Real vs Sim: A Legendary Experience at the 'Green Hell'

[MarkR]

Fabulous read @Paul Jeffrey the real enthusiasm and joy shines through. That first real drive of the Nordschleife is a great feeling isn't it? The even better news is that feeling never really wears off no matter how many times you go. You had a good instructor too, lots of qualify description, "feel the compression" where to position the car etc which are all the cues you need to learn the track for real. In my opinion, you did this all the right way with RSR and good quality instruction. I was lucky enough to live an hour or so away from the 'ring for a few years when it was far less busy and an awful lot cheaper, and I've been back a few times since, often with a trip to Spa on the way.

It's great to catch the real car / trackday / instruction bug but just be prepared for sim racing to look exceptionally cheap, in financial terms, by comparison. If you move on to using your own car on the track and enjoy a few laps the cost of a fancy DD wheel will be gone in one outing - track fees, tyres, brakes, maintenance, track insurance (if you bother).

The Golf R is a great car to start your adventure in too, fast but about as safe as it gets too. My previous Cupra 280, pretty much the same car but FWD only (my daily driver at the time but it still did the odd track day) was good fun on track, especially on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres. As for the DSG vs Manual gearbox that's another whole debate but the DSG does mean you can concentrate more on the track and still manually downshift if you want the extra engine braking - I doubt many people are quicker with a manual. The only downside with the VAG cars is the stability nanny is never really fully off no matter what the onboard settings say, probably a good thing in a road car.

If the bug has really bitten I can recommend a few cheaper and easier ways to get another fix:

+ Cadwell Park is called as known as "the Mini-Nürburgring" for good reason. 8/10ths of the fun and a lot closer to home, the jump over The Mountain is always exciting.

+ RenaultSport provide great support for track days and the RS Clio's and Megane's are an affordable way into track days etc, they often have a range of RS cars at events for you to try out too.

+ Porsche Driving School at Silverstone is fabulous, I've been a few times and was there a couple of weeks ago for a Cupra launch event and they know how to make events fun and track time enjoyable.

+ Motorsport Events https://www.motorsport-events.com/ are a fabulous company to deal with if you want friendly affordable track days with great instructors. Consistently the safest track days I've been on and plenty of track time and space to learn and go flat out once confidence is built.

Enjoy the real track, it's a fun, if slightly expensive, journey!

 

[mantasisg]

Seems like you guys had tons of good time

As for interest in realism. Obviously no sim title was, is or will ever be like real life. But I think the mechanics of vehicle handling should be possible to get more than just close to real life. And graphics + sound can get great just enough.

 

[Andy_J]

Fantastic to read about. Nice one. I have never done it in a car. But I have done it on a GSXR750 and that was epic.

 

[thepharcyde]

Nice. The dream of milliions motorsports lovers.

Just don't crash

 

[marek2209]

Oh man, that sounds so f*ing awesome
I hope that on one day, I will be able to make this dream come true for me, too
So please give notice when you will go on your next trip there

So you guys have been driving on the Nordschleife trackday/"Touristenfahrten" or have you been "alone" on the track? (didn't watch the vid yet --> at work)

P.S. Still, there are some vendors which offer a lower insurance excess than 26k for the Golf R

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

We were far far from alone on the track @marek2209 . It's quite intimidating having all these racers on a crowdy circuit. Would love a clear run one day on an empty track without having to look in your mirrors

 

[Deleted member 241736]

So true, amen to those two statements. Thank you Paul.
I love SIM driving and drive my rig almost every day, but I also done real track days.
Please, I hope I will never read again in this and other forum, sim x is just like the real thing, no it is not! Not even close.
Our hobby is amazing as is, love it to bits, but not the same as the real thing.

Not reaching the RL experience in a sim never nearby means also not investing much bucks in a rig. In other words trash your perfect lap times to the fire it‘s worthless (sry ACC and Nissan academy guys)

 

[MarcG]

Sounds fantastic, thanks for sharing

 

[Nick Hill]

@Paul Jeffrey ...dude, that was awesome! So glad you posted the video, what a dream come true! I kid you not, my heart was racing. Considering this was your first time on what is probably the scariest track (or among the scariest tracks) in the world, I could not believe how "on it" you were.

I have been fortunate enough to do a few track days lately (hopefully more to come) and then got to try out an older F2000-type car just the other day. I am now on the hunt for a Formula Vee (could be a long term search/project, but I think there's an excellent possibility I end up doing it).

I'll tell you something...there is no replacement for the real thing. Why would I be taking the time and trouble to get on the real track if that weren't the case, right? But I'll tell you something else...it would be a massive mistake (for simmers and non-simmers alike) to discount the value of a home sim racing setup as it relates to real world prep. In my (admittedly limited) real world experience, sim experience has massive amounts of carry over to the real world. There are things that just can't be conveyed in a sim...for that stuff, there is no replacement for real world experience. But there is SO much about performance/competition driving that sims can teach you, I think you would be a fool not to make a home sim setup a part of your overall "investment portfolio" (you can try that on your wives/girlfriends - "this is an investment, honey").

