, but it is a consistent and common theme. Reiza programs the things that matter that you can see and feel at a level that impresses and is within the range of adjust-ability of our hardware (PC and controllers). ISI launched a science experiment that more often than not was an over-reach resulting in one or two gem elements mixed in with a bunch of inconsistent and unpolished crap. It is so frustrating because when all the stars align, the gems outshine anything else out there. But when the gems are 10% of the product, it results in the poor reception and sales that we all know have plagued rF2 since the beginning. Reiza needs a product with some mass appeal now that they have polished AMS to its ultimate extent. The AMS base is perfect as a starting point to add consumer appeal with better graphics. That then allows further technical development for us hard core sim freaks AND the development of more widely popular racing series, games, achievements, whatever is needed to generate sales to people who aren't so exacting, but still might appreciate plausible, credible, highly polished presentation and product. That seems to still be at least a couple of years away for rF2, if it ever arrives. (See desperately needed new UI announced how long ago that still hasn't arrived?)

All Reiza really needs is a new graphics engine to continue on the superior path they are already on. If that's the rF2 engine from S397, they can choose it. Given the generally appalling and inconsistent graphics performance from rF2 since its inception, I would be shocked if that was the best choice. And unless ISI and S397 programmers are all incompetent (I do not believe that), getting the lighting, shadows and other important elements optimized seems to be either impossible or incredibly difficult compared to other graphics engines.

I would like S397 and Reiza to collaborate on some items technically, if they think it is mutually beneficial. Obviously the code base has similarities for some items. Closer actual integration of the products would be disastrous for Reiza in my opinion.
 
That flat terrain isn't very promising, it's an ISI inheritance for sure.

Terrain is an artistic choice by track maker. Nothing in the gMotor engine prevents from exploring non-flat terrains. AMS has done it already with 3D grass.

I won't argue which platform is easier to mod and work with. It might well be that Unreal is ultimately easier. But the choice isn't between having rF2 engine or Unreal, the choice is either rF2 engine or wait for several more years with current engine. Even when the first rumors came out about Reiza 2017 and Unreal engine years ago, I was sure it would not be a realistic transition for a small team to make in a year or two.
 
All Reiza really needs is a new graphics engine to continue on the superior path they are already on. If that's the rF2 engine from S397, they can choose it. Given the generally appalling and inconsistent graphics performance from rF2 since its inception, I would be shocked if that was the best choice. And unless ISI and S397 programmers are all incompetent (I do not believe that), getting the lighting, shadows and other important elements optimized seems to be either impossible or incredibly difficult compared to other graphics engines.

Back in 2015 for Reiza's crowdfunding campaign, they were advertising that their next title would be using a DX12 engine.

I cannot for the life of me fathom why they would even consider rF2's ancient graphics engine that only just recently, sort of got a DX11 upgrade.

With AMS development having ceased, aside from 1 last major manufacturer dlc pack that Reiza has gone into radio silence about for the past 2 years, I dont see them continuing development on AMS by wasting time working on a minor graphic update as in the teased picture.

Keep the physics and development that has gone into the all of the features, but move onto greener pastures as far as graphics go.
 
Have to say I don't really get the obsession with Unreal Engine that seems to be developing lately amongst simracers. It's especially bizarre given that I still remember how many people were against the idea when developers first started playing with the possibility of going the UE4 way.

I mean I'm certainly not against using UE4 in sims, it's obviously a possible path forward, but from a "game consumer" point of view, I honestly couldn't care less if a game decides to use UE4 or take any other path. I think many people seem to be under the impression using UE4 automatically gives the game photorealistic graphics and great performance on a wide range of PCs, but that's not really the case - it might make it easier or harder from certain aspects, but game design still matters. You can have terribly looking and performing game in UE4 as well. As long as the engine offers what the developers are looking for and the game gets the polish it needs, it doesn't really matter much for the end user what the choice was. Besides, we haven't even seen a single sim using UE4 just yet.
 
  • ronniej

Reiza did not say what the pic was.

Is it a port of the Metalmoro to rF2?

Is it some mucking around with DoF that they are teasing us with for AMS2?

It doesn't appear to have anything to do with the final DLC, given that we think the car in the pic is one we already have, but we still can't say for sure.

What I can say to people who are leaping to the conclusion that Reiza will use S397 graphics engine for AMS2 is (copied from other thread here): Horrible idea in my opinion. If I were Reiza, I would stay as far away from S397 and rF2 as possible at the retail level. Why tarnish your perfectly polished product by associating it with (making your customers deal with) a still-terrible product from a typical user experience perspective. Reiza can run circles around S397 in almost every way that counts.

If we consider both rF2 and AMS as evolutionary of rF1, AMS is superior in every single way except for the graphics required for real weather and day/night transitions. Superior--really? Yes, because even though rF2 has some advanced technologies compared to AMS, none of them are implemented properly or consistently. Everything that AMS has implemented works well. It is a much better base to evolve from, first with a new graphics engine and then by incrementally adding more technologies that were for whatever reasons not easy to do or impossible in the current engine.

Others will disagree, but as a single example of what I am talking about, I would rather have somewhat rudimentary graphics for dirt and grass on the car tires, but have plausible grip and tire temps when you go off track that put up with the ridiculous rF2 situation of having the sound of gravel sticking on the tires when come back on track after an off, but no graphic reflection of that, inconsistent and often implausible grip off track and when you return to track, and a bugged tire temps situation that for 5 years or so has seen the tires almost start on fire from excessive heat as you slide across wet grass.

Sorry, but Reiza would have either not released that feature, or taken about five days to fix it, not five years. There are at least a dozen examples like the one above that I don't have time to elaborate here, but it is a consistent and common theme. Reiza programs the things that matter that you can see and feel at a level that impresses and is within the range of adjust-ability of our hardware (PC and controllers). ISI launched a science experiment that more often than not was an over-reach resulting in one or two gem elements mixed in with a bunch of inconsistent and unpolished crap. It is so frustrating because when all the stars align, the gems outshine anything else out there. But when the gems are 10% of the product, it results in the poor reception and sales that we all know have plagued rF2 since the beginning. Reiza needs a product with some mass appeal now that they have polished AMS to its ultimate extent. The AMS base is perfect as a starting point to add consumer appeal with better graphics. That then allows further technical development for us hard core sim freaks AND the development of more widely popular racing series, games, achievements, whatever is needed to generate sales to people who aren't so exacting, but still might appreciate plausible, credible, highly polished presentation and product. That seems to still be at least a couple of years away for rF2, if it ever arrives. (See desperately needed new UI announced how long ago that still hasn't arrived?)

All Reiza really needs is a new graphics engine to continue on the superior path they are already on. If that's the rF2 engine from S397, they can choose it. Given the generally appalling and inconsistent graphics performance from rF2 since its inception, I would be shocked if that was the best choice. And unless ISI and S397 programmers are all incompetent (I do not believe that), getting the lighting, shadows and other important elements optimized seems to be either impossible or incredibly difficult compared to other graphics engines.

I would like S397 and Reiza to collaborate on some items technically, if they think it is mutually beneficial. Obviously the code base has similarities for some items. Closer actual integration of the products would be disastrous for Reiza in my opinion.
Well said, and I agree for most part, as I have had some great driving experiences with RF2 and thought wow, this has come pretty close as to what I would expect, so the physics have the potential. My question is (and I've always thought) can the physics part of the engine be separated from the graphics part?

Just the fact that Reiza could do what they did with the RF1 engine, would leave me to believe that Reiza (and Niels) could do wonders with the "science project" of the RF2 physics engine. Or am I way off base here?
 
Well said, and I agree for most part, as I have had some great driving experiences with RF2 and thought wow, this has come pretty close as to what I would expect, so the physics have the potential. My question is (and I've always thought) can the physics part of the engine be separated from the graphics part?

Just the fact that Reiza could do what they did with the RF1 engine, would leave me to believe that Reiza (and Niels) could do wonders with the "science project" of the RF2 physics engine. Or am I way off base here?
At the end of day I think we are all way off base lol we are speculating over a blurred pic...
 
I remember some people said the same thing with SimBin using rF1's engine in the past before releasing GTR 1 & 2 - now look at it, GTR2 is still one of the best. As long as REIZA knows what they are doing with the engine - I think they can make a difference.
 
Moving to an up-to-date graphic engine, wouldn't it be better for Reiza?
They already have solid foundations with FFB and Physics, so why not to move to UE4, for example, and bring the graphics to another level?

I understand moving to gMotor2 is easier for them, but in 2018 perhaps is better to move forward rather just doing a small step ahead.
Clearly, if they manage to take the best out of gMotor2, kudos to them.
 
It has the blue tint so its rF2 engine. Havent tested in a while and i heard it got better performance wise but it was always heavy for me on triples. Both AC, AMS and other titles i run max settings but not in rF2. For example if the cars have some detail to them then i get tons of stutter. I run usually like 10 cars on medium quality which make them look pretty bad, but i dont care as i drive, but in AMS i have a 30 grid race without a dip under 60. That is impossible in rF2 for me. Oh, and i cant have shadows on at all with triples (well, low, but...) which is a bit...

Dont get me wrong, the feeling of driving in rF2 is unmatched in my humble opinion and i do need a new PC, so... Im sure Reiza will work their magic with the engine and make it rock. :cool:
 
I think which ever direction Reiza decides upon, they'll make it work....and very well.
To this day, I still cannot believe AMS was based on any part of the old RF1.
The cars actually feel like cars should in AMS.
The guys at Reiza Studios have really impressed me with their ability extract the maximum.
 

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