My follow on advice to that (again, working with admittedly limited real world experience) is that I wouldn't get tunnel focused on one sim. I'm not advocating sitting down for 30 minutes and driving across 6 different sims... dedicate the time/effort to evaluate if a given sim "speaks to you" and then do some leaderboard competitions and see if you can climb the ladder. This will require you to really tune in and "listen" to what the sim is telling you. Over time, do this across maybe 3 sims minimum (no need to rush, just don't get religious and become stuck on one, that's my whole point). Each sim speaks a slightly different dialect...having to tune into those subtle differences I think is vital - when you get to the real track, you'll need to recognize and adapt again. If/when you're in that position, I think you'll have a big confidence boost knowing you've "tamed" multiple sims. You'll tune into the real thing and adapt accordingly (given time).

Sorry for the ramble, just my 2 cents!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

The graphics look good on this. What settings you on?

Like we can afford the specs and rig on this one

 

[Jopamir]

@Paul Jeffrey, you nailed it. Perfect description of that marvelous, experience we had (scaring briefing's pale faces / runs to the toilette apart ehehe )
Cheers

 

[Ricoow]

Like we can afford the specs and rig on this one

200 euros, temporary rig tho.

Considering this was your first time on what is probably the scariest track (or among the scariest tracks) in the world

For me, the moment I realize exactly this, 'holy s, I'm actually at the ring for my first ever track experience' came after the first adrenaline kick of flooring it. Such a scary but awesome feeling!

 

[Patrik Marek]

so when do you repeat this in race car ??

race car pushes this onto another level, although I'm not sure I would do it on Nordschleife. The noise, he smell of petrol, getting hot in the car ( no AC haha!) , but more then anything else the way how race car grips. Even the slightlies of inputs are immediately felt

I've only done 2 race cars in my life, but I'm hungry for more. I wished I could do this in canada more easlily , so that I didn't have to fly to Czech Republic to do this

this was what I was driving last, wanted to put together a small thread about it here, but it was all bit rushed, and things like not having my laptime and onboard makes me sad ( what was I thinking)

I can't recommend this enough to everyone, even if its' only 3 laps or so ( I did 10 )

 

[Jopamir]

I wish I had have less traffic on my run, I had constant "Go right, fast cars coming" said Juan, the awsome RSR instructor, more times than I can remember (nice I had some good experience from backmarking in Simracing - Thanks RD club races for that )

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

So true, amen to those two statements. Thank you Paul.
I love SIM driving and drive my rig almost every day, but I also done real track days.
Please, I hope I will never read again in this and other forum, sim x is just like the real thing, no it is not! Not even close.
Our hobby is amazing as is, love it to bits, but not the same as the real thing.

It's not close, but at the same time, it is amazing how good practice is actually is. Like I said in the premium forum last year, I don't have a driving license, virtually all my driving have been in the virtual world. But still, the times I've been racing IRL I've been surprisingly competitive. My main issue is the feel of the brake pedal, and the fact that I have to take care when shifting gears. Downshifting is the main issue.

 

[Cote Dazur]

It's not close, but at the same time, it is amazing how good practice is actually is.

Absolutely, as far as learning tracks, driving a car similar to what you will really drive, it is a great tool and will speed up your learning curve. This is not the same as saying it is just like the real thing, which is not the case.

Still for most of us, it is the closest we will ever get and that is already fantastic, as our mind will feel the gap and the immersion for me sometime is puzzling.
VR is a big help and lately the addition of tactile for road vibration in my seat and wheel complement the FFB nicely and makes me reach new level of immersion.

 

[manu68]

Very happy for you to see that you got this fantastic opportunity.
The real thing on track is indeed something very special.
I had myself the opportunity to drive a 911 gt3 cup with slicks on track.

I just can not describe the feeling.
Just epic, but a bit scary too.
I just don't know how the pilot can race with these beasts .
Everything is just brutal.

And this was "just" a 911 gt3

Simulation can not reproduce the real thing, but simulation is nowodays a fantastic hobby .

 

[hazardic]

yeah been here 6-7 aug too - in ring taxi and on my own car - basically on "golf on steroids"
now i have this on my back lol

 

[Case_]

Very envious. I don't have many things on my "bucket list", but this one is definitely on there, even if quite unlikely to happen. Nordschleife is the best track there is.

Well done.

 

[Rob Every]

I did this many years ago

And rather unfortunately found out I got car sick while driving. Bubble burst in every way.

I did Cadwell, Nordschliefe and Snetterton, And on the first two it was awful, Cadwell I lasted about 4 laps before feeling very sick and in Germany it was a bit longer,. but still a huge wasted trip and lost a lot of money.

My advice, try karting first, if you get sick doing that, you will get sick in a car